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-- Is It Just Me Or...
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quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Agree with those. occrider might be suitable as well, although he seems to think being a mod is not very rewarding.

It's not that I don't think that it would be rewarding, I just think that it would be a difficult task in this forum where people can be irrational and immature in explaining their beliefs. I'm not talking about people who make poor cases for their argument or people who are passionate about an issue, I'm talking about the people who are continually offensive who try to piss other people off for kicks.

However, I would do it though just to get rid of behaviour such as we've seen in the past. It's annoying to have to skip through a bunch of flames to find a decent reply. Also they distract from the people who are actually trying to conduct an intelligent discussion. Then that person's valid points are likely lost in all the crap to follow and never addresssed.

Also in a forum like this, I think that there should be two mods who are very active here. That way they have someone to discuss problem cases with and in the event that they need to punish somebody they aren't accused of bias since it was an action sanctioned by both mods.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Hrmm i think since the main topic in political disussion deals with iraq it would be nice to have someone with an arabic background or perhaps even iraqi to moderate as well It would only be fair just to create some equality

Disagree with that... Being a mod has nothing to do with origin and once one of the "active mods" (If I may call them that) is apparently acting upon bias of opinion, the users are free to make notice of that to the other "Active mods" or one of the "Supervising" mods IE Blik or Wicked Neo.

In addition, I think choosing a mod just (or amongst other reasons) because he is an Arab/ European/ Jew etc. etc. is just as wrong as NOT choosing him for any of those reasons...

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Disagree with that... Being a mod has nothing to do with origin and once one of the "active mods" (If I may call them that) is apparently acting upon bias of opinion, the users are free to make notice of that to the other "Active mods" or one of the "Supervising" mods IE Blik or Wicked Neo. In addition, I think choosing a mod just (or amongst other reasons) because he is an Arab/ European/ Jew etc. etc. is just as wrong as NOT choosing him for any of those reasons...

Agreed, I think that intelligent mods can be fair regardless of their beliefs. (Ideally) They wouldn't be policing beliefs they would be policing behaviour. If someone were trying to intelligentely discuss why hitler was a great guy, and someone was being downright hostile, offensive, and innapropriate in professing his love for ghandi, I'd rather see the ghandi guy get warned.

We should post a poll where we all vote who we want for the mod.

its a sad day when grown ups need a full time mod to babysit the forum like this... what are we? 5 year olds? can't people discuss issues in a civilized manner?

i'm not meaning to flame anyone.... but it seems like theres a very low level of maturity here when we need mods to... well, moderate our discussions.

well, i guess even televised political debates have moderators...

You hit the nail right on the head ... people are childish.

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead its a sad day when grown ups need a full time mod to babysit the forum like this... what are we? 5 year olds? can't people discuss issues in a civilized manner? i'm not meaning to flame anyone.... but it seems like theres a very low level of maturity here when we need mods to... well, moderate our discussions. well, i guess even televised political debates have moderators...

not all of them are grownups. anyone, such as minors, can register into these forums and pay this section a visit. then there are some who have come of age physically but not mentally.

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Disagree with that... Being a mod has nothing to do with origin and once one of the "active mods" (If I may call them that) is apparently acting upon bias of opinion, the users are free to make notice of that to the other "Active mods" or one of the "Supervising" mods IE Blik or Wicked Neo. In addition, I think choosing a mod just (or amongst other reasons) because he is an Arab/ European/ Jew etc. etc. is just as wrong as NOT choosing him for any of those reasons...

I definately agree with you odori.. but sometimes one can make offensive comments that will just slip by.. its been done several times by a few posters.. where they only analyze the situation from one viewpoint and it serves as propoganda.. things like this should not be overlooked as well as posters that are clearly racist.. they should be banned.. tahts why (JUST like the UN... well if it actually is working lol) we should have an ethnic variety in mods. This way mods can come to agreement when choosing suspensions and bans.


debates on the war in iraq can turn racial very quickly.. it would be good to have a mod that can point it out right away and deal with it

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit I definately agree with you odori.. but sometimes one can make offensive comments that will just slip by.. its been done several times by a few posters.. where they only analyze the situation from one viewpoint and it serves as propoganda.. things like this should not be overlooked as well as posters that are clearly racist.. they should be banned.. tahts why (JUST like the UN... well if it actually is working lol) we should have an ethnic variety in mods. This way mods can come to agreement when choosing suspensions and bans. debates on the war in iraq can turn racial very quickly.. it would be good to have a mod that can point it out right away and deal with it

There's nothing wrong with posting propoganda. After all, like blik said, everybody is biased, and therefore everybody is writing propoganda to support their cause. If you start banning people who only analyze a situation from one viewpoint you'd be banning 70% of the people here. I think that the spirit of these forums is that I present my viewpoint, person x presents his viewpoint, maybe we agree, maybe we don't.

Also it would be a nightmare trying to classify who is racist and who isn't with all the words that go flying back and forth in this forum. If someone is racist and is telling people why he dislikes Jews, Arabs, or martians for whatever reason, I don't think that warrants a ban. He should be allowed to express his views. But if he gets disruptive, offensive, and generally becomes a nuissance to this forum then I think that warrants warnings followed by a ban if necessary. Also if you try to ban people based upon perceptions that they're racist you run the risk of the mods fighting with each other over whether a post was racist, whether it warrants a banning, etc. It's pretty easy to identify if someone is being disruptive or offensive on these forums though.

RACISM is definately a no no

if you find people making racist comments or have a racist biased that is a great reason to ban them since.. in this day an age (I WOULD HOPE) it is intolerable

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit RACISM is definately a no no if you find people making racist comments or have a racist biased that is a great reason to ban them since.. in this day an age (I WOULD HOPE) it is intolerable

Well blatantly racist or bigoted statements that are offensive for sure. But it has to be EXTREMELY obvious to everyone that that person is racist and it would have to be repeated offenses. I mean on a board like this where everybody is from everywhere it can be very easy for others to accuse people of being racist based upon the extremism of their views when that may not be the case.

edit: For example, you think that melech is racist. Slomo I think so, but melech I disagree. I think that he just becomes extremely passionate about what he believes and he can become inflamed at times. He flames right back at those that flame him and it soon spirals out of control. I don't think that he is racist though.

The great irony, of course, is that this should be the last forum where one would expect to find people being banned for ignorance: when I joined TA last month after longtime trolling, I was heartened by the blurb on the main page promising serious debate and a need for a "dictionary" in this forum.

As for the earlier poster's suggestion that newbies be banned--please don't, as some of us n00bs ain't so bad...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider edit: For example, you think that melech is racist. Slomo I think so, but melech I disagree. I think that he just becomes extremely passionate about what he believes and he can become inflamed at times. He flames right back at those that flame him and it soon spirals out of control. I don't think that he is racist though.

when he generalizes and indirectly calls all arabs evil i consider that to be a racist remark. a racist and ignorant remarks since i dont think he even knows a single arab perosnally not like it would matter but still you cant judge a whole race like that

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit when he generalizes and indirectly calls all arabs evil i consider that to be a racist remark. a racist and ignorant remarks since i dont think he even knows a single arab perosnally not like it would matter but still you cant judge a whole race like that

I agree melech generalizes a lot but if you notice his posts there are two sides really. He starts off with an unbiased question. For example the legitimacy of Palestinian claims to a state when they never clamored for such a state before Israel was created (don't respond to this I'm just using it as an example). I don't have th post right in front of me but it didn't seem offensive, it wasn't inflamatory, he was simply asking for an intelligent reply. What typically happens then is that he gets the usual responce from non "regulars" who post stupid crap that more or less infuriates mike. The flaming progresses such that by the time that the "regulars" are able to respond they are upset with Melech's flaming that they begin to flame melech for what he said. Melech then gets more excited and begins to flame back and so on. It seems like he's not intolerant at all to other races, since it seems that genuine malice is absent from his posts. He just seems impassioned for sticking up for Israel. Would a melech "opponent" care to comment on this? It's just something that I've noticed.

At any rate there are a lot of other people that generalize just as much. However, you have to admit that it seems like melech has toned things down quite a bit as of late and I find that many of his posts are academic.

Btw sorry for talking in front of your face melech ... just giving reasons for why I don't think you're racist

Edit: Essentially I'm saying that melech deserves a voice on these forums as much as any of you or me. Yes he holds dear to his beliefs but I don't think that he satisfies the criteria of somebody getting banned such as Tiesto. Tiesto relied on flaming to get all of his point across, Melech doesn't. Much like anybody else, a grain of salt should be taken when listening to anybody here.

quote:

the legitimacy of Palestinian claims to a state when they never clamored for such a state before Israel was created

actually no! That is a very biased question! if you look into your history book, people living in palestine (palestinians) never get colonialists off their back, before israel who? British! and before? Turks for centuries and before others... etc etc and even all these empires recognized that palestinians are distinct from the others thus having their own province called you guessed it, Palestine. This started with the Romans and onward.

so when someone claims that they never asked for a country it's like implying that these guys never existed, or just living there like some tribes do in amazonia not knowing that others exist around them, which is completly false and disrespectful because palestinians have a history like other people. And sadly, they always been under the rule of some empire.

That's what attracts furious and pointless debates to his threads. He chose to ignore historical facts. He always implies that before Israel, nothingness prevailed and thats why I chose not participate.

one last thing, before, we used to have city-states that would control territories around them by force and extend their control over time.

States and countries as we know it now is newc compared to the history of these territories some call judea or Palestine. I mean even the Germans formed Deutshland recently in the 19th century! It used to be city-states, kingdoms and such.

so asking why palestine never was a country is denying these historical facts.

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek actually no! That is a very biased question! if you look into your history book, people living in palestine (palestinians) never get colonialists off their back, before israel who? British! and before? Turks for centuries and before others... etc etc and even all these empires recognized that palestinians are distinct from the others thus having their own province called you guessed it, Palestine. This started with the Romans and onward. so when someone claims that they never asked for a country it's like implying that these guys never existed, or just living there like some tribes do in amazonia not knowing that others exist around them, which is completly false and disrespectful because palestinians have a history like other people. And sadly, they always been under the rule of some empire. That's what attracts furious and pointless debates to his threads. He chose to ignore historical facts. He always implies that before Israel, nothingness prevailed and thats why I chose not participate.

Arrrggghhhh what did I just say??? I said don't reply to that, I was just using it as an example!!! What you just replied to ME should have been what you reply to Melech in his question!!!! If you disagree with his statements ... PROVE HIM WRONG BY USING FACTS!!! Keep in mind that even if you're not able to pursuade melech with what you say, you're also trying to pursuade all of us that you are right! I've given up LONG ago trying to convince specific people that was I say is correct, but my hope is that somebody reads what I say, takes everything into consideration, and gains a different perspective.

i know i know, but I inderctly answered him. I don't want to participate in his debates, I decided to some times ago. His biased questions always attract answers that will either do him justice, or furious replies. So what's the point? its not real debate. its debate a la CNN.

Understandable ... I think we're the only ones up hehe. Well if his questions are biased point out how they are biased. I think that it only hurts your cause if you choose to ignore everything that he says since it seems like you're avoiding the question. At a certain point though I don't bother replying either because you say the same things over and over and over again to the point where it's pointless. I think we're at the same level at opposite ends of the spectrum

what cause? I gain nothing, I don't get paid, no one will give me medals or such hehe. I think you understand what I mean. I'm willing to debate but it has to be a fair debate. When someone starts off badly, the discussion is bound to end sourly. So why waste my time and add more oil to the fire if I know beforehand that this guy (or some others) will keep going in their now known style.

Simply Fuck it!

You get the satisfaction of proving that they're idiots ... that they have no argument. That when you get right down to it, they can't carry on an intelligent conversation without resorting to utter crap or flaiming. I'll argue someone into the ground until I they prove me wrong, I prove them wrong, or we come to some kind of agreement. Half the fun of debating is to use logic and facts to your advantage in proving your case.

hehe i understand and I believe i was able to prove them wrong in the past. But I will be more satisfied if they do justice to themselves and stop posting crap and be fair to themselves and others.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider You get the satisfaction of proving that they're idiots ... that they have no argument. That when you get right down to it, they can't carry on an intelligent conversation without resorting to utter crap or flaiming. I'll argue someone into the ground until I they prove me wrong, I prove them wrong, or we come to some kind of agreement. Half the fun of debating is to use logic and facts to your advantage in proving your case.

lol it seems funny but i hope thats not why you debate.. to get satisfaction that you are smarter than everyone else..

The reason to debate is to come to a resolution that would best satisfy both parties. Bring out the points from both sides and proove your case in a moral and just method. EG saying that the arabs are proving to the world that they are all bad is a pointless flamming generalization.. an argument that will never have any basis

I say the point to debating is to find a sutable resolution


Im hoping there was some rhetoric in your answer occrider

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit lol it seems funny but i hope thats not why you debate.. to get satisfaction that you are smarter than everyone else.. The reason to debate is to come to a resolution that would best satisfy both parties. Bring out the points from both sides and proove your case in a moral and just method. EG saying that the arabs are proving to the world that they are all bad is a pointless flamming generalization.. an argument that will never have any basis I say the point to debating is to find a sutable resolution Im hoping there was some rhetoric in your answer occrider

Well ahlamalek was asking what possible gain he could get from debating ... I was merely providing one benefit hehe. And no I'm not on these forums to prove that I'm smarter than anybody else, I'm just saying that there's some satisfaction in making a coherent argument to somebody and the best they can do is to flame you . The reason I'm here is to break misconceptions. Other people's misconceptions and especially my own.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I agree melech generalizes a lot but if you notice his posts there are two sides really. He starts off with an unbiased question. For example the legitimacy of Palestinian claims to a state when they never clamored for such a state before Israel was created (don't respond to this I'm just using it as an example). I don't have th post right in front of me but it didn't seem offensive, it wasn't inflamatory, he was simply asking for an intelligent reply. What typically happens then is that he gets the usual responce from non "regulars" who post stupid crap that more or less infuriates mike. The flaming progresses such that by the time that the "regulars" are able to respond they are upset with Melech's flaming that they begin to flame melech for what he said. Melech then gets more excited and begins to flame back and so on. It seems like he's not intolerant at all to other races, since it seems that genuine malice is absent from his posts. He just seems impassioned for sticking up for Israel. Would a melech "opponent" care to comment on this? It's just something that I've noticed. At any rate there are a lot of other people that generalize just as much. However, you have to admit that it seems like melech has toned things down quite a bit as of late and I find that many of his posts are academic. Btw sorry for talking in front of your face melech ... just giving reasons for why I don't think you're racist Edit: Essentially I'm saying that melech deserves a voice on these forums as much as any of you or me. Yes he holds dear to his beliefs but I don't think that he satisfies the criteria of somebody getting banned such as Tiesto. Tiesto relied on flaming to get all of his point across, Melech doesn't. Much like anybody else, a grain of salt should be taken when listening to anybody here.

Much appreciated!
Good analysis of my character Occrider.
Wouldn't say its perfect, but you hit a few nails right on!
Thanks.

PS 2 every TA - I'm not racist!!!!! I just dislike stupid, ignorant people!! You could take that to the bank!

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