TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War?
Pages (54): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 »

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T just a question out of curiosity - are all hezbollah 'soldiers' fighting this war in standardized uniforms? if not, how can they be distinguished from civilians post mortem?

great point, that's what I'm thinking too.

Jews don't care if they are civilians or Hezabollah they shoot all.

This all stems from the creation of the state of Israel which was a disgraceful act done after WW2.

Think about it

Putting millions of jews from Europe and transplanting them into the middle of the Arab World, displacing millions more Muslim Arabs.

Creating a country out of an existing country.

Ridiculous i think, and all the problems go back to then that are now.

The Jewish race is one of the weirdest in the world, they dont really have a distinct home or country, they are in fact the 3nd gypsie race of the world after the Romas and the Skops.


FACT LADS!

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie

um...



You scare me, Mr. Terrorist.

LOl not quite the image i should be sending! lol Its been there for a cpl years!


Removed, i understand the touchiness such a subject can occur!

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid Jews don't care if they are civilians or Hezabollah they shoot all.

Well its not like its the IDF's policy that civilian kills are ok, but they have a huge reputation for it. Its prolly cause of the lack of disciplinary action if a civilian is killed.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie This all stems from the creation of the state of Israel which was a disgraceful act done after WW2. Think about it Putting millions of jews from Europe and transplanting them into the middle of the Arab World, displacing millions more Muslim Arabs. Creating a country out of an existing country. Ridiculous i think, and all the problems go back to then that are now. The Jewish race is one of the weirdest in the world, they dont really have a distinct home or country, they are in fact the 3nd gypsie race of the world after the Romas and the Skops. FACT LADS!

Its Hitlers fault then. Or should we just group up all the Germans & blame them.?

Mate violence in any form shouldnt be tolerated...The fact is the decision 60 or so years ago to place israel in a place surrounded by arab countries, was asking for trouble no?

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer lol looks like you area about to get a heart attack. p.s. Get lost you filthy zionist.

Heart attack? If I was to ever get worked up enough over an animal like yourself to the point of a heart attack, I think i would actually deserve death. You, on the other hand, have to live your life with the knowledge that nothing you do or say in toronto can ever stop Israel. You should take a trip to Lebanon, Syria or Iran and sign up with your friends to stop the filthy Zionist war machine. Send pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie This all stems from the creation of the state of Israel which was a disgraceful act done after WW2. Think about it Putting millions of jews from Europe and transplanting them into the middle of the Arab World, displacing millions more Muslim Arabs. Creating a country out of an existing country. FACT LADS!

from what i understand, there was no country there when Israel was created...i dont think there has been a country there since Biblical times

on this basis, Israel has as much a right as Palestine to exist. for me this isnt the condemnable concept

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie Mate violence in any form shouldnt be tolerated...The fact is the decision 60 or so years ago to place israel in a place surrounded by arab countries, was asking for trouble no?

I agree it was asking for trouble & the powers that be at the time knew it. BUT... I just dont think they thought the trouble would last 60 years. Also.. i dont think they knew that Israels foreign policy would be to invade & occupy other countrys for most of Israels existence. When u invade & occupy a country, your asking for trouble. What would the people of Israel do if america stopped funding them & in a matter of years Israel was overrun & occupied by muslims.? But they are quick to point the finger & call every1 terrorists because the terorrists are attempting to defend thier country from an invader. According to that the fictional American patriotic movie Red Dawn is a movie about american terrorism. When it was just american citizens fighting off a Russian & Cuban invaders.

So sven what about my last point...in essence before the Jewish got this land they were in fact considered as a gypsy race? I think you will find arab countries occupied the country for 1700 years before the british, before that might of been the jewish not too sure, but i just find it funny, how a decision was made to give land out to the the jewish where its surrounded by arab countries, and was previously occupied for over 1700 years by the arabs.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie So sven what about my last point...in essence before the Jewish got this land they were in fact considered as a gypsy race? I think you will find arab countries occupied the country for 1700 years before the british, before that might of been the jewish not too sure, but i just find it funny, how a decision was made to give land out to the the jewish where its surrounded by arab countries, and was previously occupied for over 1700 years by the arabs.

to be honest, i havent really researched this properly, but going on wikipedia for a guide, the area has been continually occupied by 'outside' powers from Rome to the Turkish Ottoman Empire, then was mandated by the League of Nations to the British..one of whose ministers, declared it should be a land for the Jews. (Balfour himself was 'anti-semitic' and wanted rid of the Jews.)

i cant answer why THAT area was designated..possibly due to religious claims, but it wasnt the only one, there was sites for example in Siberia, and Uganda that were also considered.

the Jewish 'race' is only really a 'gypsy race' as far as the Hebrew-semites...who were expelled from their land a long time ago and never returned.

as i have mentioned earlier, 'semites' are (according to wiki) also appilciable to Christians and Muslims, so i dont know (going on that factual assumption) how acurate it is to distinguish Jews from Arabs? why is it then such a strange decision to accomodate them there..and would Uganda not then be an even stranger decision

please excuse my ignorance if any of this is wrong, as i havent done my own research into this yet.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX I must say, even though i was refusing to take sides on this it does keep looking like the death tolls are disproportionate eh? Israeli civilians dead -> aprox. 12, Lebanese civilians dead -> aprox. (given the 'vast majority') 100, if not more. How long really can Israel keep justifying these attacks if they keep killing innocent people and not hezbollah milicia?

Israeli's death toll would have been much highr unless we'de obeyed army's orders (getting into shelters etc.), more than 1000 missiles have been launched by Hezbollah, causing massive property damage.
Hezbollah is taking this war to the citizens' villages and homes.

quote:

Originally posted by epsilon1 Hezbollah is taking this war to the citizens' villages and homes.

IDF has been doing the same to the poor palestinians for years and nothing has been done about it.you are getting a taste of your own medicine.ENJOY IT.

I was someone who once took the time to understand Israel's position for years in the Mid East but to see what is happening to those Lebanese who rose up against Syria to force them to leave and now this reward makes me disheartened at the way this thing played out. From this response by Israel one would be left with the feeling that a blitzkrieg was being visited upon Israel from the mighty Lebanese army.

If Israel wants to get rid of Hezbollah at any price then so be it, but I cannot get over those who had nothing to do with this situation paying a price so high for a long desired and well planned decision by Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie This all stems from the creation of the state of Israel which was a disgraceful act done after WW2. Think about it Putting millions of jews from Europe and transplanting them into the middle of the Arab World, displacing millions more Muslim Arabs. Creating a country out of an existing country. Ridiculous i think, and all the problems go back to then that are now. The Jewish race is one of the weirdest in the world, they dont really have a distinct home or country, they are in fact the 3nd gypsie race of the world after the Romas and the Skops. FACT LADS!

dude go learn some history before making a fool out of yourself.

the "millions" (there never were "millions") of jews immigrated from europe because they suffered in europe.
at that time (end of 19th century, beginning of 20th century) there was a massive immigration wave from eastern europe to the rest of the world. aprox. 20,000 jews from that 'wave' decided to immigrate to Israel, to settle along side the other jews who lived here.
at that time the Ottoman Empire ruled this region and allowed the immigration of the jews (yet with many prohibitions) like many other countries which allowed immigration. the jewish people who came bought the lands they settled on, and the arabs couldn't care less.
later, before and during ww1, aprox. 10,000 jews immigrated here. after the war, the Ottoman Empire was defeated, so all of its territories were given to Britain and France. so in 1922 the League of Nations passed the Palestine Mandate, which among other things was an obligation to the Balfour Declaration - an establishment of a jewish national home in these lands.
so time goes by...and at some point the british got sick of the problems they've had here (fights between jews and arabs mainly, which most of them the arabs initiated - 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-1939). so they turn to the UN to decide what to do with this region. the UN decides to end the British mandate, and to divide it into a jewish state and an arab state. the jewish leadership accepted the decision, the arab leadership didn't.
in the end of the last day of the british mandate, Israel declared its independence. then, the arabs decided to strike the jewish state (Israel), with help from other countries (Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon etc.)
the war ends, we win, and the borders of that same jewish state (called Israel) were expanded.
later there were some other wars between Israel and the arabs, so the Israeli borders expanded some more after each war.

and by the way, there was no 'country' prior to the state of Israel in this exact region (the Ottomans ruled it, but it was a part of their empire).

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T just a question out of curiosity - are all hezbollah 'soldiers' fighting this war in standardized uniforms? if not, how can they be distinguished from civilians post mortem?

Dont know, im taking it at face value since im not the one doing the body counting and in the past the NY Times has been pretty reliable. Also notice i diminished the number of civilians to 50% in my post, when clearly a vast majority would be at least over 50%.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie So sven what about my last point...in essence before the Jewish got this land they were in fact considered as a gypsy race? I think you will find arab countries occupied the country for 1700 years before the british, before that might of been the jewish not too sure, but i just find it funny, how a decision was made to give land out to the the jewish where its surrounded by arab countries, and was previously occupied for over 1700 years by the arabs.

Im sorry to have to say this but this point, 'the creation of israel being the root of the problem' has been addressed already And the rebuttal was a very good one, namely that because we cant do anything about this 'root of the problem' short of disbanding the israeli state, which would not make sense, there is no point in using this argument in this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX ... short of disbanding the israeli state...

That sounds like a delicious solution.

wholly crap, everyone take a step back and listen to yourselves. i know that this is a hot issue right now but we are all human beings and we deserve to be treated that way. i think we are all capable of engaging in INTELLIGENT debate without resorting to calling people zionists, sand ******s, jews etc.....


hardcore trancer and cyrus king, you make me ashamed to live in the same country as you. if you harbor these racist views, do us all a favor and keep them to yourself, or get the fuck out of my country.


im not choosing sides int his conflict, but i will say that at least the israeli people have the balls to stand behind what they are doing weather or not it is wrong, they admit that they are doing it. which is more than i can say for the lebanese gov who claim to have no controll over hizbollah and allow them to continue escalating this conflict.

i dont think any of us are capable of preaching about this unless your currently in lebanon / israel / palestine right now. have a heart people. there are people there right now who have rockets flying over their houses, bombs and artilery fire landing outside their doors.

Get some moderation in your posts people, there is no need to be bombing each other over the internet as well....


my $0.02

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp i dont think any of us are capable of preaching about this unless your currently in lebanon / israel / palestine right now. have a heart people. there are people there right now who have rockets flying over their houses, bombs and artilery fire landing outside their doors.

Thing is that since we only have middle class/upper class israelis in this board and in this thread the "preaching" is a bit unbalanced, and i think truly even if israel did get transgressed they are not the ones getting the short end of the stick on this. Lebanon is a poor country from what i can reckon and now its being blown to pieces by its wealthy neighbour. I still believe that israel should step back now and consider other ways of obtaining what they want, they have the support of the world right now and have the upper hand, if they keep this campaign going they are going to loose public support on this one, just as the states and the 'war on terror'.

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp i dont think any of us are capable of preaching about this unless your currently in lebanon / israel / palestine right now.

All the israelis here, except psy-t, are waving their flag in our faces saying they're hot shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Temperate That sounds like a delicious solution.

yeah? well too bad you can't do anything about it.

you bring up a good point venom, but i was more refering to the hostility that some members were showing each other. the racist comments and such dont benefit the discussion and frankly discredit what they're trying to say entirely.

at some point, hopefully soon, one side needs to back down and end the sensless violence. but i do see the point as to why israel is sticking to their guns on this. in order to stop the extreemist activity they have to take a hardline at some point. if they were to just bend to the hizbollah's demands to get the two soldiers back, how long would it have been before they kidnapped more soldiers?

I do understand that when fighting a guerilla style enemie that doesnt conform to the standard combattant image of a uniform, structured ranks etc, but i think israel needs to take more restraint and not make the same mistakes the americans have made in iraq. Too many iraqis have been killed because of "bad intelligence"......

Jesus was a carpenter, and the carpenter saying is "measure twice cut once"

quote:

Originally posted by ronk yeah? well too bad you can't do anything about it.

Sure I can. Get MY government to stop supporting you. Then you've basically got nothing. You can trade some citrus fruits if you want, but you can't last on that forever.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.