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-- What happened to Lightning Records?
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tiesto, sander kleinenberg, lucien foort, avb, ferry, gielen, talla 2xlc. Where would they be if mp3's of their sets had not got around then again, i bet dj maytag never took that into account.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag Ppl with no respect for the music that rip it off is likely to be a main casue of it. I think Lightning/Bonzai is going to be the first of many that are going to fall this year if illegal filesharing continues.

Im not about to rule out the possibility that MP3's may do damage to certaina spects of the music industry (I dont believe so in this case but anyway...) however I dont think you understand that there is no possible way that MP3's can be the sole cause of the decline opf lighting records and/or any other record labels. Thats an ignorant and misnformed opinion. Also the comeback "whatever makes you sleep easier" is getting a little tired as a reply to a discussion, dont you have any other valid points to support your view?

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Originally posted by T_2199 How many ppl in America would know Trance without mp3??!! Without mp3 tiesto + many others big djs would be almost unknown!

And you've come right back with an even more ridiculous comment!

I've been BUYING trance compilations, mix CD's, and records since 1992, thank you. I did very well for myself sifting thru the record shelves finding things I liked, without ANY help from the internet or music stealing. Bonzai was also a name I knew a decade ago, and I am saddened to see them go.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag And you've come right back with an even more ridiculous comment! I've been BUYING trance compilations, mix CD's, and records since 1992, thank you. I did very well for myself sifting thru the record shelves finding things I liked, without ANY help from the internet or music stealing. Bonzai was also a name I knew a decade ago, and I am saddened to see them go.

Are you going to answer my question or would you just like to dodge it like you have so far?

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Originally posted by torontotrance tiesto, sander kleinenberg, lucien foort, avb, ferry, gielen, talla 2xlc. Where would they be if mp3's of their sets had not got around then again, i bet dj maytag never took that into account.

I understand the argument that many DJ's have gotten more exposure due to mp3 sharing, and that's great for them personally, but not so much for the record labels.

If you triple your exposure, that helps support a DJ who can make big bucks playing at gigs, but that increase means NOTHING if it's due to a quantity of people who aren't going to buy the music (and you could even argue that the "well, it's not gonna harm anyone" attitude could be "infecting" the original customer base, furthur shrinking the number of paying customers.)

So in the case of many DJ's, they'll agree that mp3 has helped them, but press furthur and I bet they'll tell you it's at a loss to their own record sales.

maytag, you're a moron! how the hell am i supposed to keep up with new trance releases when i live in the USA??? there are just 3 or 4 vinyl stores in this metropolitan area of 3 million and none of 'em care to stock trance. so i have to go order online..and if i don't know what the records sounds like then why would i pay $12 each to buy them??

and be more creative..don't name yourself after a dishwasher.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Are you going to answer my question or would you just like to dodge it like you have so far?

I think I illustrated my point quite nicely. If increasing awareness of something comes at it's detriment, I'd rather NOT increase it's awareness.

Record store were carrying trance a decade ago. Magazines were being printed a decade ago. All the information needed to find out about trance and other forms of underground dance music were there, long before the internet boom and even longer before the file sharing revolution.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag I think I illustrated my point quite nicely. If increasing awareness of something comes at it's detriment, I'd rather NOT increase it's awareness. Record store were carrying trance a decade ago. Magazines were being printed a decade ago. All the information needed to find out about trance and other forms of underground dance music were there, long before the internet boom and even longer before the file sharing revolution.

You haven't answered anything. All you gave were your own assumptions and opinions. No facts.

BTW - why are you hosting trance mp3s in your sig if you're against them?

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Originally posted by Excite maytag, you're a moron! how the hell am i supposed to keep up with new trance releases when i live in the USA??? there are just 3 or 4 vinyl stores in this metropolitan area of 3 million and none of 'em care to stock trance. so i have to go order online..and if i don't know what the records sounds like then why would i pay $12 to buy it?? and be more creative..don't name yourself after a dishwasher.

There were ZERO dedicated vinyl shops in my metropolitan area of half a million in 1992. There were however, a few independent stores that stocked a number of CD's and the occasional vinyl. Also, there were a number of bookstores that carried magazines that had reviews of different releases.

Often times, I had NO idea what the CD's sounded like that I was buying a deacde ago. I pretty much had to go by trial and error until I got a feel for what I liked. After a short period, I could gauge the quality of a CD by the tracklisting, and often times I was surprised to find that I liked the tracks by the artists I DIDN'T already know better than the ones I knew!

This was all LONG before file sharing, mind you.

As far as now, why don't you try shopping at online sources that have audio samples? Most major stores do have samples of the records they sell, so you can know what you're buying.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You haven't answered anything. All you gave were your own assumptions and opinions. No facts. BTW - why are you hosting trance mp3s in your sig if you're against them?

I agree.

Also - about the other forms of information. You can't deny that there is anohter medium of information as efficient and widespread as the internet and Tranceaddict when it comes to trance. I've learnt more on this site about trance than I wouldve ever learnt in reading a full yearly subscription to any magazine. With all the stuff ive read on here ive become more familiar with the music i like and managed to fine tune my tastes. As a result of this if I can find something to buy that suits my tastes - ill buy it even thought i could download it.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You haven't answered anything. All you gave were your own assumptions and opinions. No facts. BTW - why are you hosting trance mp3s in your sig if you're against them?

Ahh, let me catch you up to speed. I am 100% against illegal sharing of individual songs, notably full rips. I'm also against sharing rips of commercial CDs.

Both of the above DO impact sales of records (why buy a vinyl when you can burn a CD and pop it in a CDJ-1000?), compilations (why by a comp when I've already got the best songs from the CD?), and DJ mix CD's (why buy the mix when I can download rips of entire CD?)

The sharing of livesets is a bit of a gray area, but I don't think that they reduce sales of DJ's mix CD's because they're not the same as the ones being sold, and often are of a lower sound quality.

The "hosting" you note that I am doing, is of my own amateur DJ mixes. They are not of any significant mp3 quality (some 96kbps, some 128kbps) and I don't think that someone it going to eschew buying a Tiesto or Oakie mix CD in favor of downloading one of my personal mixes.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag Both of the above DO impact sales of records (why buy a vinyl when you can burn a CD and pop it in a CDJ-1000?), compilations (why by a comp when I've already got the best songs from the CD?), and DJ mix CD's (why buy the mix when I can download rips of entire CD?)

Still in your own mind only.
Give me proof.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Still in your own mind only. Give me proof.

There are a number of DJ's where I live and in surrounding cities that I could point out that DL mp3's and burn them to CD to spin at clubs and parties on CD decks. This isn't just happening around here, I can guarantee that! Shady DJ's doing this IS directly affecting vinyl sales.

TA as a whole should point out a number of people who refuse to buy music. The proof is right here on the site, just look around at similar topics.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag And you've come right back with an even more ridiculous comment! I've been BUYING trance compilations, mix CD's, and records since 1992, thank you. I did very well for myself sifting thru the record shelves finding things I liked, without ANY help from the internet or music stealing. Bonzai was also a name I knew a decade ago, and I am saddened to see them go.

Well I guess you are one of few ppl then... Come on how many ppl listen to trance in ur country?? i mean mainstream not the freaks!! and i know that mp3 damages the pop music like britney spears or something (however who cares if she earns 10 million dollars or 5 million dollars a year) but mp3 helps trance to be spread all over the world!!
And how many ppl go actually to record shops where u can find underground music?! also only a few ones... the internet on the other hand is a great thing to find out what trance is (most ppl have acces to the i-net either ur hairs are blond and ur too stupid to handle a pc)
but i�m not going to arguing with you anymore... it�s senseless! you think you are right and I�m thinking Im right.... we won�t change each other minds.. you won�t change anybodys mind about mp3s on this forum so I would stop arguing, too

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Originally posted by DJMaytag Both of the above DO impact sales of records (why buy a vinyl when you can burn a CD and pop it in a CDJ-1000?),

Because most djs spin with vinyls!
the "real thing"

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Originally posted by T_2199 Well I guess you are one of few ppl then... Come on how many ppl listen to trance in ur country?? i mean mainstream not the freaks!!

Yeah, you're right. I'm one of only 6 ppl in the US that listen to trance!

Seriously, there is an equal number of tranceheads in the US compared to Europe. You're just going to see a much smaller percentage in any given city or area because the US is so big.

Trance was quite popular here during the first big explosion in 1993. I'm sure it got even bigger in 1998.

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Originally posted by T_2199 and i know that mp3 damages the pop music like britney spears or something (however who cares if she earns 10 million dollars or 5 million dollars a year)

OK, Britney Spears does NOT make 10, much less 5 million dollars a year from record sales. She may make a substantial sum from endorsements and touring, but a very slim portion of her income is from record sales.

While Britney (and others) may have record sales that put the dollar amounts into the stratosphere, artists see almost NONE of those dollars. The reason? For every Britney, there are 20+ artists that don't achieve the sales that labels project, so in essence, you have something like the top 5% of artists subsidizing the other 95%. Those top artists raking in the $$$ are the ones that make it financially feasible for labels to sign unknown artist in hopes that 1 out of 100 might make it big and be the next money maker for the company, so that the cycle can continue.

The same can also be said for the dance music industry, but in smaler dollar amounts.

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Originally posted by T_2199 but mp3 helps trance to be spread all over the world!!

what good is it to spread it, if it's contributing to the demise of the industry? what if more and more labels collapse and others stop taking risks by signing unknown artists? That's a sure fire way to REDUCE the number of producers making quality tunes...

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Originally posted by T_2199 And how many ppl go actually to record shops where u can find underground music?!

Exactly my point! People are turning to the internet in lieu of dropping by their local stores, hence being a detriment to the industry.

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Originally posted by T_2199 also only a few ones... the internet on the other hand is a great thing to find out what trance is (most ppl have acces to the i-net either ur hairs are blond and ur too stupid to handle a pc)

I didn't need the internet to find out what trance was. Many others in my area didn't need the internet either. I know it's hard to believe that there was once a time that in order to get music, you had to BUY it... but yes, that's the way it used to work before a new form of theft was invented.

DJMaytag is right, especially about the mix albums and all. Why buy a mix album when you can DL it? Thats what most people do. You don't need hard facts or numbers Mr. Mystery, just talk to some people and see what they say. Majority of the people I talk to haven't bought an album ever since Napster. Others will only buy like 1, once a year while they download 20 others in a month. If you think MP3's have increased sales of GU cd's, for example, then you're living in a fantasy land.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag Yeah, you're right. I'm one of only 6 ppl in the US that listen to trance! Seriously, there is an equal number of tranceheads in the US compared to Europe. You're just going to see a much smaller percentage in any given city or area because the US is so big. Trance was quite popular here during the first big explosion in 1993. I'm sure it got even bigger in 1998. OK, Britney Spears does NOT make 10, much less 5 million dollars a year from record sales. She may make a substantial sum from endorsements and touring, but a very slim portion of her income is from record sales. While Britney (and others) may have record sales that put the dollar amounts into the stratosphere, artists see almost NONE of those dollars. The reason? For every Britney, there are 20+ artists that don't achieve the sales that labels project, so in essence, you have something like the top 5% of artists subsidizing the other 95%. Those top artists raking in the $$$ are the ones that make it financially feasible for labels to sign unknown artist in hopes that 1 out of 100 might make it big and be the next money maker for the company, so that the cycle can continue. The same can also be said for the dance music industry, but in smaler dollar amounts. what good is it to spread it, if it's contributing to the demise of the industry? what if more and more labels collapse and others stop taking risks by signing unknown artists? That's a sure fire way to REDUCE the number of producers making quality tunes... Exactly my point! People are turning to the internet in lieu of dropping by their local stores, hence being a detriment to the industry. I didn't need the internet to find out what trance was. Many others in my area didn't need the internet either. I know it's hard to believe that there was once a time that in order to get music, you had to BUY it... but yes, that's the way it used to work before a new form of theft was invented.

Well I understand ur point! Without mp3 the record sales would be higher that�s for sure..
But I�ve got another argument for you..
What about the students (like me)?! I get 25 Euro from my parents ;(! And I absolutly love trance.. I need new trance tunes every day.. I spend almost all my money for trance (and beer ).. But with 25 Euro a month I can only buy one Double-CD and one Vinyl... And seriously I need to pay my handy and other stuff, too. SO I can might get just one CD.. But I just need Trance to live!! So what you would do?? Buying one CD and listen again, again and again or download some new fresh tunes?! And I spend my money for the tunes I think they deserved it (unknown artrist)...
What�s bad about that?

guys..djmaytag knows everything...why do we bother.

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Originally posted by T_2199 Well I understand ur point! Without mp3 the record sales would be higher that�s for sure.. But I�ve got another argument for you.. What about the students (like me)?! I get 25 Euro from my parents ;(! And I absolutly love trance.. I need new trance tunes every day.. I spend almost all my money for trance (and beer ).. But with 25 Euro a month I can only buy one Double-CD and one Vinyl... And seriously I need to pay my handy and other stuff, too. SO I can might get just one CD.. But I just need Trance to live!! So what you would do?? Buying one CD and listen again, again and again or download some new fresh tunes?! And I spend my money for the tunes I think they deserved it (unknown artrist)... What�s bad about that?

I understand your plight, as I was right there twelve years ago. I was in high schoool earning minimum wage ($4.25 at the time) working only a few hours a week to pay my bills (cigarettes, gas, auto insurance) and had little to spend on anything else. When I did have money to spend, I often had to look at the all the CD's I wanted, and determine which one or two of the 4 or 5 I would buy that week. Often times, I could come back the next week and get one of the ones I passed on. Sometimes those CD's were gone the next week. Sometimes I found them again later, other times I'd find them used even later (which saved me some $$$!)

As it stands now, I have a pretty substantial CD collection and I can't say I really spend too much time thinking about all the ones I missed over the years.

One point that I learned over the years: get one CD a week or every other, and listen to it over and over. I found that in the instances where I would buy more than once CD a week, I would only listen to the better CD, making the second CD almost a waste!

If you want to talk about extreme, try doing this: I wasn't able to find much of the good trance after 1996, so I was stuck listening to a rotation of pretty much ONLY these CD's for several YEARS:

Sasha & Digweed - Nothern Exposure 2 (Westcoast)
Thomas Michaal - West Coast Vibe
The Mix by David Padilla
DJ Energy - Megatones
Dave Ralph - Tranceport II
Trancesylvania 9
Chris Fortier - Alpha

This was pretty much all I listend to from 1997 to 2000, until a trip to South Beach landed me at a record shop where I picked up Trancemster 22 (I knew the series from buying Trancemaster 4 about 7 years prior.) I liked what I heard, and thru that compa and the subsequent releases of that series, I became familiar with artists like Tiesto, Yahel, MIKE, etc. Thru that, I've managed to find other artists and labels I like, without the need to download mp3's.

I buy too many cd's....rofl

gu011-15,18,23
nubreed 2,4
lights out 1

plus many others....with the exception of 11 and 15....i've bought the rest in the last 8 months.

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Originally posted by torontotrance I buy too many cd's....rofl gu011-15,18,23 nubreed 2,4 lights out 1 plus many others....with the exception of 11 and 15....i've bought the rest in the last 8 months.

If you downloaded others, I'd say that you probably haven't bought enough!

Look little boy....you telling me that I download albums....or you trying to say that. I do not download albums, so grow up. Since you have pissed me off....i'll list what i bought in the last 6 months.

Coldcut - Journey's By DJ
forgot to put gu020 in there
WOW - Intensify
Paul Oakenfold - 2 Yrs at Cream
Banco de Gaia - 10 yrs (2 cd)
GU 012
gu013
gu014
gu018
gu023
Nubreed 2
Lights Out 1

Erhm.

Tranceport 2 was released November of 1999. I don't know how you were hammering that one back in 97.

But that's besides the point.

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Originally posted by torontotrance Look little boy....you telling me that I download albums....or you trying to say that. I do not download albums, so grow up.

The odds are pretty good that I'm older than you, so I don't think you should be the one calling me a little boy.

If you don't download albums, then why the hell are you arguing with me? If you're out there buying you're stuff, then you're all good.

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