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-- GRR at CDJs!
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first of all, no matter how rare, how expensive, or how new it is, if its mp3, the sound quality is shit... im all about sound, and when u play to ppl, i stay away from using different type of format of music besides vinyl.. i dont have any problems at all with cd-rs' but i personally dont own any cd-rs' so i dont play em' but i refuse to play mp3s cuz it fucks up the flow of the set(its like if vinyls were the ibiza ocean, mp3s are the hudson river here in nyc...) and i also think that if u cant play a certain track cuz u couldnt get your hands on it for whatever reason(unreleased, rare, too expensive etc) that means u gotta work harder to make it a dope set.. so its more of a challenge for yourself.. and if u accomplish that, then you'll feel good knowing u fully rocked the joint.

lets start the fuck mp3s aliance !!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GRR at CDJs!

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Originally posted by Widget The comments about buying the record second hand and that money not going to the artist is true, I'll admit to that. But downloading the track isn't exactly helping the artist either? Most people (and you may or may not be one of them), once they start downloading rare tracks, it's always easier to continue downloading tracks that aren't rare - it's a bit like a habit. My one point which you aren't answering is that by justifying you playing tracks that are too expensive, you're the one who is defining too expensive. So is US10 too much, but US9.99 okay? The line is very flimsy and easily moved. I just have a problem with people who play downloaded versions of tracks and then try and justify it by hiding behind the comments of a "track is rare", "expensive", etc. As for me being able to afford every record I want, I definitely can't. I'm a grad student at University - I'll just decide to buy records instead of going out sometimes. Downloading tracks is just easier than spending the money (and cheaper), no one will argue with that. If you're happy with doing that, then I doubt anything that I say will change your mind. I've had this discussion with people before and no one changes their minds.

Ok here;s the thing.. you're blowing things way out of proportion here. Like i mentioned before.. this "gig" was a total last minute thing. I dont dj for a living no do i plan to. I do it for fun. Im not making money off it.

Yes, downloading a track is easier.. but if i can get my hands on the vinyl then i will. I myself like the feel of vinyl. But sometimes you dont have the time to get certain tracks. Like with this gig.. i was invited to do it on wed... and there were some tracks that i wanted to play. With a full time job i dont have time to go out vinyl searching round town for those particular vinyl. Sometimes you have to think bout wat the situation is where ppl do this. IF i wanted to be a totally cd dj then why the hell would i spend money on turntables????

The line between what is too expensive and what isnt is very clearly defined for me. For Ayu - M EP.. i got it for roughly 30 dollars. New. So yes.. this purchase was worth it. For Goldenscan.. i got it for 6 bux. And you know how rare this is. So..i would say my limit is bout 30 bux or so not including shipping. I dont feel its justified to pay anymore for a vinyl no matter what unless its gold plated or something. So i hope that answers ur question.

Being a student you know how money can be tight and you have to plan out how you use your finances. Its your choice to spend all your money on vinyl but it isnt mine. To me its a hobby. Vinyl is not a top priority in my life as it seems to be in yours. I have bills to pay, car payments to pay, loans to pay back... you know how it is. How you waste your money is your choice. I just choose to use my hard earned money toward things which have more priority in my life.

Also..i will find it hard to believe that you've never downloaded anything ever. Divx maybe? svcds, vcd, cracked programs, maybe even photocopied a book at school instead of buying the book. These are all pretty much the same situation. By doing any of the above you take profit from the distributor. So if you've NEVER done any of these things or anything similar.. then you are the most law-abiding guy in the world.

Re: Re: Re: GRR at CDJs!

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Originally posted by Widget You want a ferrari, then you work and you buy it when you can afford it. People who realy want ferrari's will go out and buy them. Rubbish. If you really wanted the track to play, then you'd be prepared to pay the money for it. You're giving yourself an advantage over other DJs who have *morals* and thus won't play burnt music. If you're playing CD-Rs, mp3s, using final scratch then you should be doing so with music that you own. Not ripped, burnt tracks that you're too lazy to go out and look for yourself. Your argument about tracks being rare and expensive isn't worth anything. The reason they're expensive is because they're rare, because they weren't released in large quantities and thus every single DJ in the world shouldn't be playing that track. If you argue about ripping tracks off John Digweed's radio sets, he's got those white labels because he's a recognised DJ, who has done his thing for the scene and supported it. If you want to be able to get those same tracks in advance, then earn it. Stop trying to look better than other DJs by spinning rarer tracks and scewing the artists and remixes over. You argue that you only use rips of rare and expensive tracks, lemme guess, but the end of the year you'll decide that $15 is too much for a vinyl, so you'll start ripping the easily available ones. Don't hide behind the "expensive and rare" line. Basis for the story - if you want to play/DJ music publically, own it. and just for the record, I've just bought a copy of Ayu - 'M'. Why? because I think it's an incredible track and I want to be able to play it for people. I don't know about you, but I won't be playing tracks that I haven't bought and own myself.

dude, not everyone can get their hands on limited, rare vinyls. not everyone is as accessible as some of you folks.

As long as one is unable to get it on vinyl(may it be out of stock, limited, rare), it is completely fine to play it on CDR. Blame the labels and the record company for not pressing more and trying to make it limited and special.

Big names get to play whites and promos, most cant get hold of them and love to include them in sets, its fine by all means since it is the dj who decides to play what he wants. It does help to push the same piece of music to their own listeners, this is how music spreads.

As for paying hundred of bucks for a piece of vinyl or EP just to play it, if you are loaded, go ahead and get it, i rather support tons of other producers with the money. if it is slightly more costly and affordable with some saving up, it is ok.

Stupid to get an ferrari when you cant even afford it. you are talking as thou you will get one even if you will save up a lifetime for it.

Get real and put yourselves into others position and give some thought about it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: GRR at CDJs!

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Originally posted by JasK dude, not everyone can get their hands on limited, rare vinyls. not everyone is as accessible as some of you folks. As long as one is unable to get it on vinyl(may it be out of stock, limited, rare), it is completely fine to play it on CDR. Blame the labels and the record company for not pressing more and trying to make it limited and special. Big names get to play whites and promos, most cant get hold of them and love to include them in sets, its fine by all means since it is the dj who decides to play what he wants. It does help to push the same piece of music to their own listeners, this is how music spreads. As for paying hundred of bucks for a piece of vinyl or EP just to play it, if you are loaded, go ahead and get it, i rather support tons of other producers with the money. if it is slightly more costly and affordable with some saving up, it is ok. Stupid to get an ferrari when you cant even afford it. you are talking as thou you will get one even if you will save up a lifetime for it. Get real and put yourselves into others position and give some thought about it.

thank you very much...

Before we go anywhere with argueing, let me state that I have no problem using cd decks. I have a problem with people burn tracks on to cds and spinning them in public. You did not pay for it, its illegal end of story. If its a new track, tough shit, become a better DJ. The people that get promo's/rare vinyls, get them because somehow they are in that position that allows for this to happen. Its called working hard to get to where you want to be.

quote:

if he cannot actually buy them, wtf is wrong with DLing them and playing them, HE CANNOT BUY IT, geez...

Arctic - What are you talking about. That is like saying I cant actually buy this $120,000 car, but I can steal it, change the VIN numbers and so that way its not actually stealing cause I CANNOT BUY IT, thats ridiculous man.

The only CDR's anyone should play (in public) are the ones they paid for, received as promos, or are ones they made themselves and are not yet on vinyl (I would not include reworks etc, unless you have original artist consent). Everything else is theft and when the law finally catches up to technology do you really think that playing a track on CDR, without the above avenues, would be considered legal??

Right now, I guess I just rely on peoples morals.

ps. RIP Lightning Records

pps. The only vinyls I buy second hand are the ones that are no longer available. If they were, its worth the dollar or 2 extra to get it new.

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Originally posted by uwmadtrance I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as you aren't getting paid to play the stuff you burned. Now, a track or two here or there, I don't think is a big deal, but a whole set of burned CDs should not be done. Taking advantage of people with free material is just wrong IMO.

i completely agree

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo Before we go anywhere with argueing, let me state that I have no problem using cd decks. I have a problem with people burn tracks on to cds and spinning them in public. You did not pay for it, its illegal end of story. If its a new track, tough shit, become a better DJ. The people that get promo's/rare vinyls, get them because somehow they are in that position that allows for this to happen. Its called working hard to get to where you want to be. Arctic - What are you talking about. That is like saying I cant actually buy this $120,000 car, but I can steal it, change the VIN numbers and so that way its not actually stealing cause I CANNOT BUY IT, thats ridiculous man. The only CDR's anyone should play (in public) are the ones they paid for, received as promos, or are ones they made themselves and are not yet on vinyl (I would not include reworks etc, unless you have original artist consent). Everything else is theft and when the law finally catches up to technology do you really think that playing a track on CDR, without the above avenues, would be considered legal?? Right now, I guess I just rely on peoples morals. ps. RIP Lightning Records pps. The only vinyls I buy second hand are the ones that are no longer available. If they were, its worth the dollar or 2 extra to get it new.

ok ... lets look at this from another angle. Now let's just talk about old and rare records. The reason they are rare is because there was a limited quanitity and people bought them all. Rare usually means that there is no supply left correct? Now.. since all the supply was purchased by people.. that means that the profit from these initial sales did go to the artist. Artists do not see any profit from any subsequent sale of the record. (ie If the original purchaser sells it off) All profit of that secondhand sale goes directly into the pockets of that person. Now...if a person were to play a rip of that song, how is that stealing from the original artist, WHEN he already received all profits from the record being sold out on initial sales? When ppl sell Ayu-M for 250 bux on ebay.. do u think Ayu sees any of that? i think this is the point that jdat was trying to make.

I just want to make the point that not all people who get rare vinyls are top djs. Many are just regular people like you and me who are at the right place at the right time. They just happen to buy it.

Last thing i want to ask you is if you've ever downloaded any divx, svcds, vcds, cracked programs, photocopied a book, or anything of the sort. If you have.. please do not talk about morals.

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Originally posted by tor8024 i completely agree

totally... ppl.. get it in your head... we were doing it for fun... no money involved... sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by wushuboy ok ... lets look at this from another angle. Now let's just talk about old and rare records. The reason they are rare is because there was a limited quanitity and people bought them all. Rare usually means that there is no supply left correct? Now.. since all the supply was purchased by people.. that means that the profit from these initial sales did go to the artist. Artists do not see any profit from any subsequent sale of the record. (ie If the original purchaser sells it off) All profit of that secondhand sale goes directly into the pockets of that person. Now...if a person were to play a rip of that song, how is that stealing from the original artist, WHEN he already received all profits from the record being sold out on initial sales? When ppl sell Ayu-M for 250 bux on ebay.. do u think Ayu sees any of that? i think this is the point that jdat was trying to make. I just want to make the point that not all people who get rare vinyls are top djs. Many are just regular people like you and me who are at the right place at the right time. They just happen to buy it. Last thing i want to ask you is if you've ever downloaded any divx, svcds, vcds, cracked programs, photocopied a book, or anything of the sort. If you have.. please do not talk about morals.

Fair enough, I can give you the rare records no longer in print. Only problem is the record no longer retains value if it were to be a special re-release 2-3 years down the line. If you got it burnt would you buy it?? I would for sure, if anything to support the artist. This is where I am concerened, because a lot of people would not.

You know what your right. I have downloaded stuff from the Net, but I have not taken my computer and set it up in a mall and showcased that movie for everyone for free. Remember, spin, play, burn, download, whatever it is, just do it in private not in public. But even if your not making money, someone should be, if the music is not yours. (its sad but thats the only way it works)

As for reference to morals, i should have stated TRance Morals (I know cheesy, but still). Im addicted to this music in every facet of my life. If I was president of the world it would be trance 24/7 over loud speakers. Support fucking trance music is what I am trying to say. Fuck hip hop, let it die before trance. BAD BOY RECORDS alive - LIGHTNING RECORDS dead.

I know that its impossible not to download new tunes, trance is our drug and we need it. But we have to make sure, especially cause we are such technological whores and have such access to the newest stuff, that what we believe in and support does not go down because of ignorance, lack of support, and sadly lack of funds. MONEY MONEY MONEY, Makes the trance go round, unless we live on a trance kibbutz.

I hope you understand what I am saying here. Yeah its hypocritical, but really these days you have to pick and choose what you care about and support and as for the rest of it, I dont have the patience or the energy to care anymore. I just dont want our scene to die before it evolves, and we are the ones that keep it alive, so try do everything you can to keep it alive.

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo Fair enough, I can give you the rare records no longer in print. Only problem is the record no longer retains value if it were to be a special re-release 2-3 years down the line. If you got it burnt would you buy it?? I would for sure, if anything to support the artist. This is where I am concerened, because a lot of people would not. You know what your right. I have downloaded stuff from the Net, but I have not taken my computer and set it up in a mall and showcased that movie for everyone for free. Remember, spin, play, burn, download, whatever it is, just do it in private not in public. But even if your not making money, someone should be, if the music is not yours. (its sad but thats the only way it works) As for reference to morals, i should have stated TRance Morals (I know cheesy, but still). Im addicted to this music in every facet of my life. If I was president of the world it would be trance 24/7 over loud speakers. Support fucking trance music is what I am trying to say. Fuck hip hop, let it die before trance. BAD BOY RECORDS alive - LIGHTNING RECORDS dead. I know that its impossible not to download new tunes, trance is our drug and we need it. But we have to make sure, especially cause we are such technological whores and have such access to the newest stuff, that what we believe in and support does not go down because of ignorance, lack of support, and sadly lack of funds. MONEY MONEY MONEY, Makes the trance go round, unless we live on a trance kibbutz. I hope you understand what I am saying here. Yeah its hypocritical, but really these days you have to pick and choose what you care about and support and as for the rest of it, I dont have the patience or the energy to care anymore. I just dont want our scene to die before it evolves, and we are the ones that keep it alive, so try do everything you can to keep it alive.

yes i would still buy it. even tho i have burnt ayu-m and goldenscan - sunrise for example.. i still went out and bought the vinyl. If i feel its worth it then i will buy it as i said before.

Just because you dont showcase the stuff you download for private use in public doesnt change the fact that its still pirated. You are still taking money away from the dvd distributors and software companies. I said it many times .. i did not make any money from djing at the import showoff. YEs you are correct that someone shold be making money...if you hold this to be true.. you should go out and buy the dvd instead of getting the rip. Dont gimme this double standard.

Im glad you see that wat you've said is a bit hyprocritical. I agree that we need to support artists out there.. and i do. I dont know how many times ive said that i buy vinyl as well as use cdr. If you really want to support your artists.. why dont you just donate half your income to them.. im sure they will appreciate it. You're right when we say we have to pick and choose what wat we care about. In my life.. vinyl is not #1.

I hope you recant what you said about me and the other djs that were using cds at that show being theives.

I use cds and vinyl in my sets. To me, no matter what medium you play on, you're basically promoting the song to people. Regardless of royalties and all the monetary issues, isn't the entire point of being a dj getting the music that you love out to the masses? So that they become tranceaddicts as well? I only want to dj so that I can see the reactions of the crowd, make them jump up and down and scream...to the music I love. Getting paid to do it is nice, but I'd rather experience the entire crowd bumping, crowd jumping, as a dj.

I think we're all getting too carried away. The entire point of producers, labels, etc., giving away promos of songs is to push them out to people so that they buy the vinyl, song, album, whatever for themselves. If we play songs that we download, and if we get paid or not, it doesn't really matter because there will be people who say "what's this song?...i want it!!!". As DJ's, we're promoting the music.

You can have your morals about royalties, but to me, I don't really give a damn about that aspect because like it or not, we're helping out the labels, and to a lesser extent, the artists, by playing the song.

I don't understand why the record labels dont set up some sort of mail order thing. They could put a low quality mp3 of the track on their site before release so people listen to it and if they like it they can preorder the track. Then when the vinals are pressed they only need to make the number required. And if interest is high enough second runs can be produced etc. It would cut costs by improving effeciency and allow them to sell more records on popular titles. The way things stand labels are blaming joe public but in reality the way labels think about music has to be changed from the bottom up.

i didn't read this entire thread so maybe it has been brought up already but why do you automatically assume he doesn't have the original CDs?

if you've ever had your music collection stolen at a party, you would probably be playing CDRs also.

another reason for CDRs is so you can create your own compilations with the tracks you want to play and leave the "album filler" tracks out so you don't have to cart around as many discs.

yeah, this dude could have been a ****** but at the same time, he might not have been.

quote:

Originally posted by smallSHEEP I don't understand why the record labels dont set up some sort of mail order thing. They could put a low quality mp3 of the track on their site before release so people listen to it and if they like it they can preorder the track. Then when the vinals are pressed they only need to make the number required. And if interest is high enough second runs can be produced etc. It would cut costs by improving effeciency and allow them to sell more records on popular titles. The way things stand labels are blaming joe public but in reality the way labels think about music has to be changed from the bottom up.

thing is -- there is this "elitist" type of mentality which is really the blame of all this.

[RANT]
FUcK!! JUst put the music out to the masses in whatever SHAPE OR FORM whether it be 12" or CDs! Problem is the music is NOT readily available for people to get. People will say "mail order from online stores"...what the fuck are you smoking man!?!?..do people need to mail order their new Britney Spears single?!? NO! Forecast how many copies will sell as 12" and make the CD singles available as well -- I know people will buy CDs as well (me being one of em!). Not EVERYONE who buys electronica (in our case Trance) SPIN! Stop with this elite shit that only if you are a top DJ you get certain promo shit...sure give it to them first to play BUT have it RELEASED and made available to ANYONE that would want a copy!

ARGH! I hate the way the labels market the music -- I just want the music and I am MORE THAN WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. There will always be the people who will leech (whether it be copying from a friends copy or even from the net), but the labels aren't helping by making only a limited amount of copies!!!

I WANT MY MUSIC!!
[/RANT]

The situation is we love this music, we should support it. Yes its great the tunes get exposure when you play the newest stuff, but make sure in someway there is support flowing backwards as well as forwards.

The labels etc, are not going to change from their old school ways, its the news ones that will, but if everyone is just downloading and burning, the investment and commitment to starting a label is minimum, especially when the profits are minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by wushuboy I hope you recant what you said about me and the other djs that were using cds at that show being theives.

Sorry if I upset you here but it is illegal. Regardless of whether you think its right or wrong, it was someone elses intellectual property and you used it in a public place without their permission.

Please just support what you love.

alright now that my account is FINALLY activated I can start responding. Most likely, I am the one they are talking about as I WAS only spinning cd's at the event and was hogging most of the time away from wushuboy, his friend, and djtecktonic.
There were so many things that I wanted to say but in the interest of keeping my first post from turning into a novel of discussions with everyone, I'll just say the biggest thing on my mind...
first of all, I will not argue that downloading and burnin music to spin keeps artists from making SOME money. But people like Max Graham, Sander, Sasha, Digweed, basically all those guys on balance promote, excession etc. make a MINIMUM of 10,000 US PER GIG. And if you look at their schedules and do the math... they aren't exactly living off foodstamps. For new producers, the mp3 world just makes it hundreds of times easier to distribute their music and get their names and work out to the masses. Sander happens to be my favorite dj, and since he began spinning in LA, I have not missed a single performance. I support him by attending every one of his events and I literally stay in there for his entire 4+ hour sets usually standing and sober so that i don't miss a minute of it.
The reason I love this scene and got into it in the first place is because it's underground. not necessarily in the sense that it's unknown to exist by the general population, but that it was fueled and founded just by the love of the music and the subculture. It had no intentions of being commercial and capitalistic in nature. For this reason I've begun to hate people like Oakenfold who are trying to push it overground and begin to make money off it, because if you notice now.. there are so many low quality trance tracks being made that are just crap because people are just trying to make a buck now (which is why i'm into progressive now). Personally I spin for free, and would spin for free anywhere just because I love music and love to spin. Ultimately what I want to ask you is what is it about now for you, the money or the music?

<---- Happily plays burned CD's on my 1 CDJ100. I do so, because many of the songs I have burned I can't find. Take note, the CDJ100 rests beside two 1200's and $4000 worth of vinyl.

Yes I support my music.

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo The situation is we love this music, we should support it. Yes its great the tunes get exposure when you play the newest stuff, but make sure in someway there is support flowing backwards as well as forwards. The labels etc, are not going to change from their old school ways, its the news ones that will, but if everyone is just downloading and burning, the investment and commitment to starting a label is minimum, especially when the profits are minimum. Sorry if I upset you here but it is illegal. Regardless of whether you think its right or wrong, it was someone elses intellectual property and you used it in a public place without their permission. Please just support what you love.

Then you should consider yourself a theif as well since you downloaded illegal cracked programs and ripped movies. Public or not it is illegal as you say. Do you think just cuz you dont showcase it in public that its right? You are still pirating the stuff. Dont give me this hypocracy and double standard. By your logic you're as much a "theif" as i am. As for making sure that i am in some way giving support to the artists... how many times must i tell you that I BUY VINYL!!!!!!!!!!! Get it thru your thick skull ok?? MY favorite DJ is PvD... I've flown to NY and boston from california to see him spin..spending well over 600 dollars. Can you say the same? I think that shows some dedication there as well as support. So i think you need to stop thinking that you're this moral doo gooder and stop with this hypocritical rant you're giving me.

And yes.. you're idea of "trance morals" is cheesy. Actually.. you may very well be able to be president.. since your "morals" are just as short sighted and one sided as our current president's.

My point is.. dont call us theives when you are one too.

My morals are equal to yours, except in one area and that is you've taken your piracy one level higher and showcased it for other people.

So I guess when Bush takes it one step further then you can become president.

How do you know how much money I have spent on vinyl, Dj's. I spent $3000 just so I can get to hear trance on an Island (Ibiza) and at a festival. Can you say the same??? Stupid arguement.

As for big DJ's they have an avenue where people can see what they showcase for free, shows. Producers however rely on sales and the bottom line is they are losing way more than they did before.

But the main issue here is whether or not your going to cry about it or have a nice debate, which Im enjoying. But why dont you argue with this

"You proberly heared that "Lightning-records" is closed.
It was my home for many years,and with lots of pain and sorrow it's an end of an era. As we all know Lightning suffered from low CD sales,getting attacked by MP3 downloading,and sales droping all over."

Thats a quote from MIKE. Join his forums tell him you played a burnt CDR for an audience and see what he says.

You know what, I dont know enough about you and you dont know enough about me, but I do know that there are people out there who make no effort to support and happily played pirated music with out trying to get it legimately.

The fact of the matter is this trend has started and its not going to stop, whether I like it or not. But like I said Im cynical, to the point where I am willing to be a hypocrate. So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit. I care about trance music and how the some of its biggest fans are killing it. *Note: Not saying wushboy is killing the scene.

"Its Time for A Revolution"

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Originally posted by hansolo My morals are equal to yours, except in one area and that is you've taken your piracy one level higher and showcased it for other people. So I guess when Bush takes it one step further then you can become president. How do you know how much money I have spent on vinyl, Dj's. I spent $3000 just so I can get to hear trance on an Island (Ibiza) and at a festival. Can you say the same??? Stupid arguement. As for big DJ's they have an avenue where people can see what they showcase for free, shows. Producers however rely on sales and the bottom line is they are losing way more than they did before. But the main issue here is whether or not your going to cry about it or have a nice debate, which Im enjoying. But why dont you argue with this "You proberly heared that "Lightning-records" is closed. It was my home for many years,and with lots of pain and sorrow it's an end of an era. As we all know Lightning suffered from low CD sales,getting attacked by MP3 downloading,and sales droping all over." Thats a quote from MIKE. Join his forums tell him you played a burnt CDR for an audience and see what he says. You know what, I dont know enough about you and you dont know enough about me, but I do know that there are people out there who make no effort to support and happily played pirated music with out trying to get it legimately. The fact of the matter is this trend has started and its not going to stop, whether I like it or not. But like I said Im cynical, to the point where I am willing to be a hypocrate. So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit. I care about trance music and how the some of its biggest fans are killing it. *Note: Not saying wushboy is killing the scene. "Its Time for A Revolution"

It does not matter whether or not you showcase it to the public or not. The underlying fact of the matter is that you are still a thief as well. You have not addressed my point of whether you think that using a cracked program or divx is valid just because you use it privately. I have addressed all your points in this debate.. while you have not addressed many of mine.

The point with going out to ny to see Pvd was not how much money was spent.. but it was to show that i do have dedication to the scene and i support it. You cannot deny that. If i did not support it i would just sit at home and listen to his ripped sets, correct? SO in that matter.. it is not a stupid arguement.

Big DJS do not have a free forum to showcase. You, as a fan, pay to get to hear the music. This is where u have not addressed my point where i have told u time and again that we did not receive any monetary compensation for spinning on that day. I wonder how you feel about internet broadcasts then. These are radio stations run via shoutcast that broadcast live to the public. Same thing.. you just dont actually see the person putting the mp3 into the winamp playlist. What do you think most of they play? I;ve given you plenty of arguements... you chose to only argue certain points while ignoring others completely. You choose to circumvent the arguement by saying "So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit." To me .. you are only argueing one side.

In regards to Lightning records, it is a shame that it went down. Your anger as well as arguement seem to be blaming me for its demise. I can tell you this... i dont have any devotion to any single label. If i like a song then i buy it. If there was a song i liked on the Lightning record label then i would buy it. For me, i buy most of the vinyls that come off the Vandit label as well as CDs and such. As a fan and supporter, you can only do so much. So.. dont take your anger out on me.. because i do support the labels i do like.

YES, YES, EVEYONE THAT READS THIS, WUSHBOY FROM LA Ruined Lightning records, plus has a lot of trouble reading what I have layed out before him.

I am one side, CYNICAL. I wont argue on both sides.

You support the scene in your way, I will do it my way.

Hopefully one day, I can catch you spinning a live set as you can do the same with me and hopefully we can both make a livelyhood out of something we both love.

can we end this discussion already? CDJs vs Vinyl Junkies vs MP3djs...it always ends the same. technology changes, and being a purist and not accepting change never helps. The problem is not giving due when it is deserved.

I believe most of the people on this site, and that listen to trance do love the music for what it is and don't blatanly and greedily try to make money off of it. If that was the case, they'd be into mainstream music where money flows much easier. For those that do just burn CDs and such, they do deserve flaming. However, next time, before you immediately assume someone is a thief and a greedy bastard, think before you accuse someone.

that being said, hansolo, it is not a very strong argument to say that wushuboy is more immoral just cuz he "took piracy to a level higher". that's like saying "hey i only copied two pages from the book, but he copied the whole book". morals isn't something to be judged in terms of levels. You either have it or you don't. and just cuz u dun care as much about dvds or wuteva, it dun mean that it's still not piracy. yea?

at the end of the day, please think before you accuse someone of something...we're all in this together, as a dj, as a supporter, as a listener, etc. trance is our common link, so why are we trying to destroy it by competing? get it thru ur heads, in every community there will be ppl that aren't as honest, as moral, as respective...but if you get caught up in fighting over that, ur gonna get nowhere.

please just stop this...i'm so tired of hearing about it. those ppl that blatantly don't pay their dues know who they are. i hope they realize that their love for trance is tainted when they don't respect the artist. and as for the majority who pay their dues in one way or the other, more power to you. so stop gettin' on each other's cases aight?

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo You support the scene in your way, I will do it my way. Hopefully one day, I can catch you spinning a live set as you can do the same with me and hopefully we can both make a livelyhood out of something we both love.

and i hope that's the end of this...

i kno for a fact that wushuboy loves the music, and i'm pretty sure that hansolo does too. so put on some trance and lets get our fuckin' groove on.

I agree no more of this. but as for my accusations bad place at the wrong time for wushboy. Im not singling him out, but my anger is more generalized. The odd post of igonrance and lack of support have built up to a point and unfortunately it gets to this point. But just like my trance, my frustration builds up to a crest and then crash and I have to open my mouth, even if it means calling someone a theif. Sorry if I hurt your feelings calling you a theif, you must understand that when I argue, my goal is to piss the other person off as much as possible, thats why I often avoid these fical discussions that do nothign but take up Swampers Bandwith.

As for morals thing, I am pretty sure that there are greater law implications if you use something publicly rather than privately, but what the fuck do I know.

Lets go dance to trance...

ps check out this thread should anyone need to argue more.

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo YES, YES, EVEYONE THAT READS THIS, WUSHBOY FROM LA Ruined Lightning records, plus has a lot of trouble reading what I have layed out before him. I am one side, CYNICAL. I wont argue on both sides. You support the scene in your way, I will do it my way. Hopefully one day, I can catch you spinning a live set as you can do the same with me and hopefully we can both make a livelyhood out of something we both love.

pretty lame of you to do a personal attack in this case, citing wushuboy in caps and saying he ruined lightning records?

how silly can you get hansolo, you just made others realised so.

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