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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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quote:

Originally posted by djlithium The damd grooves on the records in the form of the lighter and darker bands ARE the visual reference to the musical mathematics you moron. YOU DON'T GET THAT WITH ANY KIND OF DIGITAL SYSTEM. EVER.

You are wrong about that. Computer software such as Ableton & Traktor show you what the music is doing, visually. In fact the visual information is far more detailed than what is possible with a vinyl record. Here is an example from Traktor:



Lithium, on another topic, in many of your posts you resort to using insulting names when talking to or about anyone who uses digital methods, or anyone who does not agree with you. That's really low and no way to have a debate or discussion.

God are you people STUPID.

Seeing a waveform of what an audio signal does in this way of displaying it has nothing to do with the musical structure of a track where you can gleen anything out of it quickly and accurrately. It is indeed too much information.

SUCKERS.

And what do I care if you think I am not all nice and fluffy on this subject?

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b No offence but you have no idea what youre talking about. TRUE DJING?? hahhaha do you even know what that is first off? You peole remind me of CD bashers, now some of the worlds best are using them solely...they arent true DJs??...hahah

No they are not. They should now be considered sellouts and traitors... i.e.. the Chris Sheppards of the modern dance world. I assume you know what I mean by that since you are in the center of the universe where all things "faked" in canadian dance music are located.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium Where the fuck did you get this statement from?? This is such a scam for them to even suggest the things they do in the second paragraph as even remotely being corect. Submitting a playlist for sets by some hack who uses a download services isn't going to get him off the hook from performances royalty fees when from what I have read in other "sections of" some of these download site providers terms of service agreements clearly stating that the tracks obtained off the site through the service are not licensed for public performance or broadcast. I would really be interested to know where that came from. Please get me the link to what provider is saying that.

Traxsource

I havent found a digital downloader provider that doesnt permit public performance-which lets remember is the whole point of these legal download sites.In any case, even if they didnt, the licence the venue has would cover it for public performance.
I think what it refers to is that when required to do so, they must disclose it to the royalities people. No different to how the situation currently is.
The point of me posting that was to show how wrong and contradictory to statements like the above extract the PRS/PPL are being at the moment by falsely telling people that playing out downloads is illegal.

Beatport had information contrary to what you are saying about 6 months ago posted on their site in the terms of service agreement area. This must have changed.

Vinyl rules

More music comes out on vinyl than on CD. So I prefer vinyl.

Vinyl for live!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium Seeing a waveform of what an audio signal does in this way of displaying it has nothing to do with the musical structure of a track where you can gleen anything out of it quickly and accurrately. It is indeed too much information.

Actually, I'm with tvmann on this one. Not that I'm keen on computer software for spinning but that wave in grey actually tells me more about the track than reading the grooves on a record ever could. And I don't think it's too much information either as it's pretty simple to see what you need to.

Personally I don't really read the records anymore, I just tend to know the tunes anyway. Music memory is far more useful when DJing than reading a record ever could be as you know exactly what's going to happen rather than making a calculated guess because at best that is what reading a wave or a record really is.

I'm hoping that DJing with laptops wont catch on but as for CDs I think that they are here to stay like it or not.

Download sites are ofcourse going to adapt their licenses to the need of their audience even if it's at some extra cost. You are able to play legaly dowloaded music just as you are a CD. If you will notice that even bought vinyl usually has no unauthorised public performance permited printed somewhere on the sleeve. This usually refers to the licence of the venue i.e. does it exist or not.

You also need to be a bit more 'matter of fact' because frankly speaking when you post, a lot of times there are things in there that are worth reading but it gets lost with the condesending manner in which you state your arguements.

Nem

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium "when mixing thinking of the mext 2-3 tracks, not just the next one coming up, its about using certain melodies to counter or complement others from track to track, creativity (and when youre using vinyl your mixes are already limited before you even start!) and originality its about teasing the listener, using some bass oriented tracks a certain way and using synth oriented tracks a certain way in a good set." Ok see you obviously don't have a fucking CLUE as to what you are talking about because any REAL DJ who PLAYS RECORDS. KNOWS. THAT. THIS. IS. HOW. PHRASE. MIXING. BECOMES. REALITY. AND. WHY. VINYL. IS. BETTER. The damd grooves on the records in the form of the lighter and darker bands ARE the visual reference to the musical mathematics you moron. YOU DON'T GET THAT WITH ANY KIND OF DIGITAL SYSTEM. EVER. And as a result all these so-called top jocks are starting to really fucking suck it when they play and all these new twits fail to understand how this mathematical formula works (which cannot be fucked with regardless of who you think you might think you are or who you might know who might be in the know) and are effectively DJING DEAF AND BLIND. It's like reading sheet music guys and building lego at the same time. You can't do it with invisible ink on the paper while forcing the blocks together at an angle. It just doesn't fucking work. You YES YOU, sufee_b have been disqualified from participating in any further discussion about this because you stuffed your foot in your mouth and I just put it further in so you would know that you did just that. Got it?

You ARE THE IDIOT DUMBASS!! YOU QUOTED SOMETHING AND DIDNT EVEN DIRETCLY REFER TO ANYTHING YOU IDIOT. I HAVE DISQUALIFIED YOU DUMBASS! WHEN MIXING WITH VINYL YOURE MIXES ARE ALREADY LIMITED BEFORE YOU EVEN START YOU RETARD...UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR MIXES TO SOUND LIKE SHIT...

DO I CLAIM TO BE THE BEST DJ...NOPE NOT AT ALL...THATS NOT WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING..BUT I CAN RECOGNIZE THE GOOD ONES BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND MANY OF THE TOP TALENTS AROUND THE WORLD...AND MOST WOULD AGREE ONE THING...WHY WOULD YOU CHOOSE A MEDIAN WHEN YOU ARE LIMITED BEFORE YOU EVEN START...UNLES YOU HAVE ALREADY INVESTED TIME MONEY AND EFFORT AND SOMETIMES A REP AT WHAT YOU ALREADY DO AND WOULD SUFFER FROM CHANGE FOR SOME REASON

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann You are wrong about that. Computer software such as Ableton & Traktor show you what the music is doing, visually. In fact the visual information is far more detailed than what is possible with a vinyl record. Here is an example from Traktor: Lithium, on another topic, in many of your posts you resort to using insulting names when talking to or about anyone who uses digital methods, or anyone who does not agree with you. That's really low and no way to have a debate or discussion.

Thanka you..i had to answer him harshly in return

The only argument in favor of vynil is the fact that they do sound better (although it's almost impossible to tell the difference when the music is blast) they are also fun to use since you can touch the music and doesn't have a digital interface between you and the track.

But outside of that i found it very amusing to see some people argue that DJing is an art while they're sticking with vinyl wich limit DJing to playing the music that other real artists made while all they do is beatmatching and layering some part of a song. Wow this is so fucking unimpressive.

An artist is a creator.

The only way to be really creative while DJing is by incorporating digital technology in your mix.Wheter it's by using something like Ableton live or by editing your own version of a song (or creating an original song) and burning it on CD to use it in your next mix. Now that's being creative and innovative.

I would add that the most important thing is the result.

The role of a DJ is to provide music for a party.

Whether it's from CD's or vynil it's the public who make or break the greatness of a DJ.

And i think that offering a unique sound is whatmakes a great DJ, and to be unique you can't be limited by the boundaries of one medium like vynils.

Artist creates track on digital. Track is mastered on digital. Master is written to digital format. Final written version is either burnt onto digital and played on digital decks or simply played from digital source ie: laptop.

And because the digital isnt turned into a bit of plastic and played on an analogue turntable right at the very end of this long digital processs people complain and say it isnt 'real'

LoL... such a wank...

ok wow long thread... so im sure someone said this already BUT:

ive heard some people argue that its easier to beatmach on cds.. ok. i dont think thats true per se, but even if it is: ANYONE can learn how to beatmach with enough practice. playing 2 tracks the same speed is simply a logical mathematical process, and being able to do so does not make one a good DJ. Being a good DJ lies in track selection, being able to read a crowd, and the art of mixing. Mixing does not simply mean playing 2 tracks the same speed. its an art to be able to make 2 tracks overlap and flow continuously with some sort of progression... this is not necessarily something that can be learned by repetitive practice like beatmatching, and definitely not something thats made easier by the type of equipment you use.

besides, for those traditionalists out there who are stuck on the idea of actually physically manipulating a piece of vinyl (which i do enjoy watching although i use cds), theres always the option of FinalScratch. FS is a fantastic way to bridge the gap between digital and analog. It allows analog control of a digital sound source. Basically using your turntables to control an mp3. It allows you to do everything to the digital source that you can do with vinyl. Awesome stuff =]

hmm...just wondering if ne of u guys use the tempo lock function on ur cd decks to adjust the key into what sounds right. This is just something i recently started doing. Listening to track 1's outro b 4 i beat match i adjust the pitch slider to find a key that will sound good i cand tell this by putting both pfl's on. once i like the key i press the tempo lock button and then use the pitch slider to beat match. It works for me imo. Therfore u can rely on ur ear manually to create harmonic mixes, instead of having to classify each of ur tracks into key.

Another reason y i believe vinyl is old fashioned. CD decks enable for bmp to decrease and increase, and it will remain in the same key. FOr example u wont get a chipunk effect if ur bmp is increased heavily if tempo locked. (THis means it is in the same key, but the speed is increased heavily)

John O Callahan even says vinyl is over, and the djs of tommorow are all using cd turntables lets face the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by flowness ok wow long thread... so im sure someone said this already BUT: ive heard some people argue that its easier to beatmach on cds.. ok. i dont think thats true per se, but even if it is: ANYONE can learn how to beatmach with enough practice. playing 2 tracks the same speed is simply a logical mathematical process, and being able to do so does not make one a good DJ. Being a good DJ lies in track selection, being able to read a crowd, and the art of mixing. Mixing does not simply mean playing 2 tracks the same speed. its an art to be able to make 2 tracks overlap and flow continuously with some sort of progression... this is not necessarily something that can be learned by repetitive practice like beatmatching, and definitely not something thats made easier by the type of equipment you use. Awesome stuff =]

I don't have hardware yet, but I've heard it was easier to cue a cd rather than beatmach because the sensitivity of the pitch slider is more obvious to the ears than on a turntable.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi hmm...just wondering if ne of u guys use the tempo lock function on ur cd decks to adjust the key into what sounds right. This is just something i recently started doing. Listening to track 1's outro b 4 i beat match i adjust the pitch slider to find a key that will sound good i cand tell this by putting both pfl's on. once i like the key i press the tempo lock button and then use the pitch slider to beat match. It works for me imo. Therfore u can rely on ur ear manually to create harmonic mixes, instead of having to classify each of ur tracks into key.

forgive me if im wrong, but im pretty sure you cant just grab a tune, and then select what key its going to be in. changing the speed will obv change the key, but you cant just say, oooh! im gonna play this tune in C minor coz that will be dandy.

I know, its rather something u just hear, and what ever sounds right to you should sound right to the audience. I just dont think there is a need to label all ur singles by key(I dont know if uve seen the thread on keyed tunes to harmonic mixers). Harmonic mixing shouldnt be so technical in my opinion, instead, You shoulkd developing an ear to hear if two songs sound together at the same key. If not, oyu can just manipulate the key by changing pitch. 6 years of concert band playing the trumpet really helped out i must say

CDJs allow for more creativity with djing. I'd call them live remixing machines rather than decks, I got 9 on board effects on each of my decks, and using different combinations during buildups and breakdowns can sound lethal! Also Beatmatching is a shiize load easier on cd decks, cuz u can just cue the down beat, loop like 8 beats, and just keep trying a few times until u like how the beats are matched. Also forgot to mention the bpm counters.

Question: Who are gunna be the Tiestos the Armins and PVDS in like 10-12 years....The answer is the teenagers of today. All my fellow teenage djs use cd decks, since they are more practical, and everyone is using mp3 format shit these days. Teenagers these days are all vvery computer literate, so I see plugging in a laptop into the mixer as a norm in the future. Using cd decks allows for a much greater tracklist to work with in ur cd wallet, and this is critical to ur success as a dj, because you have to know when to play the right song at the right time. Having a larger song selection gives you a wider range of options on how to move the energy levels of the crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi I know, its rather something u just hear, and what ever sounds right to you should sound right to the audience.

well, as nem rightly pointed out in the harmonics thread, it doesnt work like that. out of key tunes are still going to be out of key, no matter how much you lock em

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi I just dont think there is a need to label all ur singles by key(I dont know if uve seen the thread on keyed tunes to harmonic mixers). Harmonic mixing shouldnt be so technical in my opinion, instead, You shoulkd developing an ear to hear if two songs sound together at the same key.

this should be in the other thread, but since its here i just wanted to say i couldnt disagree with your more. firstly, you can only mix harmonically if you have an ear for it in the first place (unless youre grabbing keys of places like mixshare.com, but i trust myself more). i for one take a great deal of pleasure in getting new tunes and keying them. nothing overly "technical" about it. as nem pointed out, having them already keyed allows you freedom to do everything else you might wanna.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
changing the speed will obv change the keyQUOTE]

Not with CDJ's

some have an option that allows you ton change the speed of the tune without changing the key. It's an amazing little technology feat ! and another boundaries of vinyl that CDJ's has break.

quote:

Originally posted by ti_gui909 Not with CDJ's some have an option that allows you ton change the speed of the tune without changing the key. It's an amazing little technology feat ! and another boundaries of vinyl that CDJ's has break.

yes, i know that. they also dont work as well you people seem to think (check nem's post in the harmonic's thread). any DJ that *needs* keylock isnt that good imo. people have been DJing for decades without it. i really domt see the need.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yes, i know that. they also dont work as well you people seem to think (check nem's post in the harmonic's thread). any DJ that *needs* keylock isnt that good imo. people have been DJing for decades without it. i really domt see the need.

what kind of an argument is "people have been DJing for decades without it. i really domt see the need." ??

If humanity thought like you, we'd still be cavern people. and there was no DJ in cavern times. DJ's came from an evolution of music and there's no evolution when people refuse to change.

I mean why refuse to evolve ? DJing is a way to feed the dancefloor with the electronic music we all love and love to love. If new technologies provide ways for Dj to be more unique and to provide a more creative and rich experience to the public, i say embrace it.

I respect those who want to stick with vynil since it's a great medium and the feel of vynil and the pure analog sound is great.

But you guys who keep bashing CDJ's and saying that Vynil is the only way to go i have this to say to you :

GROW UP ! DJing is NOT a freaking religion !
You guys are to Djing what religious extremist are to Islam.
STOP imagining yourself you are part of a freaking cult.
It's the party people who gave the DJ it's purpose, they don't care about your silly purist whinning.

Well said ti guy
If technology is allowing for greater djing capabilities of what the dj can actually do on the dance floor, so be it. Those who advocate the arguement that "true djs" use pure vinyl are gonna get left behind in a dj industry thats heading towards greater technological advancements.

Y couldnt trance music be made 60 years ago? Lack of technology. It is the continual advancements in technology that allowed for the electronic dance music scene to take place. Guess what. Technology is not stopping, and you vinyl purists better keep up with the scene or else you will be thrown on your back when vinyl dies out. I give vinyl another 12 years max.

children, make sure you are capable of understanding peoples\' posts before you run off on some completely *unrelated* tangent. i merely stated that imo pitchlock is redundant and id never use it coz it will never sounds as good as two tunes that are in key *after* the pitch adjustment. nowhere did i bash CDs or state that only \"true\" DJs use vinyl.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN nowhere did i bash CDs or state that only \"true\" DJs use vinyl.

I was not refering to anybody in particular.

If the hat doesn't fit don't wear it

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