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-- while everyone is busy with the war...
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| Originally posted by occrider Excellent ... I love discussing  . Ok well my statistics were from the usaid site, I'm not sure where yours are from but let's assume that yours are correct. Your stats claim that Israel is getting twice as much as Egypt and you're questioning why Israel is getting so much more and why egypt is getting so much at all. With regards to your first statement I think that Israel is getting so much because the US has been a long time ally and supporter of ISrael since its creation in 1948. I think that if you look at the relative ratio of aid Israel has been getting over the years you will find that it has been relatively constant over the years. This is by no means an indicator of Israeli infiltration of the US government but rather a reflection of a longstanding allied relationship. With respects to the reason why Egypt is getting so much, I don't really know. I think it stems from cold war relations when egypt was flirting with both the west and the russians. It could be that the US desires an Arab ally in the middle east, it could be anything. Is peace such a bad thing to buy? At any rate I'm merely stating that if you want to bring up the topic of foreign aid, don't just limit the discussion to Israel. |
This is just one example of how skewed "US aid" figures in the Middle East were last year (and still continue to become):
"U.S. Contributes $119.25 Million to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East"
(source: http://www.uspolicy.be/Issues/Middl...trib.092502.htm)
"U.S. to Provide Israel $2.16 Billion in Military Assistance in FY2004"
(source: http://www.uspolicy.be/Issues/Middl...ssis.112202.htm)
Why would the United States choose today (3.20.03) as the time to make this announcment?
hmmm...
What about:
TEN BILLION FOR OUR SCHOOLS!
TEN BILLION FOR OUR HOSPITALS!
TEN BILLION FOR OUR FIRST RESPONDERS!
TEN BILLION FOR OUR HEALTH CARE!
TEN BILLION FOR OUR FAILING ECONOMY!
it is part of a last minute vote by the congress on 90B more funds for this war, 10B will be wired to the Israelis 
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| Why would the United States choose today (3.20.03) as the time to make this announcment? |
Re: while everyone is busy with the war...
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek wow Santa Clause is late this year, still ditching around 1500 USD to every israeli. Americans are very genereous, they give out their hard earned cash... |
Re: while everyone is busy with the war...
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek ... Israel gets a 10 Billion USD in aid. I bet no one heard about it because everyone is busy with the war http://news.com.au/common/story_pag...255E401,00.html wow Santa Clause is late this year, still ditching around 1500 USD to every israeli. Americans are very genereous, they give out their hard earned cash while their public school system is in ruin, and about 30 million of them aren't covered in any kind of medical insurance. I'm very proud of you Americans! you have a big heart!  |
Re: Re: while everyone is busy with the war...
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| Originally posted by Eugene I've got only one word for you... anti-Semitic. And, after looking at your flag, I'm not surprised. |
how about the other people who agree Eugene? do u have the same word for them 2 or are u just judging by flags?
haha how about Eugene puts his real flag i.e. Israel and stop hiding behind the Russian one ( goes to the rest of you ! )
I really dont think that the US should be giving that amount of money to Israel, there's country's with alot more needs, really... but even so, the US actually needs the money now.
Re: Re: while everyone is busy with the war...
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| Originally posted by Eugene I've got only one word for you... anti-Semitic. And, after looking at your flag, I'm not surprised. |
the least effort shall prevail!
Eugene... you are a prime example of those individuals who label anyone anti-semetic after they criticize Israel... I HATE THAT WORD...BOO HOO ANTI SEMETIC THIS ANTI SEMETIC THAT....
Grow up!
And with repsect to that 10 billion to Israel... that makes me sick to my stomach...
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| Originally posted by Nalin because all the most powerful and influencial people in the US government are jews |
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| Originally posted by Izzy all? hmmm i dare you to name 20 powerful and influencial people in the US government, scratch that - name 10 lets not kid ourselves it costs the US 3 billion annual dollars to keep israel's exsistance possible. we all know that if it werent for that support israel would not be able to defend itself and would probably parish agianst an arab coalition. btw the $10 billion is a one time thing, so lets not forget all the other counrties being payed out for support in this war. just look at it as the cost america needs to pay in order to use israeli sea ports, israeli airports, isreali intellegence, and joint israeli training. btw can anybody do me a favor and show me some proof that israel is getting 10 billion dollars? |
Also the theory that Israeli influence in the upper echelon's of American governement simply because some of the people are Jewish is preposterous. It by no means implies causuality and it's a poor method of correlation. It's like saying that because Bush is a baptist from the South, there are strong ties of the US government to the kkk.
Hold your fuckin horses!!!
SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS THE US ACCEPTED ISRAELS REQUEST FOR $10BIL!!!
I'd also like to make it clear that it would be in load garentees. This means Israel is seeking a load from the world bank. The US by agreeing to accept Israels request would have to sign a few papers saying that Israel is good on paying back loads. This would cost the US nothing!!!!!! All Israel wants is for the US to sign these papers so they can fix up they're economy. They need this money to fight terrorism, and to make sure no more business's close in the country.
Israel has always paid back the loans taken. i see no reason why they shouldn't get that load garentee! You have other countries scamming the US for funds and at the same time publicly show they're outrage towards any US policy.
You wanna save money, cut off those useless fucks who contribute nothing to the US.
Here is a very interesting article: bitch about this ahamalek!
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| U.S. Aid To Israel The Christian Science Monitor delegitimizes and sensationalizes the amount of U.S. foreign aid to Israel. This year's "Lack of Balance Award" goes to the Christian Science Monitor, for its article, "Economist Tallies Swelling Cost of Israel to U.S." (December 9, 2002) The article vastly overstates the size of American foreign aid to Israel, saying that Uncle Sam spends twice as much money backing Israel "in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians" than it did on fighting in Vietnam. Charitable donations aren't spared the poison pen despite the fact that they're private, because the donations are a "net drain" on America's economy. The issue of foreign aid is particularly sensitive at this time, as Israel has asked the Bush administration for $4 billion in new direct aid and $8-10 billion in loan guarantees to cope with an intifada-spurned economic crisis and costs related to a U.S.-led war with Iraq. The Christian Science Monitor presents wildly exaggerated figures, supplied by economist Thomas Stauffer. The article claims: - The U.S. has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel, and "those outlays are [considered] part of the total package of support for Israel." - Stauffer tags Israel with the bill for rising oil prices (cost to U.S.: $450 billion), and a U.S. economic recession (cost: $420 billion). - U.S. charities have supported Israel to the tune of $50-60 billion. Though private in origin, the money is "a net drain" on the United States economy, says Stauffer. - U.S. policy and trade sanctions against adversarial regimes reduce U.S. exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing 70,000 or so American jobs, Stauffer claims. Not requiring Israel to use its U.S. aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid, costs another 125,000 jobs. - Israel has blocked some major U.S. arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s, costing the U.S. $40 billion, says Stauffer. * * * And how does the Christian Science Monitor balance these overblown claims? With one lone lukewarm sentence: "Many Americans would probably say it is money well spent to support a beleagured [sic] democracy of some strategic interest." A beleaguered democracy of some strategic interest?! Consider the facts: - Israel is America's most trusted and reliable ally in the Middle East, the only state in the Middle East that publicly declares support for the U.S. -- despite the fact that Israel may bear the brunt of Saddam's weapons when an American offensive begins. - Israel is on the frontline in the battle against Islamic terrorists, and provides the U.S. with key intelligence information and frontline military operations. As opinionjournal.com notes: "In 1981 Israel destroyed Iraq's Osirak reactor, setting back Saddam Hussein's quest for nuclear weapons. How much money and how many lives did this end up saving America?" - Israel is the sole democracy in the Middle East, a region dominated by authoritarian and military regimes. Israel upholds Western ideals of freedom of expression, a free market economy, equal opportunity, women's rights, judicial review, and minority representation in elected offices. The U.S. spends untold billions spreading the ideals of democracy around the world; in Israel, it comes for free. - The first U.S. President to supply large-scale military aid to Israel was Richard Nixon in 1970, in order to balance against the radical Arab states being financed by the Soviet Union. The U.S.-Israel partnership served its purpose by forcing such East Bloc clients as Egypt's Anwar Sadat to break from the Soviet fold. Having Israel do the dirty work in one of the world's most dangerous regions has, financially for the U.S., been a bargain. - Israel partners with the U.S. in technological development, medical research, agricultural innovations, and a wide range of cultural exchanges. In addition, many Israeli-developed technologies serve as integral components of the U.S. military arsenal. * * * The United States gives out $13.3 billion in direct foreign aid annually. The vast majority of these recipients express animosity toward the United States in state-sponsored media, and routinely vote against the U.S. in international forums. Below we contrast Israel's "value" to the United States, with that of other Mideast regimes like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority. HonestReporting encourages members to read the Christian Science Monitor article at: http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html - Send comments to the Christian Science Monitor: [email protected][/email] - Comments to President George W. Bush: [email protected] - Comments to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell: [email][email protected] Also, please monitor your local media to see how they are reporting the issue of Israel's request for additional U.S. aid. For additional background information, we highly recommend AIPAC's overview of Israel's strategic value to the United States: http://www.aipac.org/briefbookissues.html Also read "The $36 Billion Bargain: Strategy and Politics in U.S. Assistance to Israel" by A.F.K. Organski (Columbia University Press). Organski is a well-respected political scientist whose work has become textbooks for political science classes throughout the country. And cheers to Howard Feinberg for this nice follow-up article refuting the claims in the Christian Science Monitor: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Article...cle.asp?ID=5103 Thank you for your ongoing involvement in the battle against media bias. HonestReporting.com ===== EGYPT ===== Egypt receives $2 billion annually in U.S. foreign aid, including some of the world's most advanced weaponry like F-16 combat planes, Patriot missiles, M-1A1 battle tanks, and Harpoon anti-ship missiles, more advanced than those used by Israel. And yet: - The government-sponsored media in Egypt has spread disparaging remarks against U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell ("bird brain"), and against other American leaders. In an article entitled "Oh, No, Mr. Bush," the editor of the government-sponsored daily, Al-Akhbar, wrote: "I say to you, Oh Mr. Bush, that you alone are responsible for the feeble image of the U.S., whose name smacks of lack of credibility and lack of transparency, and has become a synonym for oppression and for abnegation of justice and international legitimacy..." (source: memri.org) - The government-sponsored daily, Al-Akhbar, has perverted American history and threatened American landmarks with destruction. Columnist Mahmoud Abd Al-Mun'im Murad wrote: "The U.S. treats the [Arabs] as it treated the slaves inside the American continent... The real issue is the Arab-American conflict -- Arabs must understand that the U.S. is not 'the American friend' -- and its task, past, present, and future, is [to impose] hegemony on the world, primarily on the Middle East and the Arab world... The Statue of Liberty, in New York Harbor, must be destroyed because of following the idiotic American policy that goes from disgrace to disgrace in the swamp of bias and blind fanaticism." (source: memri.org) - The Egyptian government recently rejected a U.S. request to cease anti-Semitic television programming ("U.S. Objects to 'Protocols' on Egyptian TV" - November 1, 2002, The New York Times). - In international forums, Egypt stands in opposition to American interests. Figures show that in the United Nations, Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time. Yet the flow of U.S. aid continues... ===== SAUDI ARABIA ===== The United States, through oil imports, pours about $10 billion annually into Saudi Arabian coffers. Here's what the U.S. gets back in return: - A September 2002 cartoon in the Saudi Arabia-based "Arab News" depicts President Bush as an inflatable doll, with Donald Rumsfeld holding the pump and blowing him up into a likeness of Hitler. http://www.arabnews.com/Cartoon.Asp...2&ArM=09&ArD=21 - In an August 2002 editorial, the Saudi daily Al-Riyadh defamed the totality of American history: "If America wants to open up the issue of compensation for those who died in the two towers, it must agree to the establishment of an international court that will examine [its own] war crimes, plundering, coups, what American intelligence did with the drug barons, the policy of abductions and murder, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, the claims still pending regarding the black slave trade, and the deliberate annihilation of the Indians -- and apply all this to all countries, without statute of limitations, so that we feel we live on one planet that functions according to the same moral principles." (source: memri.org) - Fifteen of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals, causing direct and secondary economic damage in the hundreds of billions of dollars. The wife of a Saudi prince has funneled funds to al-Qaeda terrorists, and a report from the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations says: "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for al-Qaeda; and for years, Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem." http://cfr.org/publication.php?id=5080 - The U.S. State Department reports that freedom of religion does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Only Muslims can be citizens. The government prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions. Non-Muslim worshippers risk arrest, imprisonment, lashing, deportation, and sometimes torture for engaging in overt religious activity that attracts official attention. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/c7600.htm - Figures show that in the United Nations, Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time. Yet the U.S.-Saudi alliance continues... ===== PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY ===== The United States gives over $100 million annually in foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority. And yet: - In November 2002, PA legislator Nahed Munir Alrayis, writing in the official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, threatened the United States with suicide bombings. He wrote that U.S. policy will leave the Arab and Islamic world so hopeless that they will have no choice but to resort to "suicide attacks against the United States, its armed forces and its navy." - Anti-American sentiment runs high in the Palestinian street. The U.S. flag going up in flames is a common site at Palestinian rallies in the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon. (http://honestreporting.com/graphics/flagburn.jpg) - In November 2002, the White House officially announced that the Palestinians are not in compliance with agreements signed with the United States and Israel. According to the State Department's semiannual report on Palestinian compliance, PA officials have supported violence "as a proper path towards an acceptable end to the conflict, even as they called for renewed negotiations... There is strong evidence that some members of the PA security forces were allowed to continue serving even though their participation in terrorist incidents was well known." And yet the PA continues to receive its flow of U.S. aid... ===== THE FINAL WORD ===== If the Christian Science Monitor wants to criticize how U.S. aid is being spent, it is picking the wrong target. For in deep contrast to other Mideast recipients of U.S. foreign aid, figures show that in the United Nations, Israel votes with the United States 94% of the time. |
after thinking about this a bit more, Americans shouldn't care about this aid, after all they won't be paying it from their pockets, but from Iraqi oil
and since when are you citing Christian organizations melech_mike? aren't you that ultra orthodox jew? oh maybe you converted, your dad will be very proud of you
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| after thinking about this a bit more, Americans shouldn't care about this aid, after all they won't be paying it from their pockets, but from Iraqi oil. and since when are you citing Christian organizations melech_mike? aren't you that ultra orthodox jew? oh maybe you converted, your dad will be very proud of you |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike i never heard so much shit pour out of someones face before. You could spread your propaganda abuot the US stealing money from Iraq for they're own interests, but the fact of the matter is that oil will forever be in Iraq's control. There are way too many countres in the coalition |
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the US put together that wouldn't never let the US steal Iraqi oil! |
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Hey, arent you that Muslim-Arab terrorist from the west bank with ties to Bin Laden and Arafucked? Your father Saddam wont be too thrilled that you're now living in the west. |
and ethnically I'm not arab either I speak arabic tho 
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The fact is that you cant show me proff of the US funding 10bil to Israel because its not true. they didn't approve the load they asked for, and have actually cut the annual sum they usualy give Israel. |
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This post should be deleted for its propaganda, lies, incitment against Israel and your idiotic remarks! Why dont i see Blik up uin here closing the thread. THIS THREAD IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ARABS TRYING TO DISCREDIT ISRAEL WITH NOTHING TO BACK THEMSELVES ON!!! DONT POST STUPIDITY AHAMALEK! you guys only make the arab cause less relevent... your filled with lies hate and no bigger dream than to destroy Israel. And trust me when i say, youd be slaughtered by my own hands before you destroy Israel! |
there's no propaganda in here, this is facts and it seems as you don't like it because it shows how the US plays the good sugar daddy to Israel.
Doubts over US aid to Israel
US military aid is a fashion accessory in Tel Aviv
Israel says the US has offered the country $10bn (�6.4bn) to bail it out of the worst economic crisis in its history.
Israel's Finance Ministry said the package consisted of $1bn (�640m) in direct military aid and $9bn in loan guarantees.
But, several hours after Israel announced the deal, the US said it had not made a decision about the aid package.
US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told reporters at a briefing: "We don't have any new decisions on that.
"The request has been made by the Israelis. The status today is the same as yesterday. We are looking at it. We are considering it."
War budget
The 30-month-long Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation and the global economic slowdown have plunged Israel into its third year of recession.
The country is the biggest recipient of US aid worldwide and initially asked for $4bn (�2.5bn) in military aid and $8bn in loan guarantees.
The US would deduct from the loan guarantees any Israeli expenditure on settlement activities in Palestinian areas.
The package is part of President George W Bush's war budget and even if it is agreed by the President it will still need approval by the US Congress.
Economic troubles
Israel said that US National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice pledged the aid to Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday.
"Rice told Netanyahu that the (Bush) administration decided to raise the amount of the guarantees by $1bn over what had been planned because the Americans were impressed by the economic plan that has been presented to the government," Israel's finance ministry said in a statement.
Israel's economy contracted by 1% in 2002 after a 0.9% fall in 2001 and the budget deficit is running at 6%, twice the forecast for 2003.
Mr Netanyahu on Monday announced government spending cuts and reductions in the public sector wage to rein in the budget deficit.
Israel already receives $3bn a year from the US, mostly as military aid.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2867619.stm <-- are you contesting the BBC?
well I will concede that it seems the package deal hasn't been signed by the US president yet. I just saw Ari ben Fleisher and he was talking about that 90B package (which that 10B is part off) that the president is reviewing right about now and this was direct on CNN.
so you win melech_mike, but for how long, the President will sign it and you will have to conced that you were wrong!
Well, US offered Turkey 30 billion $ for their military support, so you could actually say they like Turkey 3 times more than Israel.
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| You could spread your propaganda abuot the US stealing money from Iraq for they're own interests, but the fact of the matter is that oil will forever be in Iraq's control. There are way too many countres in the coalition the US put together that wouldn't never let the US steal Iraqi oil! |
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, US offered Turkey 30 billion $ for their military support, so you could actually say they like Turkey 3 times more than Israel. |
the number I've seen till now was more like 6B, but maybe it was upped to 30B because the Turkish aren't cooperating.
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Originally posted by JM  good thing the US DOES support Israel! too bad the rest of Europe don't dish out ca$h to Israel like the US does! >JM< |
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| Originally posted by occrider PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! The number of americans not covered under any health insurance is: "10.1 million poor people had no health insurance in 2001. They represented 30.7 percent of the poor, unchanged from 2000." http://www.census.gov/ And what statistic do you have that qualifies our poublic school system as being in a state of "ruin"???? |
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| Originally posted by tranceaholic but it is a fact that we are having a great deal of economic problems with pay cuts and lack of jobs so maybe giving billions of dollars away is not a good idea right now..and even if we r gonna give away billions..why not spread it around to other poor countries? |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek ok i'll have to find my sources, i don't have them handy, but don't divert the discussion. |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek ok obviously i'm not gonna try finding my sources, frankly it doesn't matter. Lets take your numbers and say the public education system is excellent. Lets just not divert attention from the present subject which is huge and senseless US aid to israel. |
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| Originally posted by Nalin because all the most powerful and influencial people in the US government are jews, so of course they're going to give away billions to israel instead of to any other country or cause that would merrit that money instead; in fact israel is using a lot of that money to themselves build/obtain huge amounts of weapons; i mean its not like its a conspiracy that israel can has masses of weapons but other middle eastern countries are allowed to have none; its not like its a conspiracy that it is funded billions of free money for absolutely no reason at all; its not like its a conspiracy that a country brutally founded at the expense of another barely existant for 50 years should be in the top few nations in military might - it all seems normal to me |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek waiting for the "anti-semite" and nazi replies so easily thrown at anyone criticizing the current state of affairs. |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek wow this remark finally came!! after many many posts! I'm really surprised!! and FYI I am semite |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek because when you can't answer something up front, you divert the attention... its the best strategy and some of my fellow tranceaddicts are masters at this! |
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| Originally posted by tranceaholic well i dont think u will find anything that refutes the huge aid the us gives to israel..it is a well known fact..kids at elementry school know that. |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek why did you attack the statistic before trying discussing the main subject? |
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| Originally posted by occrider ...I see very many of my posts, questions, and responces left unanswered. You may think that I'm biased and uneducated but at least take the time to refute my arguments. I do as much for all of you ... |
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I don't see anything wrong with the US giving foreign aid to Israel. Israel indeed is in a hostile environment, and if it weren't for its large army, it wouldn't exist anymore. Egypt is not in such a situation, so it doesn't need as much foreign aid. |
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| Originally posted by tranceaholic my dear occidier this is the first time ur refutation is weak..aid israel because it is a long time ally? come on..and ok aid it but not with this great amount specially when there is economic depression..next topic Egypt..being egyptian..giving it aid works wonder...people are against the US and its actions however the goverment puts it down because how vital the US aid is for the US and egypt is a strong voice and strength in the arab country..keepin it quiet keeps alot of people quiet..as of now there are alot of protests against the War but the egyuptian goverment puts it down. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Eugene... you are a prime example of those individuals who label anyone anti-semetic after they criticize Israel... I HATE THAT WORD...BOO HOO ANTI SEMETIC THIS ANTI SEMETIC THAT.... Grow up! And with repsect to that 10 billion to Israel... that makes me sick to my stomach... |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek I think you didn't watch enough CNN today, even they talked about it... so are you calling YOUR own media liers? sure sure body there's no propaganda in here, this is facts and it seems as you don't like it because it shows how the US plays the good sugar daddy to Israel.and btw, where did you see the hate? man get a grip over your hysterical self. |
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek well I will concede that it seems the package deal hasn't been signed by the US president yet. I just saw Ari ben Fleisher and he was talking about that 90B package (which that 10B is part off) that the president is reviewing right about now and this was direct on CNN. so you win melech_mike, but for how long, the President will sign it and you will have to conced that you were wrong! |
I saw it in the croatian newspapers the first time. The figures on the net vary between 4 and 30 billion. I guess the 30 billion is the last one because it wouldtn't make sense if the offer was decreased.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030319/80/dvt5x.html
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