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-- Israeli air strikes on Gaza kill 192
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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're so against, 'the actions of a state' why aren't you against another state randomly firing thousands of rockets randomly into another? There are others solutions other than using weapons... Here's a radical idea, how about negotiating with your neighbors rather than using this as a platform to fulfill their ultimate goal of the destruction of Israel? Is the dogma of Hamas' charter that thick that they can't understand how to negotiate in this modern age? Sooner or later they're going to have to realize that Israel isn't going anywhere. Hopefully this last smack down operation was enough for Hamas to clue in that if you poke a pitbull too long, soon or later it's going to bite. It's just too bad Hamas has to use women and children as their shields to try and garner World support and sympathy who are the real victims of a twisted Hamas ideology.

You are such a simple minded person.I cant believe how brainwashed you really are.This so called operations will do nothing to make Hamas unpopular amongst the Palestinian people.Israel once again eneded up achieving nothing and managed to piss off millions and millions of muslims around the world.GOOD JOB you zionist scumbags.

It is fuckin disgusting how Israel delibritly targeted women and children and called everyone in Gaza "Hamas fighters".

I cant wait to see those IDF killers face international trials and pay for their war crimes against humanity.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer This so called operations will do nothing to make Hamas unpopular amongst the Palestinian people.Israel once again eneded up achieving nothing and managed to piss off millions and millions of muslims around the world.

I don't know... if I were a regular Palestinian, I would be pretty pissed off that Hamas provoked this attack knowing that eventually Israel would go crazy, especially because Hamas deliberately places their operations in places to maxamize civillian casualties.

quote:

It is fuckin disgusting how Hamas delibritly uses women and children as shields.

fixed

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I cant wait to see those IDF killers face international trials and pay for their war crimes against humanity.

pipe dream

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Originally posted by Krypton So because I am against the actions of a state, that automatically means I am a racist? Sorry, but i don't sink that low, or low enough to call people racists for holding a certain point of view which isn't even related to racism.

No, but until you provide a reason to believe you don't despise Israel or Jews, I see no reason to think otherwise based on your anti-Jew rhetoric that you've been posting for some time.

quote:

The IDF finished what job? You actually think Hamas hasn't prepared for this? LOL. The Executive Force specialize in assymetrical warfare. I know you don't see turning Gaza into a militant factory of pissed off young unemployed Arabs as counter-productive, but in reality, Operation Cast Lead, will be an absolute failure and is VERY counterproductive. It will NOT bring lasting peace. And anyone who thinks violence will bring about peace is in some serious need of psychological help.

Re-read what I said. IF the IDF finishes the job and roots out Hamas, you can't say their actions were counter-productive, because they will have achieved their objective. I didn't say they have officially finished the job. So tell me, all knowing middle east expert Krypton, what will bring lasting peace then? Because in Hamas' charter, it calls for the outright destruction of Israel. You are sadly naive if you think diplomacy will bring about lasting peace with such a group... and when it doesn't, you'll act shocked just like Jimmy Carter did when Brezhnev ordered an invasion of Afghanistan after Carter met with him a year earlier and Brezhnev said otherwise.... or when Carter had North Korea agree to a nulcer weapons treaty, only to be shocked again when it was broken shorty after. All of you "diplomacy" Democrats actually believe this works, but you don't understand who you're dealing with. Those people don't think like Americans, and unfortunately it is a necessary evil to use violence. So it would seem lasting peace would require organizations such as Hamas, who call for the total destruction of Israel in their charter to be eliminated.

quote:

Yea, the cartoons are fucked up, what's your point? The hundreds of thousands of illegal Zionist settlers believe they have a right to steal internationally recognized Palestinian land. And now you'r surprised when Palestinians decide to resist? LOL...

What's my point??? That you're a silly little boy who doesn't understand how the real world works.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer It is fuckin disgusting how Israel delibritly targeted women and children and called everyone in Gaza "Hamas fighters". I cant wait to see those IDF killers face international trials and pay for their war crimes against humanity.

Don't hold your breath as the IDF is well respected by Western powers.

Oh yeah, and there are definitely some women hamas fighters

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter That's just it -- I don't agree that it "makes Israel look bad." I don't see Israel as being responsible for those casualties; rather, it is the terrorists who have provoked the response that are to blame. Of course, if Israel's response went above and beyond what was required to eliminate the terrorist threat, they would certainly be responsible for the excess... but the problem is precisely the opposite. Israel's typical response falls well short of what is required to eliminate that threat -- and if Israel is deserving of blame, and I think that they are, it is for that failing, not for the fact that they endeavor to defend themselves in the first place! If that aim amounts to the elimination of an ongoing attack against the state, then absolutely! If we accept the premise that a nation's response must be "proportional" to the damage thus far caused to persons and property as part of an ongoing attack against that nation, then a nation is utterly powerless to defend itself, so long as its enemies attacks do not pass some ill-defined threshold while they no doubt seek to maximize the collateral damage that would result if responsive action were taken. That seems an absurd enough result to reject the premise out of hand, but a further consideration of the practical consequences of such a policy yields even greater reason to reject it. Namely, it creates a state of perpetual conflict -- one side is free to attack the other with impunity, and the other must apparently simply absorb the losses inflicted without so much as lifting a finger. It is obvious that no meaningful peace process can move forward alongside such a backdrop. And the consequence is that the palestinians continue to exist in poverty and political limbo, and Israel continues to suffer utterly needless casualties. On the other hand, there is no real problem with a policy by which a nation may use a degree of force necessary to terminate the attacks against it -- if the force required produces damage too "disproportionate" to the damage that the attacks have been doing, then there is an easy solution. Namely, those who were attacking that nation in the first place can realize that it's a losing equation and simply stop doing so. Unlike the alternative, this is a result which actually has at least some small potential for actual long-term progress toward a lasting peace. The choice between the two alternative approaches seems simple enough to me... The UN had best tread carefully in that case. I will not object if the English language responds to this attack in a "disproportionate" manner; indeed, I encourage it to terminate the UN's attack by whatever means necessary. Nowhere have I stated that I expect the current military activities to be more successful than prior operations. I will assert that it is well within Israel's operational capabilities; however, I expect them to eventually cease the operation without achieving my proposed objective -- a decision which I will be highly critical of. The reason for my emphasis is simple: one can negotiate with Israel, but not with Hamas. Therefore, one of the two culpable activities poses a very different sort of obstacle to achieving a lasting peace, which is quite clearly in the best interest of both sides. Accordingly, it is in the interest of both sides that the obstacle be removed. It is unfortunate that the removal will be costly, but simply prolonging the situation in the vain hope that it will correct itself is hardly a prudent alternative...

I didn't know you were such a brainwashed racist asshole devoid of any principle or honor.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX

I did...http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/features/egypt/

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Originally posted by buitre OK, so at least you agree Israel isn't responsible for Gaza, and has the full right to close the borders with it. That's a progress...

Close borders yes, blockade, NO. Don't equate the two.

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Huh?

What, didn't sink in? Give it time...

quote:

Fine by me. Just tell them to not fire rockets at me.

Tell your government to lift the blockade.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're so against, 'the actions of a state' why aren't you against another state randomly firing thousands of rockets randomly into another? There are others solutions other than using weapons... Here's a radical idea, how about negotiating with your neighbors rather than using this as a platform to fulfill their ultimate goal of the destruction of Israel? Is the dogma of Hamas' charter that thick that they can't understand how to negotiate in this modern age? Sooner or later they're going to have to realize that Israel isn't going anywhere. Hopefully this last smack down operation was enough for Hamas to clue in that if you poke a pitbull too long, soon or later it's going to bite. It's just too bad Hamas has to use women and children as their shields to try and garner World support and sympathy who are the real victims of a twisted Hamas ideology.

So Israel is allowed to defend itself but the Palestinians are not. That's a new concept...

Hamas has and is willing to negotiate. Is your dogma so thick you haven't realized that? FFS...

[[[[[[[[Hamas officials have stated several times that they are willing to stop attacks on Israeli civilian targets if Israel stops attacking Palestinian civilian targets in return. In May 2003, Abdel Aziz Rantisi has said, "The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terror against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians."]]]]]]]]]]]]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...rticle/ShowFull
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4n...art_complex.htm

This operation will do nothing but get Hamas more recruits. I'm disappointed you don't have the foresight to realize this action as completely counter-productive to Israel's goal of peace with its neighbors. It will not bring peace, and it will not make Israel safer. Have fun believing delusions...

Krypton why dont you take one of them green glowsticks and....































something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss No, but until you provide a reason to believe you don't despise Israel or Jews, I see no reason to think otherwise based on your anti-Jew rhetoric that you've been posting for some time.

Wow, what a pathetic attempt to derail this discussion. Please continue your despicable racist personal attacks, and while you'r at it, concede the debate...

quote:

Re-read what I said. IF the IDF finishes the job and roots out Hamas, you can't say their actions were counter-productive, because they will have achieved their objective. I didn't say they have officially finished the job.

The IDF will not root out Hamas. Reread what I wrote! The operation will not make Israel safer and will not bring about peace. Therefore, it's counter-productive.

quote:

So tell me, all knowing middle east expert Krypton, what will bring lasting peace then?

The more you address me personally, the more pathetic your arguments appear...

1. Israel withdraws ALL settlements from internationally recognized Palestinian land.
2. Israel cedes East Jerusalem.
3. All checkpoints and blockades are lifted.
4. Halt to all assassinations, raids, and air strikes.
5. Compensation to Palestinian refugees whose land was stolen.

You know treat people the way you'd want to be treated????

quote:

Because in Hamas' charter, it calls for the outright destruction of Israel. You are sadly naive if you think diplomacy will bring about lasting peace with such a group...

You are sadly naive to think Hamas is an existential threat to Israel. LOL. Hamas marching into Tel Aviv? More delusions.

quote:

and when it doesn't, you'll act shocked just like Jimmy Carter did when Brezhnev ordered an invasion of Afghanistan after Carter met with him a year earlier and Brezhnev said otherwise.... or when Carter had North Korea agree to a nulcer weapons treaty, only to be shocked again when it was broken shorty after.

Irrelevant.

quote:

All of you "diplomacy" Democrats actually believe this works, but you don't understand who you're dealing with. Those people don't think like Americans, and unfortunately it is a necessary evil to use violence. So it would seem lasting peace would require organizations such as Hamas, who call for the total destruction of Israel in their charter to be eliminated.

Diplomacy...diplomacy...hmm...it worked at preventing all-out nuclear holocaust. We'v negotiated with North Korea, North Vietnam, China and dictators of all sorts. And here you are actually claiming we can not do the same with the Palestinians who are more than willing to negotiate. Nothing comes from violence, and nothing ever could. I repeat, this operation will not bring peace, and will not make Israel safer. It will be a total failure.

quote:

What's my point??? That you're a silly little boy who doesn't understand how the real world works.

More pathetic cheap shots. Ready to concede this debate?

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Originally posted by Krypton Close borders yes, blockade, NO. Don't equate the two.

I'm curious: what is blockade, and what is "closing borders"? I mean, what do you think is the difference?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton What, didn't sink in? Give it time...

Great argument.
Keep it up.

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Originally posted by Krypton Tell your government to lift the blockade.

Will do. Just don't wait for me...brb.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant Krypton why dont you take one of them green glowsticks and....something like that.

You guys seem so adept at personally addressing me. What, have you run out of arguments?

quote:

Originally posted by buitre I'm curious: what is blockade, and what is "closing borders"? I mean, what do you think is the difference?

Closing the border is self explanatory. Do you know what a blockade is? Do I have to explain this to you...

Air, land, and sea denial of commerce...

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Great argument. Keep it up.

You'r the one whose response was "huh". Keep that shit up...

quote:

Will do. Just don't wait for me...brb.

Cute.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You guys seem so adept at personally addressing me. What, have you run out of arguments?

It's fun addressing someone whose so naive and ignorant on this issue.

BTW, you quoted Rantissi in one of your responses. Glad the IDF ransacked that ****** and killed him back in 2004 - he was one of Hamas's leading figures.

Well the EU is definitely on Israel's side. The Czech Republic, which currently holds the EU presidency (rotates every 6-12 months) has strongly backed Israel from the begining. Most of the population in Denmark has been siding with Israel. France's leader, Sarkozy, is a great ally of Israel. Now comes word that Italy's ministers are signalling that sometime in the future Israel will be joining the European Union. All the major European players are currently in Jerusalem, ISRAEL'S CAPITAL, even as we speak.
Guess what'll happen to Hamas and Hezbollah if they fire on Israel if it joins the EU? They'll have to deal with all of Europe as well.

It's very simple, really. Your entire argumentation is based on the premise that the violence against Israeli citizens will vanish once all these "demands" you're listing will be met. However, the organization that is repsonsible for these murders is itself saying otherwise, clearly, and has acted accordingly. Perhaps you know more than they do, though. Who knows! It seems you've basically decided to leave all logics behind you and just keep trolling for the heck of it. Enjoy.

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Well the EU is definitely on Israel's side. The Czech Republic, which currently holds the EU presidency (rotates every 6-12 months) has strongly backed Israel from the begining. Most of the population in Denmark has been siding with Israel. France's leader, Sarkozy, is a great ally of Israel. Now comes word that Italy's ministers are signalling that sometime in the future Israel will be joining the European Union. All the major European players are currently in Jerusalem, ISRAEL'S CAPITAL, even as we speak. Guess what'll happen to Hamas and Hezbollah if they fire on Israel if it joins the EU? They'll have to deal with all of Europe as well.

No offense, but this is something Israel should rather fear than look forward to

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Guess what'll happen to Hamas and Hezbollah if they fire on Israel if it joins the EU? They'll have to deal with all of Europe as well.

actually Europe and the rest of the world outside of the US has seen Israel show its true colours. i doubt very much the EU will ever let a rogue country that has no respect for international law join.

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles It's fun addressing someone whose so naive and ignorant on this issue. BTW, you quoted Rantissi in one of your responses. Glad the IDF ransacked that ****** and killed him back in 2004 - he was one of Hamas's leading figures.

It's fun pointing out that you can't argue without addressing me personally with pathetic ad hominems...fuck off twat..

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant It's very simple, really. Your entire argumentation is based on the premise that the violence against Israeli citizens will vanish once all these "demands" you're listing will be met. However, the organization that is repsonsible for these murders is itself saying otherwise, clearly, and has acted accordingly. Perhaps you know more than they do, though. Who knows! It seems you've basically decided to leave all logics behind you and just keep trolling for the heck of it. Enjoy.

We have fundamentally different point of views. Fucking deal with it or just fuck off. The more you people personally address me instead of my arguments, the more pathetic you look. Please continue...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton We have fundamentally different point of views. Fucking deal with it or just fuck off. The more you people personally address me instead of my arguments, the more pathetic you look. Please continue...

What is it then, fucking off or continuing?
Look, it's not a matter of different views, it's a matter of different levels. We don't look at the same building from different angles, I'm standing in front of the door while you're holding a brick in your hands pondering wtf that object is all about.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant What is it then, fucking off or continuing? Look, it's not a matter of different views, it's a matter of different levels. We don't look at the same building from different angles, I'm standing in front of the door while you're holding a brick in your hands pondering wtf that object is all about.

i'm going to stoop to your level
your an idiot
majority of you people are attacking krypton because your view is incredibly bias

krypton you are right, the more they attack u, the less credible their posts seem

Bwahahahahahahah ... this is too funny.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836660.stm

quote:

Some Israeli troops have already begun pulling out of the Gaza Strip, following a three-week offensive. Meanwhile, Ismail Haniya, the top Hamas leader in Gaza, said the Palestinians had won a great victory over Israel. "The enemy has failed to achieve its goals," he said in a speech broadcast on Hamas' Al-Aqsa TV.

Retarded. Especially when its obvious for Israel of the nature of Hamas, yet it still uses disproportionate force to kill over 350 children and 100 women (innocent civilians), along with other people. And achieved little if anything. I doubt that Hamas took a bit hit. Now that Israel is withdrawing, Hamas is retaking its lost positions!

Expect more of this in the future:

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20...=214&ar=1468wmv

Graduation Ceremony in Hamas Kindergarten VIDEO

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Closing the border is self explanatory. Do you know what a blockade is? Do I have to explain this to you... Air, land, and sea denial of commerce...

Land - we agreed it was Israel's right to close the border. Air - I don't see any problems for airplains to fly from Egypt to Gaza. Water - well, we don't want another Karine A, do we?

Anyway, I thought you could do better: "Blocakde-- the isolation by a warring nation of an enemy area by troops or warships to prevent passage of persons or supplies".
You see? "Enemy area".
One of Hamas' goals is the destruction of Israel, which makes them Israel's enemy. Ever since that party rules Gaza, Israel has announced it as a hostile entity and closed the border. And let's not forget the rocket attacks - as you already know, they never stopped since 2001.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You'r the one whose response was "huh". Keep that shit up...

You thought I was being cynic? I really didn't understand what you were trying to say there ...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Cute.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi actually Europe and the rest of the world outside of the US has seen Israel show its true colours. i doubt very much the EU will ever let a rogue country that has no respect for international law join.

Well you can doubt it all you want but the EU leaders showing a lot of interest in Israel's well being. They do not see it as a rogue state. They do however see Hamas as a terrorist organization, something the Italian prime minister strongly emphasized a few hours ago.
Fuerthermore, most of the protesters against Israel around Europe weren't Europe's whites/Christians. You know exactly who they were.

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