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-- Official 2006-2007 NBA Season Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 haha my credibility is shot because I KNOW basketball and go out on a limb and say something not many ppl agree with?? Why do I think KOBE BRYANT is the best OFFENSIVE player every 2 play? HERE WE GO 1) I dont remember any 7 footers that play like shooting guards back in jordans days (Nowitzki,Wallace)? 7 footers that are freakish athletes that can jump on top of the hoop (Amare, D-Howard, Garnett, J-Oneal)? 2) Who were Jordans defenders when he was playing? I cant even think of 1 Shooting Guard that is even CLOSE to the caliber to the likes of hmm lets think here...LEBRON, WADE, MELO, did Jordan have to guard players like those, no KOBE does. Jordan averaged 37.1 points in 1986-87, take a guess who was all defensive team for guards that year? Done thinking....Alvin Robertson and Dennis Johnson? Those players as good as the Shooting guards 2day? 3)Jordan was surrounded by one of if not THE BEST supporting cast, players that played because they KNEW their role in each game, provide Jordan with defense and score when needed. Does Kobe have that now? Smush is a GREAT point guard who looks to pass first..uh yea right. biggest #1 draft pick EVER kwame brown..all he does is try to show ppl he was worthy of the #1 pick..which will NEVER HAPPEN!!! lamar odom is a scrub and is NO scottie pippen (top 50 greatest players) and would've been much better individual player if he hadn't of played with Jordan, believe that! Sasha the new Steve Kerr..i dont think so? Ronny Turiaf the new Dennis Rodman..not enough hustle..u see a pattern here???? 4) Western Conference vs Eastern Conference...DAMN that's hard to choose! 5)KOBE 81 pts and didnt even play the entire 4th? His RIDICULOUS 50+ points streak, only Wilt has accomplished more, scoring at least 50 seven straight times. Where's MJ in that discussion? 6) LOL at shaq and kobe comparison...yea kobe won with shaq and shaq one with kobe...shaq also won with the HEAT..and he carried his old body through the ENTIRE playoffs...DWYANE WADE..so SHAQ will NEVER win a championship on his own JUST LIKE KOBE!!!! 7)You put Kobe Bryant in 1986-1987 with the skills he posssess today, he EASILY could've matched jordans 37.1 pts per game. He could fuckin do it this god damn year if lakers were in the EAST, give me a break! 8)Kobe and Phil Jackson go into every game knowing they have absolutely NO supporting cast, filled with selfish players that dont play their ROLE! I don't remember hearing any of Jordans players going on a snowboarding trip during the all star game...injuring himself for 2 months and LYING to the team about it! "He admitted last week he lied to the Lakers when he said he fell on a patch of ice. He apologized to coach Phil Jackson and general manager Mitch Kupchak." 9) Kobe "the Raper"...hmmm go 2 the MOST ATTRACTIVE females in a bar 2nite..ask them if they'd sleep with KOBE BRYANT, what would their response be? There response would be the same as that dumb bitch in colorado, "OMG WHERE AND WHEN!?!?" 10)KOBE is playing against all odds, he's 2 selfish, he's a cheater, elbows too much, not a team player, shoots 2 much, shoots not enough, passes 2 much...needs 2 stop passing and shoot more..what do critics of kobe want him 2 fuckin do!? Give him players that Jordan was surrounded by back in the day and he'd also have 6 fuckin rings! 11)YES you are right about offense including assists...well lets take last nites game...how many shots did kobe take? 13!!!! what was final score 126-98, how many lakers missed WIDE open shots because every single SUNS players attention was on KOBE..there were PLENTY of missed shots, even tho kobe did all he could 2 get them open shots. Sorry no steve kerr sharpshooting, ron harper mid range game, scottie pippens all around superb game, and the hustle of rodman and rebounding and clogging the lane of longley. Game 1 of suns vs lakers...15/33 for 39 points, carrying the entire team on his back throughout the 1st half...sorry he cant do it the entire fuckin game give him sum help..o wait his supporting cast CANT!!! He scores they lose by 8. If kobe passes the ball to an open man 20 times in a game...does that mean he's going to get 20 assists...maybe if your playing on a team like the suns...not the lakers I know not many people are going to agree with me and that's fine, this was a way to show my view and my knowledge of these 2 players, now lets have the debate live on!

the only argument i might totally have an issue with is eastern conference vs western conference (point #4). when jordan was playing i think the conferences were a little more balanced. the eastern conference was not the wasteland it is now. but then again, the east has won the two of the last three championships, so poo poo on western conference TOTAL dominance.

TA Counselor: "Ok Steven, why are you here today?"

Steven: "Well, Member of X told me I needed counseling"

TA Counselor: "Oh yes yes, he says that every time he gets PWNED!"

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 how can you hate kobe? cuz he's too good? cuz he's the best offensive player ever 2 play the game...yea he's better than jordan (stop living in the past)!! KOBE+GARNETT=championship next year

Simply put, NO. He shoots more than Jordan and can't involve anybody else on the team. Yes, you said offensive player, but it's also important to note that Jordan was a perennial all-defensive team selection and Kobe can't be arsed to so much as get back.

That's not why I hate him, though. I hate him because he's an arrogant prick and a ball-hog who can't take responsibility for anything he does, has no humility, and whines and bitches whenever he doesn't get his way.

Didn't know we were actually taking this argument seriously. lol

Somehow cheating on his wife is glossed over by you guys. So he didn't rape the girl then he minimally cheated on his wife. Joy! To be a little snatch about it, he bought her a 2 million dollar ring. Also, he snitched out Shaq with a complete lie when they came to him about the whole ordeal. That's why Shaq hated him.

81 pts and......... 1 assist. lol So one scoring game makes a career?

Career averages:

Jordan Scoring: 30.1
Kobe Scoring: 24.6

Jordan Assists: 5.3
Kobe assists: 4.5

Jordan Rebs: 6.2
Kobe Rebs: 5.2

Jordan FG % (meaning productivity of shots: .497%
Kobe FG%: .453% (ouch!)

Jordan steals: 2.35
Kobe steals: 1.50

Keep in mind Jordan's averages were also weighed down by his last 2 silly Wizards years.

Jordan 5 time MVP
Kobe ???

Jordan holds the record for being elected to the all NBA defensive first team at 9 times!! Meaning probably one of the best 5 defensive players ever. This is a very important note because it takes a great deal of energy to be such a great defensive player. Kobe used to be good at defense but he loafs a lot more now meaning he can concentrate a great deal more on offense. Jordan defense >>>>>>> Kobe

Jordan first in NBA history in scoring average, 2nd in steals. Holds highest scoring average in playoff history (33.4). Let alone talk about all his playoff accomplishments. Don't need to rehash those.

You clearly forget he took some sorry Bulls teams to the 2nd/3rd round before Horace Grant and Pippen were stars You probably don't remember those days but I do. Jordan's 63 pts against one of the best teams ever assembled in the playoffs no less, the 1986 Boston Celtics.

Keep in mind also the watering down of the league!! This is a huge huge point. Expansion of teams has completely watered down the talent pool...just look at all the crummy teams now. Jordan had to go up against the Bad Boys Pistons, Bird Celtics, Ewing Knicks, Reggie Miller Pacers.

Furthermore, the game has evolved so much now where you can barely even touch someone anymore and it's called a foul. This is a GIGANTIC difference to today's game. There is no hand checking allowed. Jordan would drop 60 pts with ease with today's rules. Look at scoring averages per team this year versus when Jordan was playing. The game was geared to defense!


Last point, outside of LA there is probably .00001% of people that agree with you so yeah...I'll side with the majority.

Interesting debate but finishing move goes to me.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 haha my credibility is shot because I KNOW basketball and go out on a limb and say something not many ppl agree with?? Why do I think KOBE BRYANT is the best OFFENSIVE player every 2 play? HERE WE GO

oh boy now you did it. you had to go there. you had to say kobe is better than jordan? kobe isn't even close to jordan right now. there are some things kobe is better than jordan, but jordan is better in many more areas than kobe will ever be.

let's breakdown your list......

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 1) I dont remember any 7 footers that play like shooting guards back in jordans days (Nowitzki,Wallace)? 7 footers that are freakish athletes that can jump on top of the hoop (Amare, D-Howard, Garnett, J-Oneal)?

i do agree with you somewhat, but back then, there was also Barkley, Malone, Kemp(he was good back then), and for forwards, and david robinson, a young shaq, the dream hakeem, a young alonzo mourning, and patrick ewing for centers. you can't deny these top tier centers against today's centers right now.

if a team of malone and barkley sqaured up against a team of nowitzki and wallace, i would take malone and barkley anytime. yeah nowitzki and wallace have range, but malone and barkley have about the same amount of range, but the difference is that they fight for the ball harder than nowitzki and wallace.

jordan denied stockton and malone twice, which is a pretty good feat, since utah was as fundamental as a basketball team as you can get (well not as fundamental as the spurs. lol)

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 2) Who were Jordans defenders when he was playing? I cant even think of 1 Shooting Guard that is even CLOSE to the caliber to the likes of hmm lets think here...LEBRON, WADE, MELO, did Jordan have to guard players like those, no KOBE does. Jordan averaged 37.1 points in 1986-87, take a guess who was all defensive team for guards that year? Done thinking....Alvin Robertson and Dennis Johnson? Those players as good as the Shooting guards 2day?

please. talking about today's defense against defense in the past? are you saying indiana, new york, and detroit's defenses back then were soft against jordan? those are considered the glory days of rivalries. blood,sweat, and tears were on the basketball court every game. those bulls-knicks series in the early 90s were class.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 3)Jordan was surrounded by one of if not THE BEST supporting cast, players that played because they KNEW their role in each game, provide Jordan with defense and score when needed. Does Kobe have that now? Smush is a GREAT point guard who looks to pass first..uh yea right. biggest #1 draft pick EVER kwame brown..all he does is try to show ppl he was worthy of the #1 pick..which will NEVER HAPPEN!!! lamar odom is a scrub and is NO scottie pippen (top 50 greatest players) and would've been much better individual player if he hadn't of played with Jordan, believe that! Sasha the new Steve Kerr..i dont think so? Ronny Turiaf the new Dennis Rodman..not enough hustle..u see a pattern here????

got a point there. yeah scottie pippen was as much more effective on the floor than odom, but i can't take anything away from odom. he is a better rebounder than pippen, but pippen was a better defender, scorer(not many remember he was pretty effective on the offensive side), and perimeter player.

yeah the bulls had craig hodges, bill cartwright, horace grant, and bj armstrong during his first run, and toni kukoc, ron harper, dennis rodman, and bill wennington during his second run. these guys were role players. not the best players in the nba, but they knew how to play their role. during post shaq, i think kobe got shafted with a supporting cast. however, i do believe next year is going to be a breakout year for andrew bynum. mark my words. he's going to make an impact next year.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 4) Western Conference vs Eastern Conference...DAMN that's hard to choose!

nope can't compare. yeah the west is pretty strong the past couple of years with san antonio, dallas, phoenix, houston, sacramento during the early 2000s, and minnesota with spree, cassell, wally, and garnett.

however, you had charlotte(mourning, johnson, dell curry, mugsy bouges, etc...), atlanta(wilkins, steve smith, kevin willis, etc ..), new york(tough defense, great coaching, and ewing), indiana with larry brown, reggie miller, mark jackson, and rik smits, and miami with hardaway and mashburn. the west was pretty good in the 90s too with seattle, utah, houston, and phoenix battling it out every year.

in the 90s, there were a lot of solid teams that had potential of winning it all. today, we can mark .500+ teams that don't look well equipped to win a championship.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 5)KOBE 81 pts and didnt even play the entire 4th? His RIDICULOUS 50+ points streak, only Wilt has accomplished more, scoring at least 50 seven straight times. Where's MJ in that discussion?

we can talk about kobe and his hot streaks, but jordan is remembered for winning basketball games when it counts, showing up in the 4th quarter, and bringing that 2nd wind when the odds are against him. yeah people will talk about kobe's 81 in a sports discussion, but jordan's remarkable performance against utah in the 1997 finals. 38 points with the flu? amazing.

and also, it was 81 against the RAPTORS. call me when kobe drops 60 on a upper tier team. yeah he did drop 62 against dallas in 3 quarters, but that was when nellie was coaching the mavs.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 6) LOL at shaq and kobe comparison...yea kobe won with shaq and shaq one with kobe...shaq also won with the HEAT..and he carried his old body through the ENTIRE playoffs...DWYANE WADE..so SHAQ will NEVER win a championship on his own JUST LIKE KOBE!!!!

can't talk about last year's championship. the 2006 finals is an asterik in my books, because the heat were given that game. who else can go to the line over 100 times in a 6 game series? a lot of questionable foul calls in my opinion.

and when we are talking about partners, shaq is a better complement than pippen, imo. shaq draws double teams, offering space for kobe to drive to the lane and make plays. pippen doesn't have that type of impace for jordan.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 7)You put Kobe Bryant in 1986-1987 with the skills he posssess today, he EASILY could've matched jordans 37.1 pts per game. He could fuckin do it this god damn year if lakers were in the EAST, give me a break!

are you kidding me? in 1986-87, there were the great boston celtics and los angelas lakers. looking at the box scores that year, jordan scored 48(@bos vs bos), 41(@lal vs lal), 34(@chi vs bos), 30(@chi vs bos), 27(@bos vs bos), and 33(@chi vs lal). pretty impressive individual performances against two of what's considered the best nba teams of all time.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 8)Kobe and Phil Jackson go into every game knowing they have absolutely NO supporting cast, filled with selfish players that dont play their ROLE! I don't remember hearing any of Jordans players going on a snowboarding trip during the all star game...injuring himself for 2 months and LYING to the team about it! "He admitted last week he lied to the Lakers when he said he fell on a patch of ice. He apologized to coach Phil Jackson and general manager Mitch Kupchak."

yeah. this is true. well to tell you the truth, the integrity of basketball as a whole has taken a dip, compared to the past, but i still love the game no matter what. i think the difference between kobe and jordan is that jordan would have met with certain players behind closed doors, and got into heavy conversations with them on how they could work well together, and win games. i don't think kobe has the type of superiority in himself to take that action. it seems kobe has given up on this team. jordan would have made all the attempts he could muster with this laker team.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 9) Kobe "the Raper"...hmmm go 2 the MOST ATTRACTIVE females in a bar 2nite..ask them if they'd sleep with KOBE BRYANT, what would their response be? There response would be the same as that dumb bitch in colorado, "OMG WHERE AND WHEN!?!?"

jordan had rep when he went out to the clubs. too bad jordan is known for his gambling problems more than his escapades out at night. i could post that funny drunk pic of jordan macking it with 2 chics, but that's another story. yeah chics can say they want to have sex with kobe, but jordan has been in many more GQ magazines than kobe.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 10)KOBE is playing against all odds, he's 2 selfish, he's a cheater, elbows too much, not a team player, shoots 2 much, shoots not enough, passes 2 much...needs 2 stop passing and shoot more..what do critics of kobe want him 2 fuckin do!? Give him players that Jordan was surrounded by back in the day and he'd also have 6 fuckin rings!

this is not a point. this is just a rant. i can't analyze this. however, i do agree with the talent surrounding kobe right now.

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 11)YES you are right about offense including assists...well lets take last nites game...how many shots did kobe take? 13!!!! what was final score 126-98, how many lakers missed WIDE open shots because every single SUNS players attention was on KOBE..there were PLENTY of missed shots, even tho kobe did all he could 2 get them open shots. Sorry no steve kerr sharpshooting, ron harper mid range game, scottie pippens all around superb game, and the hustle of rodman and rebounding and clogging the lane of longley. Game 1 of suns vs lakers...15/33 for 39 points, carrying the entire team on his back throughout the 1st half...sorry he cant do it the entire fuckin game give him sum help..o wait his supporting cast CANT!!! He scores they lose by 8. If kobe passes the ball to an open man 20 times in a game...does that mean he's going to get 20 assists...maybe if your playing on a team like the suns...not the lakers

yeah we can talk about how important each player is to their individual team, however there is a reason why we remember the lakers getting hammered in games "post shaq" than the early years with chicago in the mid to late 80s when jordan wasn't surrounded by talent, and did not have phil jackson. yeah there were games where the game looked out of hand, and the bulls were down and out. yet, jordan still gave 110% every game no matter what.







i am not taking kobe's talent away from him, and say it's not as great as jordan's. however, when it comes down to the line, there's one significant stat that no one really talks about. jordan was voted in 9 all nba defensive first teams, and was voted defensive player of the year in 1987-88 season. kobe? 2. 9-2. kobe's got a long way to go to reach 9. anybody can shoot the ball and score points, but there are special guys that can give 110% and make plays on both sides of the ball.

yeah it's a long post. fuck it. just scroll down if you don't feel like reading.

quote:

Originally posted by LeopoldStotch oh boy now you did it. you had to go there.

lol. I'll read the rest later.

back to NBA Play-Offs -> looks like my Mavs finally get it going

quote:

Originally posted by Rockabye back to NBA Play-Offs -> looks like my Mavs finally get it going

they looked very shaky during the first quarter, but after Baron Davis picked up his 2nd foul, they started getting things going.

Yea you had some very good points added on, I agreed with a lot you said but still cant change my thinking! Good debate and yes onto the playoffs! So happy spurs and mavs won...I wanna see the best teams in the NBA playing eachother in the 2nd round, no golden state or nuggets...who's everyone going for throught the entire playoffs? I'm feeling the Spurs getting past the Nuggets and SUNS with that defense and slowing the game down...suns v mavs cant wait for that and dont care bout eastern conference..
SPURS the champions is my pick

I'm a die-hard Chicago fan for every sport (except the ones I don't care about at all: NHL, MLS, whatever the Arena football league is called, etc.), so I really want to see the Bulls finish up this series quickly. I think they'll probably lose to Detroit, since the Pistons match up against them about as well as any team can (Billups on Gordon, Wallace on Deng, Hamilton on Heinrich), but I'd still love to see them make it a battle. The team that they've got now can truly be great, and even though there's no way they can win it all this year, winning a series and putting up a fight against a great team would really help them going forwards. I just can't wait 'til next year, when Gordon & Deng really come into their own. As for the East, I want to see the Suns go all the way. I usually don't bother watching most of the NBA games, especially those in the Western conference, but the Suns are truly fun to watch, and have such great role players that I've really started to want them to do well.

If the Bulls can't pull it off, I really hate to say it, but I'd want Detroit to move on, simply because there's nobody else who I could root for. I hate seeing teams that rely solely on one player, like Cleveland, and Detroit's the only team with a real chance to take down whomever comes out of the West. This year, with Webber, I really can't see anybody beating in the East beating them.

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Originally posted by fmodena369 SPURS the champions is my pick

good choice my friend, good choice.

After that win on Wed, now I dont feel as bad. But we still need to grab at least one game in Denver.

Some ugly ball games played by Raps and Nets.

Jason Kidd is bringing it though. Vince Carter ain't.

As for Kobe vs Jordan debate. LMAO

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree As for Kobe vs Jordan debate. LMAO

+1

Let's give them each a cookie for their well spent time.


As much as I want the Lakers to win it, they most likely wont, but we'll see what happens these next 2 games.

can we give Kobe some time to spend well, instead?

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/yijianlian.html

the next dirk...with an adam's apple the size of a baseball

lmao
it's fuckin huge!

quote:

Originally posted by medinaM5 http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/yijianlian.html the next dirk...with an adam's apple the size of a baseball

that's gross....ugh...

quote:

Originally posted by medinaM5 http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/yijianlian.html the next dirk...with an adam's apple the size of a baseball

there are high praises for this guy. unfortunately, he's going to turn 23 before the start of next season, and he's only 230 pounds for 7 foot. that's pretty skinny. his ass will be pushed around like a bully in the paint. he could be a rik smits/early dirk type, and stay mostly in the perimeter, but that would make him ineffective at his position.

one guy i would like to develop a bit more is braginini from toronto. i thought he would be a bust(like morrison in charlotte and redick in orlando), but he's holding up well. living up to some expectations. i look forward to see him play more on a daily basis next year.

as for the nets-raptors series, as everyone predicted, the most boring of the 8 first round series. i think vince carter is on cruise control, because he thinks the nets can take out the raptors with him at 50%. rj needs to step up a bit more. really underachieving right now.

quote:

Originally posted by LeopoldStotch there are high praises for this guy. unfortunately, he's going to turn 23 before the start of next season, and he's only 230 pounds for 7 foot. that's pretty skinny. his ass will be pushed around like a bully in the paint. he could be a rik smits/early dirk type, and stay mostly in the perimeter, but that would make him ineffective at his position. one guy i would like to develop a bit more is braginini from toronto. i thought he would be a bust(like morrison in charlotte and redick in orlando), but he's holding up well. living up to some expectations. i look forward to see him play more on a daily basis next year. as for the nets-raptors series, as everyone predicted, the most boring of the 8 first round series. i think vince carter is on cruise control, because he thinks the nets can take out the raptors with him at 50%. rj needs to step up a bit more. really underachieving right now.

nets & raptors is boring, indeed. The Bulls/Heat has been the most exciting so far, IMO (partly 'cuz I'm a Bulls fan), with the Suns/Lakers right behind it. Even though it's not competitive, it's fun to watch a team play that well, especially when it makes Kobe angry.

From what I've seen in Yi Jianlin clips on youtube, he seems to be really really really good. Athletic 7 footer with great speed and jumping ability, definitely will slam on YAO in the NBA a few times! ESPN has them going to the Seattle Sonics...oh wait I mean Oklahoma City Sonics

quote:

Originally posted by fmodena369 From what I've seen in Yi Jianlin clips on youtube, he seems to be really really really good. Athletic 7 footer with great speed and jumping ability, definitely will slam on YAO in the NBA a few times! ESPN has them going to the Seattle Sonics...oh wait I mean Oklahoma City Sonics

what's the status with that, by the way? I knew they'd demanded a new arena, but where does that stand?

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous Even though it's not competitive, it's fun to watch a team play that well, especially when it makes Kobe angry.

Yeah I love how it gives Kobe that extra edge to destroy his opponents

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous what's the status with that, by the way? I knew they'd demanded a new arena, but where does that stand?

The ownership had plans to build a new arena (events center) in nearby Renton (about 10-15 mins from Seattle) and had a bill that needed to be passed to fund the arena, but it got shot down by the bitch governor.

Sonics owner Clay Bennett's statement about it ... "This a staggering and quite likely a debilitating blow to our efforts to develop a world-class arena facility," said Bennett. "Clearly at this time the Sonics and Storm have little hope of remaining in the Puget Sound region.

in a nutshell, sonics have about 10-20% chance of staying

which means we needa start saving up for courtside season tickets for next season!

John Hollinger's 30 current world's best NBA players.
[ story here ]
An interesting read. What is amazing is that the top 4 players are the best players in 4 of the top 5 teams in the NBA(i would slip Detroit either 3 or 4 and Houston 5. If Detroit did not have Tayshaun Prince, they wouldn't be in the top 5 right now. )

yeah imo, best teams atm:
1. Dallas (sorry Alban. they did beat us last year. if San Antonio beats Dallas this year, they move up here. =) )
2. San Antonio
3. Phoenix
4. Detroit
5. Houston

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