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@ Lira: Thanks.

RE: BDP. I've read that it's a disorder best treated by therapists who've had experience with Dissociative Identity Disorder; that it's pretty much a pre-cursor for having multiple personalities. As much of an asshole as these people can be, they certainly didn't get that way on their own volition.

Not excusing the behavior. Just saying.

mental illness is not a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby OK cause last time I checked I was arguing two things. 1. Suicide is tragic and affects people around the person who does it. 2. Suicide is selfish, inherently selfish because of the above, and because in the end the only true benefactor is the dead person. Just making sure we are all the same topic here.

1. I do not disagree... loss for whatever reason is tragic.

2. This is far more complicated than you portray it to be.

A person who is so deep within the realms of depression who is at the point where they believe the only relief that they can attain from their daily living hell is to end it entirely, is only thinking of escaping their torment.

If someone was burning alive, would you call them selfish for trying to escape the fire, rather than attempting to save the family photo albums?

I don't think selfishness and selflessness is a concept that really applies in this situation. Why? Because selfishness implies that one would make a decision considering only themselves and disregarding the implications it has on others. This arguably doesn't happen with a suicidal person. They are thinking only of 'escaping the burning fire' out of defense. To say that the person shouldn't choose to try and escape but rather get the albums because those mean so much to the rest of the family, is actually selfishness on the part of the family. You think that your own personal interests and desire to avoid temporary suffering from a death outweighs the daily, mental torment the suicidal person goes through.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I think this is where you guys are getting confused. If these people have deep, unsolvable mental issues than maybe some sort of assisted suicide program like we have in Washington State for terminally ill patients is valid. It still needs to be vetted by doctors and the families should be allowed to collect themselves and prepare themselves for the departure of their loved ones. Them going out and shooting themselves in the back yard with out telling anyone, or slicing their wrists in a bathtub, or hanging themselves from the rafters for a family member to stumble upon is NOT the way they should go about it. That is just going to hurt people.

For once, I completely agree with you on this point. The sad reality is however, our society doesn't think people should have a right to make a decision about whether they should or should not continue their own lives. As such, these people get desperate and do whatever they can... which unfortunately results in some pretty awful situations.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby But you agree a sudden and violent departure is not a good way to handle it right? I mean not allowing the families to get their books in order is just going to cause harm to them.

THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE!!

____________________________________

As for the guy who talked about someone killing someone and then offing themselves....

A homicidal person is undoubtedly mentally ill, without question. Chances are, they did what they did and had a moment of clarity, realized that what they did was so beyond awful and terrible that the only thing they could think to do was to end it for themselves. Who would possibly want to live with themselves after doing something that horrid?

People need to look beyond their scope of 'normal thinking' and assumptions that everyone else has the same abilities. There are people out there who cannot think 'normally', and suffer with debilitating thoughts day in and day out. They cannot control it, and anyone in that state would probably give their arm and leg to get rid of the illness.

To be angry at someone who suffered daily, who struggled with simple functioning, for wanting to just stop it and relieve themselves of their personal "burning alive", is pure stupidity and selfishness on their part.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa A homicidal person is undoubtedly mentally ill, without question.

Why do you think that?

I was watching Medium, the other night, before heading off to sleepy land and the protagonist had a monologue where she recalled a New Yorker article about a psychologist who interviewed every survivor she could find. Apparently all of them said that about 2/3rds of the way down, they realized that none of the problems they faced, causing them to jump in the first place, weren't insurmountable and, indeed, were solvable.

I looked and did find an article and it did say that most of the survivors had similar realizations but without the 2/3rds detail.

quote:

Survivors often regret their decision in midair, if not before. Ken Baldwin and Kevin Hines both say they hurdled over the railing, afraid that if they stood on the chord they might lose their courage. Baldwin was twenty-eight and severely depressed on the August day in 1985 when he told his wife not to expect him home till late. �I wanted to disappear,� he said. �So the Golden Gate was the spot. I�d heard that the water just sweeps you under.� On the bridge, Baldwin counted to ten and stayed frozen. He counted to ten again, then vaulted over. �I still see my hands coming off the railing,� he said. As he crossed the chord in flight, Baldwin recalls, �I instantly realized that everything in my life that I�d thought was unfixable was totally fixable�except for having just jumped.� Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/20...t#ixzz0kMoLbiVS

I don't buy rationalizations for committing suicide. It just doesn't cut it. I think that people just do a really good job of convincing themselves to do a lot of really stupid shit. Are they victims? In every since of the word and they have my full sympathy - every single one. That still doesn't negate the fact that suicide, excepting terminally ill people in pain, is a stupid and selfish thing to do.

Nou hasnt dealt with suicide his mom has. Nou has dealt with shit all other then male heriditary baldness and who ate the left of the frankenberry cereal. He's made out of the same shit twinkies are made out of.

You're such a badass, Vivid.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker That still doesn't negate the fact that suicide, excepting terminally ill people in pain, is a stupid and selfish thing to do.

so mentally ill people have no pain?

dumb dumb dumb dumb dummmmmmmmb

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles You're such a badass, Vivid.

nou is a bitch. If you want to defend a ****** i hope you and him shoot yourselves in the temple with the same gun nou's unlce used while smiling and waving goodbye to nou's mom. fuck you.

quote:

Originally posted by epicaricacy so mentally ill people have no pain? dumb dumb dumb dumb dummmmmmmmb

That's a straw-man logical fallacy and using one with me on this, of all topics, is dumb.












This is exactly what I'm talking about when people convince themselves to make stupid decisions. Try thinking before you post, next time.

quote:

Originally posted by EricB. nou is a bitch. If you want to defend a ****** i hope you and him shoot yourselves in the temple with the same gun nou's unlce used while smiling and waving goodbye to nou's mom. fuck you.

He didnt shoot himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby He didnt shoot himself.

what does it matter you werent alive. who cares how it was done.

Mr nou in the kitchen with the candlestick.

quote:

As he crossed the chord in flight, Baldwin recalls, �I instantly realized that everything in my life that I�d thought was unfixable was totally fixable�except for having just jumped.�

I love this quote, and I've been in love with it since the day I first read it.

Thanks for posting it again, Eddie

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker That's a straw-man logical fallacy and using one with me on this, of all topics, is dumb. This is exactly what I'm talking about when people convince themselves to make stupid decisions. Try thinking before you post, next time.

answer the question.

quote:

Originally posted by EricB. nou is a bitch. If you want to defend a ****** i hope you and him shoot yourselves in the temple with the same gun nou's unlce used while smiling and waving goodbye to nou's mom. fuck you.

Easy there, Eric, calm down. I know Nou's ideas are polemic and somewhat ill-founded but attacking him and Brian like that does no good

quote:

Originally posted by EricB. what does it matter you werent alive. who cares how it was done. Mr nou in the kitchen with the candlestick.

You act like I am really roiling in pain about this. You are right, it was before I was born. It didn't effect me. I also do not let my parents emotions affect me.

Obviously from your reactionary and violent posts I have touched a nerve in you though, and for that I am sorry. I hope you deal with whatever issue it is that you have gotten so upset about. It wasn't my intention with this thread. Its far more an academic experience than it is any sort of personal or emotional one for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Easy there, Eric, calm down. I know Nou's ideas are polemic and somewhat ill-founded but attacking him and Brian like that does no good

maybe so but its fun.

we attack everyone for posting up personal information, serious threads make no difference. If Nou is free to troll a serious thread i believe one is free to personally attack in one as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You act like I am really roiling in pain about this. You are right, it was before I was born. It didn't affect me. I also do not let my parents emotions affect me. Obviously from your reactionary and violent posts I have touched a nerve in you though, and for that I am sorry. I hope you deal with whatever issue it is that you have gotten so upset about. It wasn't my intention with this thread. Its far more an academic experience than it is any sort of personal or emotional one for me.

You should have thought about that before you posted false information regarding DA. You talk alot of shit and grab at anything to validate your points, even make up bullshit. That is my problem with you in this thread.

However, like i said if you were anyone other then nou i would probably just let it slide and not give a fuck. However, since you habitually do this i feel there is a need to attack whenever you do.

In an earlier post you said DA was not out getting help meanwhile the whole time he was. You just make up random shit sometimes, and when its something about someone I know, I get upset.

I am not the only person you pissed off in this thread though. I only met DA a few times

I can't believe this is still going on..

quote:

Originally posted by epicaricacy answer the question.

What question?

quote:

Originally posted by EricB. You should have thought about that before you posted false information regarding DA. You talk alot of shit and grab at anything to validate your points, even make up bullshit. That is my problem with you in this thread. However, like i said if you were anyone other then nou i would probably just let it slide and not give a fuck. However, since you habitually do this i feel there is a need to attack whenever you do. In an earlier post you said DA was not out getting help meanwhile the whole time he was. You just make up random shit sometimes, and when its something about someone I know, I get upset. I am not the only person you pissed off in this thread though. I only met DA a few times

It was obvious from how DA acted on Ourboard that he was NOT getting help. He posted there for a number of years after he quit here and I do not believe you are a member of that forum, so kindly fuck off when you say I didn't know what was going on.

It was very clear, not only to me, but I am sure to many many other that he had a death wish for a very long time.

What is "Ourboard?"

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles What is "Ourboard?"

It's a secret forum!@ A SECRET FORUM!! HERE AT TA!!! OMG!

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie WHY YES!

Awesome

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