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-- Israel bombs Gaza...again.
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Originally posted by Abercrombie Not really... Correct I should have gone into more detail, Shahid is respected amonst the extremists. I never said anything about the whole country or all of the religion, let's not blow what I said up more than what it is. I love Joe the Plummer Muslims, and you know it. I am as Pro-Palestinian as much as I am Pro-Iraeli. I'm Anti-Extremist, and I have clearly stated this countless of times. Shahid (martyrdom) is highly respected amongst the extremists, and sadly Gaza (not all of Palestine) is governed by an extremist group. Therefore Hamas is creating a very bad image for all Joe the Plumber Palestinians.

Joe the Plumber is going to Isreal as a news reporter.

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Originally posted by gummybear let's hope the U.S jumps and in and tells their friend to stop their shit before this gets really bad.....

or someone tell Hezbollah to f off

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Joe the Plumber is going to Isreal as a news reporter.

there's finally going to be an unbiased view to this conflict.

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Originally posted by Yohan or someone tell Hezbollah to f off

this is a portion of an satirical article i read today on aljazeera..


"Or there�s the outrage that Hamas has been supported by Iran. Well that�s just breaking the rules. Because say what you will about the Israelis, they get no arms supplies or funding or political support from a country that�s more powerful than them, they just go their own way and make all their weapons in an arts and crafts workshop in Jerusalem."

link to full article..

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/artic...ain_about_.html

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Originally posted by mikester69 UN halts Gaza aid shipments after Israeli attacks on its staff http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/...el_palestinians "We've been co-ordinating with them (Israeli forces) and yet our staff continue to be hit and killed." Well isn't that just great!

I want to hear the fuckin excuses from Israel over this.let me guess,"the terrorists were hiding inside the truck"?

Israel doesnt give a fuck about any laws or what the UN has to say.Yet they like to be respected by the international community somehow?fuck off

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer let me guess,"the terrorists were hiding inside the truck"?

Of course they will, what else did you expect?

Even though UN trucks have been used to transport weapons in the past by the Palestinian militants and cought on video, I am not going to jump to conclusions like you are.

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Originally posted by UmmiE I will have to disagree because of the fact that....Just because the U.S says its stabalizing doesnt actually mean it is.......they have brought down the place 50 years back if not to stone age

Brought them forward to the stone age, you mean? Seriously, you can't mean to suggest that Iraqis are worse off now than they were under Saddam. The fact of the matter is that insurgent violence is down; do you have evidence that contradicts these reports that doesn't come from Al-Jazeera or YouTube videos?

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Even if the new govt stands up in there do you think these hardcore militants or hamas will be done...No because its not like a traditional army its a group of people fighting for a cause

For once, I agree with you. Even if they kill every single Hamas member and leader, the name will not die, the cause will not die, and even if they do, some other cause or organization will take its place.

The only strategy that's ever worked in the past is not only eliminate the current regime but to support and enforce the regime change. If they can remove Hamas' stranglehold on the Palestinians and make way for moderates (which is what you all insist that "typical" Palestinians really are), then they can provide military support to the new government until its own security forces are strong enough to quash the terrorists themselves.

This may never happen. It certainly won't happen without a ground invasion, which would mean heavy Israeli casualties and massive international outcry from the usual suspects. The air strikes really just buy time, force Hamas to regroup and restock, give the Israeli people a few months of temporary relief.

Israel has terrorists too. Hell, every country has nutjobs; most countries just reign them in, and there have actually been several instances when Israeli terrorists trying to do something stupid like blow up the Dome of the Rock get busted by the IDF and thrown in prison. These stories don't appear much in our media but you can find them in Israeli media sometimes. The point is, when the government itself is the same organization that trains, arms, and directs the terrorists (sorry, "militants"), then there's no hope of good-faith negotiations.

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Originally posted by gummybear "Or there�s the outrage that Hamas has been supported by Iran. [...]"

Huh? Hamas is supported primarily by the Saudis (and armed primarily by the former USSR), first of all, and secondly, I don't think anyone is really "outraged" over this. It's simply mentioned as an important factor in the war because if there were a way to cut off their funding, the war would end quickly.

And third, come on, are you seriously posting articles from Al-Jazeera on here?

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Originally posted by DigiNut Huh? Hamas is supported primarily by the Saudis (and armed primarily by the former USSR), first of all, and secondly, I don't think anyone is really "outraged" over this. It's simply mentioned as an important factor in the war because if there were a way to cut off their funding, the war would end quickly. And third, come on, are you seriously posting articles from Al-Jazeera on here?

sheesh..i was replying to yohan's comment about lebanon staying out of it..

it was a satirical article basically saying..why is israel allowed to be helped by bigger, stronger nations like the u.s but the mere thought that palestine may be helped out by lebanon is totally unacceptable..

why do you have to always complicate things..?

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Originally posted by gummybear it was a satirical article basically saying..why is israel allowed to be helped by bigger, stronger nations like the u.s but the mere thought that palestine may be helped out by lebanon is totally unacceptable..

And my response was that it's a red herring - nobody is saying that it's unacceptable. It's merely one more obstacle for Israel in this war.

Although it's worth pointing out that the USA is thousands of miles away from the conflict and therefore can't actually help fight the war or provide any useful tactical information (not that Israel needs it), and that the Americans aren't supplying cash or weapons to the extent that many pro-Palestinians seem to believe. Mainly they're a political ally. So if you really want to dwell on this topic, then yes, there are differences.

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Originally posted by DigiNut And my response was that it's a red herring - nobody is saying that it's unacceptable. It's merely one more obstacle for Israel in this war. Although it's worth pointing out that the USA is thousands of miles away from the conflict and therefore can't actually help fight the war or provide any useful tactical information (not that Israel needs it), and that the Americans aren't supplying cash or weapons to the extent that many pro-Palestinians seem to believe. Mainly they're a political ally. So if you really want to dwell on this topic, then yes, there are differences.

ok digi....you seem like a smart dude..but when it comes to this issue..you're just talking shit..seriously..

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/7/21/u_s_arming_of_israel_how


i think you just make up your own reality..

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Originally posted by gummybear http://www.democracynow.org/2006/7/...g_of_israel_how

You haven't even posted a source this time, you've posted a link to somebody from a left-wing journal being interviewed by somebody from an even farther left-wing site who spews out a bunch of assertions and statistics without backing a single one of them up.

This counts as evidence in your eyes? Do you even attempt to look for any non-biased sources? So far you've only given us Al-Jazeera and Democracy Now.

Edit: Oh, and some stuff that some guys said at a Palestinian Rally. That's a credible source.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Americans aren't supplying cash or weapons to the extent that many pro-Palestinians seem to believe. Mainly they're a political ally. So if you really want to dwell on this topic, then yes, there are differences.

LOL Digi dood this is sig worthy .......... Can I plz,If you dont mind?

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Originally posted by DigiNut And my response was that it's a red herring - nobody is saying that it's unacceptable. It's merely one more obstacle for Israel in this war. Although it's worth pointing out that the USA is thousands of miles away from the conflict and therefore can't actually help fight the war or provide any useful tactical information (not that Israel needs it), and that the Americans aren't supplying cash or weapons to the extent that many pro-Palestinians seem to believe. Mainly they're a political ally. So if you really want to dwell on this topic, then yes, there are differences.

I think you just dug your own hole.

Following the money ought to be pretty easy, especially where the U.S. is concerned. If you've got some evidence to present - excluding the unverified claims of some clearly-biased "expert" - then I'd be happy to take it at face value and concede the point if it seems justified.

The most rational course of action for any claim without evidence is skepticism. This is one of the few instances where there should be hard, unbiased, indisputable evidence if the claim is true. Show me that, and you won't get any further argument.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Following the money ought to be pretty easy, especially where the U.S. is concerned. If you've got some evidence to present - excluding the unverified claims of some clearly-biased "expert" - then I'd be happy to take it at face value and concede the point if it seems justified. The most rational course of action for any claim without evidence is skepticism. This is one of the few instances where there should be hard, unbiased, indisputable evidence if the claim is true. Show me that, and you won't get any further argument.

This should keep your quiet for atleast 51mins and 30 seconds ...... Its a professor from Tel Aviv connecting the dots for you on what seems to be " The Relationship between Israel and the United States" ..... Im sorry its a youtube video hey thats the best I can do...... If you dont agree with this or still think that its biased then Im done with you here.........because there's no point in talking about it if you have your ears wide shut on the truth.

quote:

Up to 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza, UN reports REUTERS GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip � Tiny bodies lying side by side wrapped in white burial shrouds. The cherubic face of a dead preschooler sticking up from the rubble of her home. A man cradling a wounded boy in a chaotic emergency room after Israel shelled a UN school. Children, who make up more than half of crowded Gaza's 1.4 million people, are the most defenceless victims of the war between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli army has unleashed unprecedented force in its campaign against Hamas militants, who have been taking cover among civilians. A photo of four-year-old Kaukab Al Dayah, just her bloodied head sticking out from the rubble of her home, covered many front pages in the Arab world Wednesday. "This is Israel," read the headline in the Egyptian daily Al-Masry Al-Youm. The preschooler was killed early Tuesday when an F-16 attacked her family's four-storey home in Gaza City. Four adults also died. As many as 257 children have been killed and 1,080 wounded, with about a third of the total casualties since Dec. 27, according to UN figures released today. Hardest on the children is the sense that nowhere is safe and adults can't protect them, said Iyad Sarraj, a psychologist hunkering down in his Gaza City apartment with his four stepchildren, ages three to 17. His 10-year-old, Adam, is terrified during bombing raids and has developed asthma attacks, Sarraj said. Israel says it is targeting Hamas in response to its repeated rocket attacks on southern Israel, and is doing its utmost to avoid civilian deaths. However, foreign aid officials note that civilians can't escape blockaded Gaza and that bombing crowded areas inevitably leads to civilian casualties. The Israeli military has used tank and artillery shells, as well as large aerial bombs. In the Shati refugee camp on the Mediterranean, 10 boys were playing football in an alley today when a shell from an Israeli gunboat hit a nearby Hamas prison. At the sound of the explosion, one of the older boys whistled, a signal to interrupt the game. Several players took cover with their backs pressed against a wall. After a minute or two, the game resumed. Samih Hilal, 14, said he sneaked out of his grandfather's house against the orders of his worried father. The house was crowded with relatives who fled more dangerous areas, he said, and he couldn't stand being cooped up for so many hours. "Do you think we are not afraid? Yes, we are. But we have nothing to do but play," Samih said. Another boy, 13-year-old Yasser, waved toward the unmanned Israeli drones in a defiant gesture, instead of seeking cover during the shelling. "There is nothing we can do. Even if we run away here or there, their shells are faster than us," he said. Indeed, all of Gaza has become dangerous ground. Children have been killed in strikes on their houses, while riding in cars with their parents, while playing in the streets, walking to a grocery and even at UN shelters. Sayed, Mohammed and Raida Abu Aisheh � ages 12, eight and seven � were at home with their parents when they were all killed in an Israeli air strike before dawn Monday. The family had remained in the ground floor apartment of their three-storey building, while the rest of the extended clan sought refuge in the basement from heavy bombardment of nearby Hamas installations. Those in the basement survived. The children's uncle, Saber Abu Aisheh, 49, searched today through the rubble, a heap of cement blocks, mattresses, scorched furniture and smashed TVs. He said Israel gave no warning, unlike two years earlier when he received repeated calls from the Israeli military, including on his cellphone, that a nearby house was going to get hit and that he should evacuate. "What's going on is not a war, it's a mass killing," said Abu Aisheh, still wearing the blood-splattered olive-coloured sweater he wore the night of the air strike. The Israeli military did not comment when asked why the Abu Aisheh house was targeted. In the Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City, medics found four young children next to their dead mothers in a house, according to the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross. "They were too weak to stand up on their own," the statement said. The Red Cross did not say what happened to the children, but noted that the Israeli army refused rescuers permission to reach the neighbourhood for four days. Israel said the delay was caused by fighting. Medic Mohammed Azayzeh said he retrieved the bodies of a man and his two young sons from central Gaza on Wednesday. One of the boys, a one-year-old, was cradled in his father's arms. In the Jebaliya refugee camp, five sisters from the Balousha family, ages four, eight, 11, 14 and 17, were buried together in white shrouds on Dec. 29. An Israeli air strike on a mosque, presumably a Hamas target, had destroyed their adjacent house. Only their parents and a baby girl survived. Israel accuses Hamas of cynically exploiting Gaza's civilians and using them as human shields. The military has released video footage showing militants firing mortars from the rooftops of homes and mosques. "Israel wants to see no harm to the children of Gaza," said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev. "On the contrary, we would like to see their children and our children grow up without the fear of violence. Until now, Hamas has deliberately prevented that from becoming reality." Rocket fire from Gaza has disrupted life in Israeli border communities, and with the latest intensified militant attacks, hundreds of thousands of Israelis are in rocket range. Schools are closed and fearful Israeli children rush into bomb shelters at the sound of air raid sirens. In the ongoing chaos of Gaza, it's difficult to get exact casualty figures. Since Dec. 27, at least 750 Palestinians have been killed, according to Gaza Health Ministry official Dr. Moawiya Hassanain. Of those, 257 were children, according to the UN's top humanitarian official, John Holmes, citing Health Ministry figures that he called credible and deeply disturbing. "We are talking about urban war," said Abdel-Rahman Ghandour, the Jordan-based spokesman for UNICEF in the Middle East and North Africa. "The density of the population is so high, it's bound to hurt children ... This is a unique conflict, where there is nowhere to go." Successive generations of Gaza children have grown up with violence, part of the accelerating conflict with Israel. In the late 1980s, many threw stones at Israeli soldiers in a revolt against occupation. In the second uprising, starting in 2000, some were recruited by Hamas as suicide bombers. Sarraj, the psychologist, said he fears for this generation. Having experienced trauma and their parents' helplessness, they may be more vulnerable to recruitment by militants. In his Gaza City apartment, Sarraj tries to reassure his own children. His 14-year-old stepdaughter lost her school, the American International School, to a recent air strike, and a girlfriend was killed in another attack. The family lives in the middle-class Rimal neighbourhood and still has enough fuel to run a generator in the evenings, enabling the children to read. Yet when the bombings start, he can't distract them. "They are scared," he said. "They run to find the safest place, in the hallway, away from the window."

SOURCE

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Originally posted by DigiNut You haven't even posted a source this time, you've posted a link to somebody from a left-wing journal being interviewed by somebody from an even farther left-wing site who spews out a bunch of assertions and statistics without backing a single one of them up. This counts as evidence in your eyes? Do you even attempt to look for any non-biased sources? So far you've only given us Al-Jazeera and Democracy Now. Edit: Oh, and some stuff that some guys said at a Palestinian Rally. That's a credible source.

Out of all of the things you have denied in this thread..this has to seriously be the most idiotic..ok digi..the US doesn't fund Israel..

I can't even argue about this with you..it's redundant and it shouldn't even be an argument..we all know how Israel gets money and arms....

here is an actual link to the report....and if you're going to discredit people why don't you use something different than "they are left wing"

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/israel.lebanon.FINAL2.pdf

and here are some numbers that are published by the Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs..

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

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Originally posted by gummybear ok digi..the US doesn't fund Israel..

That isn't what I said, at any point in time. You really should read posts before you reply to them.

P.S. Still not a single source from you that isn't ridiculously biased... but nevertheless, the first one does reference a small handful of sources that might be worth checking.

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Originally posted by gummybear Out of all of the things you have denied in this thread..this has to seriously be the most idiotic..ok digi..the US doesn't fund Israel.. I can't even argue about this with you..it's redundant and it shouldn't even be an argument..we all know how Israel gets money and arms.... here is an actual link to the report....and if you're going to discredit people why don't you use something different than "they are left wing" http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects...anon.FINAL2.pdf and here are some numbers that are published by the Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs.. http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Gummybear = 10
DigiNut = -20

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Originally posted by UmmiE Gummybear = 10 DigiNut = -20

You've given us nothing but YouTube videos and poor grammar; I hardly think you're qualified to be any sort of adjudicator.

Please, follow through on your "I'm done with you here" threat.

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Originally posted by DigiNut You've given us nothing but YouTube videos and poor grammar; I hardly think you're qualified to be any sort of adjudicator.

All you have given us here is this :-

NO .. No ......... Noo ...Nooo . No........ I dont give a shit about what you say to me or what you think of me......to be honest......Your only good for writing long essays and turning anyones words into something that makes them look less credible....and making israel,its people and its army and its govt look like an inncoent bunch with halos on their heads............you need to get your head out of internal hate and actually open the links provided to you or even send time watching the videos posted.


my poor grammer LOL hahahahah fuck you digi....thats the best counter argument you can come up with ........your presence in this thread says nothing more than a big fat " Fail "

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DigiNut
You've given us nothing but YouTube videos and poor grammar; I hardly think you're qualified to be any sort of adjudicator.

Please, follow through on your "I'm done with you here" threat. [/QUOTE


and all you do is write well constructed sentences that say nothing......you use your big words coupled with your grandiose thoughts and try to pawn them off as having substance...your diatribes actually bore me to tears....

the sad thing is, you have a rep of being a smart dude on this board..and there are people that are actually believing your shit..you use your command of the english language and your ability to structure sentences, to basically fool people into believing false information...

There shouldnt be any surprised that someone like Digi doesnt believe that the U.S. wastes millions and millions on Israel every year.Thats what happens when you have your head deep inside your ass.

I wonder how the American tax payers think when they see their money being used by Israel to kill children in Gaza?

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Originally posted by gummybear [QUOTE]Originally posted by DigiNut You've given us nothing but YouTube videos and poor grammar; I hardly think you're qualified to be any sort of adjudicator. Please, follow through on your "I'm done with you here" threat. [/QUOTE and all you do is write well constructed sentences that say nothing......you use your big words coupled with your grandiose thoughts and try to pawn them off as having substance...your diatribes actually bore me to tears.... the sad thing is, you have a rep of being a smart dude on this board..and there are people that are actually believing your shit..you use your command of the english language and your ability to structure sentences, to basically fool people into believing false information...

You took the words right out of my mouth

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