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-- Israeli air strikes on Gaza kill 192
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Bwahahahahahahah ... this is too funny. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836660.stm Retarded. Especially when its obvious for Israel of the nature of Hamas, yet it still uses disproportionate force to kill over 350 children and 100 women (innocent civilians), along with other people. And achieved little if anything. I doubt that Hamas took a bit hit. Now that Israel is withdrawing, Hamas is retaking its lost positions! Expect more of this in the future: http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20...=214&ar=1468wmv Graduation Ceremony in Hamas Kindergarten VIDEO |
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| Originally posted by CHRles So you start off with this whole bwahahaha this is too funny then you talk about how "innocent" people die in Gaza. Oh yeah, sounds real funny. It's funny that Hamas thinks the IDF killing hundreds and hundreds of Hamas supporters means some sort of victory for Hamas. It's funny when so many homes in Gaza are up in smoke yet Hamas can claim victory. It's funny that Hamas wanted to ensure that the IDF killed as many Gazan babies and afterwards claim a great victory? I suppose that if by getting bombed back to the stone age means a victory then Hamas did acheive its mission. Well done Hamas, you've made Gaza an even bigger shitthole then it was |
Well you actually summed it up pretty well when you said there are no winners in this conflict.
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer I cant wait to see those IDF killers face international trials and pay for their war crimes against humanity. |
......meanwhile greater Jerusalem is being annexed effectively by a wall.
Chrles-"you know who they are" regarding protesters. you are making a huge generalization there buddy.
what do you mean...arab? muslim? combo? this is absolutely a bullshit statement. people from all walks of life are protesting(jews included)
hey, here's a fun fact, Im from Iraq but im not arab or muslim, and i was a part of a protest....oh wait I could still count in your "you know who they are" category.
and have some respect for those who have been killed. labelling them all as Hamas supporters when a third of them are children...ffs
the attacking on Krypton labelling him as an anti jew is outrageous. He criticizes ZIONISM, dont equate that with being anti jew or anti israeli.
there are 67 borders to comply to. you dont gain territory ina defensive war. but israel breaks the rules.
I doubt they will ever give back east jerusalem. golan heights. the "security zone" of the west bank.
ffs how is a country thats not geographically in europe eligable for EU. Only in Israel ...i understand for sports leagues, since arab nations wont host them...bust seriously-just another special treatment of Rograel
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| Originally posted by Lemonad They will never see justice because as mentioned before, they are the cancer holding America hostage, and America will never let it's tumor down. |
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| Originally posted by DJ Damerchi the attacking on Krypton labelling him as an anti jew is outrageous. He criticizes ZIONISM, dont equate that with being anti jew or anti israeli. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton Wow, what a pathetic attempt to derail this discussion. Please continue your despicable racist personal attacks, and while you'r at it, concede the debate...  |
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| The IDF will not root out Hamas. Reread what I wrote! The operation will not make Israel safer and will not bring about peace. Therefore, it's counter-productive. |
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The more you address me personally, the more pathetic your arguments appear... 1. Israel withdraws ALL settlements from internationally recognized Palestinian land. 2. Israel cedes East Jerusalem. 3. All checkpoints and blockades are lifted. 4. Halt to all assassinations, raids, and air strikes. 5. Compensation to Palestinian refugees whose land was stolen. You know treat people the way you'd want to be treated???? |
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| You are sadly naive to think Hamas is an existential threat to Israel. LOL. Hamas marching into Tel Aviv? More delusions. |
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| Diplomacy...diplomacy...hmm...it worked at preventing all-out nuclear holocaust. We'v negotiated with North Korea, North Vietnam, China and dictators of all sorts. |
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| Originally posted by CHRles Well you can doubt it all you want but the EU leaders showing a lot of interest in Israel's well being. They do not see it as a rogue state. They do however see Hamas as a terrorist organization, something the Italian prime minister strongly emphasized a few hours ago. Fuerthermore, most of the protesters against Israel around Europe weren't Europe's whites/Christians. You know exactly who they were. |
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| Rights groups to ask world court to probe Israel 'war crimes' 1 day ago GENEVA (AFP) � An international group of lawyers and jurists said Saturday they would ask the International Criminal Court to probe alleged "war crimes" committed by Israel during its offensive in the Gaza Strip. "The request for an investigation into war crimes and crimes against humanity would be placed by Wednesday at The Hague," Haytham Manna, Arab Commission for Human Rights spokesman, told AFP. The commission is among 300 human rights groups planning to submit a 37-page dossier to the ICC based in the Netherlands. International lawyers and jurists met Saturday in Geneva to finalise details of the dossier, which documents several violations against international human rights committed by the Israeli army during the Gaza offensive, said Manna. The ICC is competent to adjudicate war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide committed after 2002. It can try individuals if a crime is alleged to have been committed on the territory of, or by a national of, a state party to the court's founding statute. Even though Israel is not a state member, the group of jurists said the ICC could still prosecute individuals in the country. Manna added that some state members such as Venezuela and Bolivia are also interested in going to the ICC. As state members of the ICC, these countries can go one step further than simply requesting for an investigation by putting forward the charge against the Israeli authorities, said Manna. Bolivia is preparing a request seeking to have Israel prosecuted by the ICC, two ministers said Friday in Geneva. The South American state says it wants to muster support among regional peers for a bid to have "the Israeli political and military leaders responsible for the offensive on the Gaza Strip" brought before justice, said Sacha Llorenti, whose portfolio covers civil society. Venezuela and Bolivia on Wednesday broke diplomatic ties with Israel over its deadly military offensive in the Gaza Strip and refusal to comply with international calls for a ceasefire, their leftist governments said. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced late Saturday a halt in the three-week-old Gaza offensive, which left more than 1,200 Palestinians dead. |
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Israel stands accused of perpetrating a series of war crimes during a sustained 12-hour assault on a village in southern Gaza last week in which 14 people died. In testimony collected from residents of the village of Khuza'a by the Observer, it is claimed that Israeli soldiers entering the village: � attempted to bulldoze houses with civilians inside; � killed civilians trying to escape under the protection of white flags; � opened fire on an ambulance attempting to reach the wounded; � used indiscriminate force in a civilian area and fired white phosphorus shells. If the allegations are upheld, all the incidents would constitute breaches of the Geneva conventions. The denunciations over what happened in Khuza'a follow repeated claims of possible human rights violations from the Red Cross, the UN and human rights organisations. The Israeli army announced yesterday that it was investigating "at the highest level" five other attacks against civilians in Gaza, involving two UN facilities and a hospital. It added that in all cases initial investigations suggested soldiers were responding to fire. "These claims of war crimes are not supported by the slightest piece of evidence," said Yigal Palmor, an Israeli foreign ministry spokesman. Concern over what occurred in the village of Khuza'a in the early hours of Tuesday was first raised by the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem. Although an Israeli military spokesman said he had "no information that this alleged incident took place", witness statements collected by the Observer are consistent and match testimony gathered by B'Tselem. There is also strong visible evidence that Khuza'a came under a sustained attack from tanks and bulldozers that smashed some buildings to pieces. Pictures taken by photographer Bruno Stevens in the aftermath show heavy damage - and still burning phosphorus. "What I can tell you is that many, many houses were shelled and that they used white phosphorus," said Stevens yesterday, one of the first western journalists to get into Gaza. "It appears to have been indiscriminate." Stevens added that homes near the village that had not been hit by shell fire had been set on fire. The village of Khuza'a is around 500 metres from the border with Israel. According to B'Tselem, its field researcher in Gaza was contacted last Tuesday by resident Munir Shafik al-Najar, who said that Israeli bulldozers had begun destroying homes at 2.30am. When Rawhiya al-Najar, aged 50, stepped out of her house waving a white flag, so that the rest of the family could leave the house, she was allegedly shot by Israeli soldiers nearby. The second alleged incident was on Tuesday afternoon, when Israeli troops ordered 30 residents to leave their homes and walk to a school in the village centre. After travelling 20 metres, troops fired on the group, allegedly killing three. Further detailed accounts of what occurred were supplied in interviews given to a Palestinian researcher who has been working for the Observer, following the decision by Israel to ban foreign media from the Gaza Strip. Iman al-Najar, 29, said she watched as bulldozers started to destroy neighbours' homes and saw terrified villagers flee from their houses as masonry collapsed. "By 6am the tanks and bulldozers had reached our house," Iman recalled. "We went on the roofs and tried to show we were civilians with white flags. Everyone was carrying a white flag. We told them we are civilians. We don't have any weapons. The soldiers started to destroy the houses even if the people were in them." Describing the death of Rawhiya, Iman says they were ordered by Israeli soldiers to move to the centre of the town. As they did, Israeli troops opened fire. Rawhiya was at the front of the group, says Iman. Marwan Abu Raeda, 40, a paramedic working for the Nasser hospital in Khan Younis, said: "At 8am we received a phone call from Khuza'a. They told us about the injured woman. I went immediately. I was 60 or 70 metres away from the injured woman when the Israeli forces started to shoot at me." As he drove into another street, he came under fire again. Twelve hours later, when Rawhiya was finally reached, she was dead. Iman said she ended up in an area of rubble where a large group of people had sought cover in a deep hole among the debris of demolished houses. It is then, she says, that bulldozers began to push the rubble from each side. "They wanted to bury us alive," she said. |
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| Originally posted by buitre Land - we agreed it was Israel's right to close the border. Air - I don't see any problems for airplains to fly from Egypt to Gaza. Water - well, we don't want another Karine A, do we? |
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| Anyway, I thought you could do better: "Blocakde-- the isolation by a warring nation of an enemy area by troops or warships to prevent passage of persons or supplies". You see? "Enemy area". |
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| One of Hamas' goals is the destruction of Israel, which makes them Israel's enemy. Ever since that party rules Gaza, Israel has announced it as a hostile entity and closed the border. And let's not forget the rocket attacks - as you already know, they never stopped since 2001. |
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| You thought I was being cynic? I really didn't understand what you were trying to say there ... |
if israel's actions are logical, and if it can win an all-out war with palestine without committing war crimes... why would it commit them?
in other words, if both of those conditions are met, a logical deduction can be made that israel is not committing war crimes.
i'm not claiming either condition is met though, i'm not involved enough to know.
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| Originally posted by Krypton You'r more than welcome to provide a counter-argument other than "huh", if you don't want a smart ass comment from yours truly... |
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| Originally posted by The17sss I can do without the cynical smily faces. Go ahead and accuse my comments of being despicable and racist... talk about the pot calling the ketal black. This coming from the biggest defender of the Palestinian cause since Arafat. To side with them makes you a racist against the Jews by fiat. |
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| I was responding you to mincing my words, which came before whatever you're asking me to re-read. |
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| Thanks for the lesson in the Golden Rule, Jesus. You think doing all of the above would end the conflict and restore peace? |
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| God man, you're so... ugh! They will just find another way and reason to hate Jews. |
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| In reference you number 4... are you forgetting that over 6500 rockets have flown into Israel since 2003? But that's justified, and Israel has no right to defend itself or even respond because in your eyes, they haven't achieved the other goals you set forth. Dude call up Obama... get a spot on his foreign policy team stat and tell them you have the solution to mid-east peace. Go get 'em, tiger! |
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| Could there be a weaker rationalization? Lets say one of Canada's militant muslim groups who calls for "death to America" lofts 50 rockets over the border into Buffalo, NY. By your rationale, there's no justification for the U.S. to do anything about it because they pose no existential threat to this country. |
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| From today---> North Korea: We've Weaponized Enough Plutonium for 5 Nuclear Bombs. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/200...-nuclearweapons How's that work for your argument? Another epic fail on your part. And yeah, those Chinese and other dictators sure aren't doin whatever the fuck they want when they want. |
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| Originally posted by Psy-T "huh" is most likely a request for a rephrase of the original argument rather than a counterargument. |
The Israel Lobby
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z I didn't know you were such a brainwashed racist asshole devoid of any principle or honor. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton LOL. Are you incapable of focusing on the argument, or can you not control your urge to hurl pathetic insults my way...Cynical smilies are my trademark! Tell you what, I'll tone it down if you tone it down... |
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| I didn't know you could tell the future? |
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| As for Obama, I sincerely hope he cuts off all military aide for Israel unless they meet certain conditions under international law, namely, dismantling all settlements, lifting the blockade, and ceding East Jerusalem. |
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| Now that we have uprooted thousands of Jews and empowered Gazans to be masters of their own fate, can we hope that within a year's time there will be fewer refugees in the camps? "Absolutely not," he said. "The refugees will be relocated only in the context of the final status [agreement]. How can we move them if we do not know where they will live? Maybe they will live in Israel." In withdrawing from Gaza, Israel made painful concessions for peace by forcibly removing Jews from their homes. And yet even the Palestinian Authority, the most moderate among Palestinian political groups, would not consider easing their own people's plight in the wake of Israel's compromise. This is because the suffering of the refugees is essential to their broader political struggle. How does the West respond to the obvious exploitation of Palestinian refugees? Soon after my meeting with Mr. Abbas's chief of staff, I met with the ambassador of one of the West's most enlightened countries. I asked: Why are the Palestinians not willing to help their own refugees? "I can understand them," he answered. "After all, they don't want the refugee problem to be taken off the agenda." |
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| Horrible, horrible analogy. First off, these "Canadian militant muslims groups"...LOL...are not an elected party. Secondly, the USA does not occupy nor blockade Canada. |
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| You assumed we kept our part of the bargain? LOL. Tisk tisk. What do you mean China and "other dictators" don't do whatever the fuck they want when they want? China/Sudan/Darfur. Thought about that one? Egypt tortures and suppresses dissent. Hmmm...Saudi Arabia is an extremist theocratic monarchy. LOL. Our government is so full of bullshit. They lie to us through their teeth, and its unfortunate that many take them at their very word, unquestionably. |
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| "It will be wrong if the United States thinks that we are giving up nuclear programme in exchange for normalising diplomatic ties with them," a spokesman was quoted as saying by the official Korea Central News Agency. Despite an agreement struck at the six-nation talks in Beijing, North Korea has delayed dismantling its nuclear weapons programme, amid disagreements over verification rules and energy aid. |
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| Originally posted by Arbiter Come on now, I am sure you can do much better than that. That's just boring. |
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| Originally posted by Arbiter Now, I already knew you were a nugatory, pusillanimous toad, rife with pernicious quixotism and vulgar sentiment. I have never held it against you, though. To be prickly to what is small, after all, is only wisdom for hedgehogs. |
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| Originally posted by The17sss alright alright... I don't want to go any further with you anyway because I like you. I just don't like your arguments the way I see them in the PDD most of the time. Tone, officially down. |
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| It's based on past history... no matter what the Jews do, they are hated. First it was for being a wandering people with no home who had no business taking up space in other peoples' countries, then they were hated for having a country they called home. It's just the way it is; it has gone on forever and it will go on forever. |
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| You know that will never happen. And how come you never mention the thousands of Israeli families that were uprooted from Gaza in 2005 when Israel agreed to withdraw from there? This question was posed to Mahmoud Abbas in 2005 right after the withdrawel (by Natan Sharansky): |
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| Can't you see how the people you so ardently defend exploit their own people so "disgustingly", as you like to put it? |
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| Obviously, it was a hypothetical... I thought you'd see the point I was trying to make. |
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| Ok man... you'll have to re-read again. I said "And yeah, those Chinese and other dictators sure aren't doin whatever the fuck they want when they want" complete with an eye roll icon showing sarcasm.... meaning, they obviously DO do whatever they want regardless of the diplomacy that you champoin. Don't forget about Hugo Chavez too. In N. Korea.... we didn't keep our end of the bargain? Look what 10 years of liberal S. Korean diplomacy policies got for them... an even more defiant N. Korea now threatening to destroy them with their newly proclaimed nukes. From the article---> They are the ones not following the rules. They aren't even allowing UN inspectors in there, which is THEM breaking the agreement. Why are you so quick to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt to countries run by crazy dictators? |
There's a youtube video someone had sent me a few weeks back that hits home with this topic. Watch closely, especially after the 2 minute 25 second mark. It's the kind of stuff people like Krypton will never truly understand, or will want to understand:
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSfeNkJgBI
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| Originally posted by Krypton |
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| Originally posted by CHRles There's a youtube video someone had sent me a few weeks back that hits home with this topic. Watch closely, especially after the 2 minute 25 second mark. It's the kind of stuff people like Krypton will never truly understand, or will want to understand: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSfeNkJgBI |
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| Originally posted by CHRles There's a youtube video someone had sent me a few weeks back that hits home with this topic. Watch closely, especially after the 2 minute 25 second mark. It's the kind of stuff people like Krypton will never truly understand, or will want to understand: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSfeNkJgBI |
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| Originally posted by The17sss nice find CHRles... like I said, it's "en vogue" to hate jews and blame them for everything, and no matter what concessions thay make or who they appease, there will just be new reasons found to hate them. This video is a good example of that. |
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