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Sadaam has killed around 500,000 of his people. So far 1200 civilians have died in this war. I think this is a tremendous accomplishment by the coalition forces. 1200 civilian casutlies is extremely low for war.

I am pro war and I hate all Canadian Protesters, especially the ones in KINGSTON!!, ontario. You peple disgust me with a passion. I will never vote Liberal again. This is the first time in my life where I actually care about politics. Jean Chretian has to go, period. I consider him one of the worst PMS in Canada's history, at least in my life time.

Jean Chretian is the best thing that happened to Canada. The only politician stat stayed true to himself and his nation during the US's attack on Iraq. (Mostly because he had nothing to loose, unlike everybody else.)

are they gonna erect a huge bronze statue of Bush since tearing down those statues of Saddam .. ? if they don't , it's an awful waste of pedestles ..

i think Conan O'Brien offered one of himself tonight.. (honestly i watched it his show)..

quote:

Originally posted by DiS Jean Chretian is the best thing that happened to Canada. The only politician stat stayed true to himself and his nation during the US's attack on Iraq. (Mostly because he had nothing to loose, unlike everybody else.)

I'm sorry but Jean CRETIEN (or CRETIN as many of us refer to him as) is one of the most self-absorbed, incompetent dumb fucks that the Canadian government has ever seen. The only reason he's stayed in power this long is that by doing absolutely nothing, he has somehow managed to keep himself from fucking up the country completely. But look at some of the comments he's made in public international settings - he's an embarrassment to our country.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I'm sorry but Jean CRETIEN (or CRETIN as many of us refer to him as) is one of the most self-absorbed, incompetent dumb fucks that the Canadian government has ever seen. The only reason he's stayed in power this long is that by doing absolutely nothing, he has somehow managed to keep himself from fucking up the country completely. But look at some of the comments he's made in public international settings - he's an embarrassment to our country.

wells, the alternatives to him in some of those other parties aren't all that great either ..

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I'm sorry but Jean CRETIEN (or CRETIN as many of us refer to him as) is one of the most self-absorbed, incompetent dumb fucks that the Canadian government has ever seen. The only reason he's stayed in power this long is that by doing absolutely nothing, he has somehow managed to keep himself from fucking up the country completely. But look at some of the comments he's made in public international settings - he's an embarrassment to our country.

wells, the alternatives to him in some of those other parties aren't all that great either ..

quote:

Originally posted by PVDrules Sadaam has killed around 500,000 of his people. So far 1200 civilians have died in this war. I think this is a tremendous accomplishment by the coalition forces. 1200 civilian casutlies is extremely low for war. I am pro war and I hate all Canadian Protesters, especially the ones in KINGSTON!!, ontario. You peple disgust me with a passion. I will never vote Liberal again. This is the first time in my life where I actually care about politics. Jean Chretian has to go, period. I consider him one of the worst PMS in Canada's history, at least in my life time.

I think u totally read my mind! Im sure these protestors were the same ones who protested to stop Saddam gassing the kurds in the late 80's. Now they are anti-war. It seems like people like to protest cause its cool...

It is called new wave communism and students are the medium... the communist countries love this protesting...

Why arent France, Germany and Russia helping? Seems like Iraq owes them billions of dollars and if the government is overthrown the only get 5 cents on the dollar...

Chretien is a pussy.. Who would be the first to protect us... the USA.
Cant wait till he is gone.

The jihad is against Western Life, and thats exactly what we live, right?

The USA is fighting for our way of life where democracy rules.

I cant beleive someone called Bush a nazi.. come on.

quote:

The USA is fighting for our way of life where democracy rules.

Who are you to say that democracy is the best way to live? Americans are only fighting this war for their own good. Do you really think they care about Iraqis? For the same reason Russians, Germans and French are protesting this war - not cause they care about Iraqies, but because they are far worse economically because of that.

Saddam had to be stopped. But not by those means. Now he'll just continue all this bullshit with his money in some other country.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Who are you to say that democracy is the best way to live? Americans are only fighting this war for their own good. Do you really think they care about Iraqis? For the same reason Russians, Germans and French are protesting this war - not cause they care about Iraqies, but because they are far worse economically because of that. Saddam had to be stopped. But not by those means. Now he'll just continue all this bullshit with his money in some other country.

Ok, so u dont like the way you live? Would u rather be a communist? or have regime over you that kills your own people.

What is the best way to live then? Then how do u stop Saddam?? tell him...

Oh, and the other 50 nations that are helping the USA in whatever it is like airspace or landing areas. They are all doing it for themselves... There is a coalition u know.

quote:

Originally posted by Evmac Ok, so u dont like the way you live? Would u rather be a communist? or have regime over you that kills your own people.

I think you have blurred the line between killing and communism....stop giving communism a bad name just becuase you live in a society that runs off the millions who dont get to ever live they way you do.

quote:

What is the best way to live then? Then how do u stop Saddam?? tell him... Oh, and the other 50 nations that are helping the USA in whatever it is like airspace or landing areas. They are all doing it for themselves... There is a coalition u know.

Can you please list those other 50 nations? Rememeber, there are about 150 other nations who oppose this war, they are the ones that did not participate in the coalition of greed.

Allright not like I've been following the discussion or anything, but noene the less some random shit for all of you.

What the American Flag Stands For
by Charlotte Aldebron

The American flag stands for the fact that cloth can be very important. It is against the law to let the flag touch the ground or to leave the flag flying when the weather is bad. The flag has to be treated with respect. You can tell just how important this cloth is because when you compare it to people, it gets much better treatment. Nobody cares if a homeless person touches the ground. A homeless person can lie all over the ground all night long without anyone picking him up, folding him neatly and sheltering him from the rain.
School children have to pledge loyalty to this piece of cloth every morning. No one has to pledge loyalty to justice and equality and human decency. No one has to promise that people will get a fair wage, or enough food to eat, or affordable medicine, or clean water, or air free of harmful chemicals. But we all have to promise to love a rectangle of red, white, and blue cloth.
Betsy Ross would be quite surprised to see how successful her creation has become. But Thomas Jefferson would be disappointed to see how little of the flag's real meaning remains.

Charlotte Aldebron, 12, wrote this essay for a competition in her 6th grade English class. She attends Cunningham Middle School in Presque Isle, Maine. Comments may be sent to her mom, Jillian Aldebron: [email protected]

Now if you have strong negative feelings about this don't be pricks and go cussing at a 12-year old kid allright?

Again, don't know if this was posted or not, also a good read.

Middle East Time Line
(revised, 12 Dec. 2001)
By Stephen R. Shalom

The list below presents some specific incidents of U.S. policy in the Middle
East. The list minimizes the grievances against the United States in the
region because it excludes more generalized long-standing policies, such as
U.S. backing for authoritarian regimes (arming Saudi Arabia, training the
secret police in Iran under the Shah, providing arms and aid to Turkey as it
ruthlessly attacked Kurdish villages, etc.). The list also excludes many
actions of Israel in which the United States is indirectly implicated
because of its military, diplomatic, and economic backing for Israel.


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S.
declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.

1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.1

1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically-elected Mossadeq government in
Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a
quarter-century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed
Reza Pahlevi.

1956: U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt
receives Eastern bloc arms.

1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support
invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes
Washington's reputation in the region.

1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability".

early 1960s: U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader,
Abdul Karim Qassim.2

1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam
Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they
do with vigor.3

1967-: U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC
Resolution 242, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in
the 1967 war.

1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening
on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.

1972: U.S. blocks Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat's efforts to reach a peace
agreement with Israel.

1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war
with Syria and Egypt.

1973-75: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an
agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and
U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action
should not be confused with missionary work."4

1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on
Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.5

1978-79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it
supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until
the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but
to no avail.6

1979-88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months
before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979.7 Over the next decade U.S. provides
training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid.

1980-88: Iran-Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any
Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from
its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be
transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran
and in 1985 U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S.
provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in
1984; U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy
into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly-aggressive U.S. ship
shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.

1981, 1986: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya in waters
claimed by Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a
Libyan plane fires a missile and U.S. shoots down two Libyan planes. In
1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks
Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes
off in a Berlin nightclub, killing three, the U.S. charges that Qaddafi was
behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing
dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.8

1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon,9 killing some
17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting
Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self-defense. U.S. vetoes several
Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.

1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping
force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS
New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.

1984: U.S.-backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.11

1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada.
U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.

1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and
uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to
Iraq.

1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing
Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.

1990-91: U.S. rejects any diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of
Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional
occupations, of Kuwait and of Palestine). U.S. leads international coalition
in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted.12 To promote
"stability" U.S. refuses to aid post-war uprisings by Shi'ites in the south
and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons
and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.13

1991-: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain
block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security
Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's
programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes
it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power.
Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous
human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to
the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth
it."14

1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia.

1993-: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against
an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months
earlier.15

1998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even
though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.

1998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply,
claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and
that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical
warfare charge widely disputed.16

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising,
killing hundreds of civilians.


Notes

1. Douglas Little, "Cold War and Covert Action: The United States and
Syria, 1945-1958," Middle East Journal, vol. 44, no. 1, Winter 1990, pp.
55-57.

2. Thomas Powers, The Man Who Kept the Secrets: Richard Helms and the
CIA, New York: Knopf, 1979, p. 130.

3. Andrew Cockburn and Patrick Cockburn, Out of the Ashes: The
Resurrection of Saddam Hussein, New York: Harperperennial. 1999, p. 74;
Edith and E. F. Penrose, Iraq: International Relations and National
Development, Boulder: Westview, 1978, p. 288; Hanna Batatu, The Old Social
Classes and the Revolutionary Movements of Iraq, Princeton: Princeton UP,
1978, pp. 985-86.

4. U.S. House of Representatives, Select Committee on Intelligence, 19
Jan. 1976 (Pike Report) in Village Voice, 16 Feb. 1976. The Pike Report
attributes the quote only to a "senior official"; William Safire (Safire's
Washington, New York: Times Books, 1980, p. 333) identifies the official as
Kissinger.

5. UN Doc. # S/11898, session # 1862. For a full list of U.S. vetoes
in the Security Council on Middle East issues, along with full text of the
draft resolutions, see the compilation by David Paul at
http://www.salam.org/policy/veto.html.

6. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Power and Principle: Memoirs of the National
Security Adviser, 1977-1981 (New York: Farrar Straus Giroux, 1983), pp.
364-64, 375, 378-79; Gary Sick, All Fall Down: America's Tragic Encounter
with Iran (New York: Penguin, 1986), pp. 147-48, 167, 179.

7. Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, Le Nouvel Observateur (France),
Jan 15-21, 1998, p. 76.

8. See the sources in Stephen R. Shalom, Imperial Alibis (Boston:
South End Press, 1993, chapter 7.

9. Ze'ev Schiff, "Green Light, Lebanon," Foreign Policy, Spring 1983.

10. Robert Fisk, "The Awesome Cruelty of a Doomed Poeple," Independent,
12 Sept. 2001, p. 6. Fisk is one of the most knowledgeable Westerners
reporting on Lebanon.

11. UPI, "Afghan Airliner Lands After Rebel Fire Hits It," NYT, 26 Sept.
1984, p. A9.

12. See, for example, Barton Gellman, "Allied Air War Struck Broadly in
Iraq; Officials Acknowledge Strategy Went Beyond Purely Military Targets,"
Washington Post, 23 June 1991, p. A1. See also Thomas J. Nagy, "The Secret
Behind the Sanctions," Progressive, Sept. 2001.

13. Cockburn and Cockburn, Out of the Ashes: The Resurrection of Saddam
Hussein, chap. 1.

14. Cockburn and Cockburn, Out of the Ashes: The Resurrection of Saddam
Hussein, chap. 5. Albright quote is from CBS News, 60 Minutes, 12 May 1996.

15. On the dubious nature of the evidence, see Seymour Hersh, New
Yorker, Nov. 1, 1993.

16. See Seymour Hersh, New Yorker, Oct. 12, 1998.

Some more shit

US involvement in Foreign assassinations or attempts
-- prohibited by Presidential decree since 1976 --

1960 - General Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1961 - Francois Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
1961 - General Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba , numerous attempts
1960s - Raul Castro, brother of Fidel.
1965 - Francisco Caamano, Opposition leader, Dominican Republic
1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 - Ernesto Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander of Chilean Army
1970s, 81 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 - General Manuel Noriega, chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-86 - Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, numerous attempts
1982 - Ayatollah Khomeine, leader of Iran
1983 - General Ahmed Dlimi, Army commander of Morocco
1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 - All nine leaders of the Nicaraguan National Directorate
1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon Shiite leader
1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1998 - Osama bin Laden, former US trained "freedom fighter".
1999 - Slobodan Mlosevic, President of Yugoslavia

And again: this time about Israel, prolly last piece I'll put up today

For the last 31 years, and thru 38 Security council resolutions,
Israel and its United States of America ally have been oppressing, murdering,

violating human rights, airstriking, commando raid, confiscating of goods and

liberties, and deportations of the people of Palestine and Lebanon.

Here is a list of those resolutions,all conveniently blocked by the USA using its

veto power.
----------------------
1. 10 Sep. 1972 Condemned Israel's attacks against southern Lebanon and Syria.

Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
2. 26 Jul. 1973 Affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self

determination, statehood and equal protections. Vote: 13 to 1 with China absent
3. 08 Dec. 1975 Condemned Israel air strike and attacks in southern Lebanon and its

murder of innocent civilians. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
4. 26 Jan. 1976 Called for self-determination of Palestinian People. Vote: 9 to 1

with 3 abstentions
5. 25 Mar. 1976 Deplored Israel's alteration of the status of Jerusalem, which is

recognized as an international city by most of world nations and the United

Nations. Vote 14 to 1
6. 29 Jun. 1976 Affirmed the Inalienable rights of the Palestinian People. Vote 10

to 1 with 4 abstention
7. 30 Apr. 1980 Endorsed self-determination of Palestinian People. Vote 10 to 1

with 4 abstention
8. 20 Jan. 1982 Demands Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights. Vote 10 to 1

with 4 abstention
9. 01 Apr. 1982 Condemned Israel mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West

Bank and Gaza strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva Conventions Protocols of

civilized nations. Vote: 14 to 1
10. 02 Apr. 1982 Condemned an Israeli soldier who shot 11 Moslem worshipers in the

Haram al Sharif near Al Aqsa mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. Vote: 14 to 1
11. 08 Jun. 1982 Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its

invasion of Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
12. 26 Jun. 1982 Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its

invasion of Beirut, Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
13. 06 Aug. 1982 Urged cut-off economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw

from its occupation of Lebanon. Vote: 11 to 1 with 3 abstention
14. 02 Aug. 1983 Condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian

territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to

peace. Vote: 13 to 1 with 3 abstention
15. 06 Sep. 1984 Deplored Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urged

its withdrawal. Vote: 14 to 1
16. 12 Mar. 1985 Condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounces

Israeli "Iron Fist" policy of repression. Vote: 11 to 1 with 3 abstentions
17. 13 Sep. 1985 Denounced Israel's violations of human rights in the occupied

territories. Vote 10 to 1 with 4 abstentions
18. 17 Jan. 1986 Strongly deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon.Vote: 11

to 1 with 3 abstentions
19. 30 Jan. 1986 Deplored Israel's activities in the occupied Arab East Jerusalem,

which threaten the sanctity of Muslim holy sites. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
20. 06 Feb. 1986 Condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan airplane on Feb. 4, Vote:

10 to 1 with 1 abstention
21. 18 Jan. 1988 Strongly deplored Israeli attacks against Lebanon and its measures

and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1

abstention
22. 01 Feb. 1988 Called on Israel to abandon its policies against Palestinian

uprising that violate the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth

Geneva Convention and formalize a leading role for the U.N. in future peace

negotiations. Vote: 14 to 1
23. 15 Apr. 1988 Urged Israel to accept deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's

shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention and

called for a peace settlement under U.N. auspices. Vote: 14 to 1
24. 10 May 1988 Condemned Israel's May 2 incursion into Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
25. 14 Dec. 1988 Strongly deplored Israel's Dec. 9 commando raids on Lebanon. Vote:

14 to 1
26. 17 Feb 19.89 Strongly deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian uprising

and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. Vote: 14 to 1
27. 09 Jun. 1989 Strongly deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the

Palestinians. Vote: 14 to 1
28. 07 Nov. 1989 Demanded Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians

during a tax protest and allow a fact finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown

on the Palestinian uprising. Vote 14 to 1
29. 31 May 1990 Called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in

Israeli occupied lands. Vote 14 to 1 . United States casts the lone veto to block a

Security Council fact-finding mission to report on abuses of Palestinians in land

Israel captured in war.
30. 04 Apr. 1992 Condemned Israel for the killing of four Palestinians and injuring

50 more, 10 of them seriously, in Rafah. Vote: 14 to 1.
31. 04 Dec. 1993 Urges Israel to allow the return of 101 Palestinian Deportees.

Vote: 14 to 1.
32. 17 May 1995 Condemning Israel's intention of confiscating 134 Acres of land in

East Jerusalem. Vote: 14 to 1. United States blocks a resolution that declared

invalid Israel's expropriation of Arab-owned land in east Jerusalem.
33. 15 Apr. 1996 Condemns Israel's closure of the occupied territories. Vote: 14 to

1.
34. 25 Apr. 1996 Condemned Israel for bombing UN quarters in Qana, South Lebanon,

and the continuous Israeli attacks.
Vote: 14 to 1.
35. 28 Sep. 1996 Condemned Israeli settlements in Ras Al Amud in Jerusalem. Vote:

14 to 1.
36. 07 Mar. 1997 Called for Israel to stop plans to build settlements in Jabal Abu

Ghuneim (Har Homa) in Jerusalem.
Vote: 14 to 1. United States vetoes resolution calling on Israel to refrain from

east Jerusalem settlement activity.
37. 21- 22 Mar. 97 Condemned Israeli settlement in Jabal Abu Ghuneim.
Vote: 14 to 1. United States blocks resolution demanding Israel's immediate

cessation of construction at an east Jerusalem settlement.
38. March 27, 2001: United States vetoes resolution backing a U.N. observer force

to protect Palestinian civilians.
-------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Some more shit US involvement in Foreign assassinations or attempts -- prohibited by Presidential decree since 1976 -- 1960 - General Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq 1961 - Francois Duvalier, leader of Haiti 1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo 1961 - General Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic 1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam 1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba , numerous attempts 1960s - Raul Castro, brother of Fidel. 1965 - Francisco Caamano, Opposition leader, Dominican Republic 1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France 1967 - Ernesto Che Guevara, Cuban leader 1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile 1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander of Chilean Army 1970s, 81 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama 1972 - General Manuel Noriega, chief of Panama Intelligence 1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire 1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica 1980-86 - Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, numerous attempts 1982 - Ayatollah Khomeine, leader of Iran 1983 - General Ahmed Dlimi, Army commander of Morocco 1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua 1984 - All nine leaders of the Nicaraguan National Directorate 1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon Shiite leader 1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq 1998 - Osama bin Laden, former US trained "freedom fighter". 1999 - Slobodan Mlosevic, President of Yugoslavia

so weird.. it almost looks like some kinda DJ lineup ..

haha gotta love this .. photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein back in the day that the US helped to impose him as dictator of the country..



http://www.mydd.com/archives/000427.html

quote:

Originally posted by DiS Jean Chretian is the best thing that happened to Canada. The only politician stat stayed true to himself and his nation during the US's attack on Iraq. (Mostly because he had nothing to loose, unlike everybody else.)

could that be the second worst post on this thread? Stayed true to himself? No more hokey a comment than 'God Bless America' in my opinion. Its pretty easy to 'be true to yourself' when you dont have to worry about getting re-elected or worry about what happens two years from now when you're out of power.. In any case Jean Chretien (btw is how you spell it) is a smart man but he certainly wasn't the only one who condemned the war.

quote:

No more hokey a comment than 'God Bless America' in my opinion.

Come again?

quote:

Its pretty easy to 'be true to yourself' when you dont have to worry about getting re-elected

Did I not mention that he has nothing to loose in the bracket bid?

Do you agree or disagree with my post? You're a smart man that knows how to spell his name! I salute you. Do you support him or not? Not quiet sure where you stand on the issue. You're like a Humpty Dumpty, sitting on the wall, but can't decide which side to fall on. Keep the "worst post" comments to yourself regarding decent post.

quote:

Originally posted by *********** Legal eh? How exactly is it that the US has PROOF, factual and hard proof that Iraq has chemical/other weapons? I agree with what has been said above, I do agree that Saddam has to be ousted but not in the way that it is being done.

I think its funny people talk like this.......If you don't like the way we got him out, then you do it! why don't cry-babies ever act instead of stand in the street and cry? WHERE WERE THE PROTESTS WHEN PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED BY SADDAM? where were you panzi's when families were being gassed and tortured? had you protested, or try to have been a human shield then you would have died...america will not bomb a bridge with innocent people standing on it (not if we can help it) but i am damn sure that saddam would not have had a second thought about gassing you big-mouth bastards if he had the chance. AND I THINK YOU PEOPLE FORGET THAT! GET BENT!

NO ONE EVER WANTS WAR AND KILLING. NEVER! but you have to learn that the only way to stop the killers, and murderers of the world, is by force... I am sorry.....

If you people hadn't noticed no amount of talking or protesting would have ever got saddam out of his chair. he never cared, the thief. why didn't people organize in his streets ans ask for him to GO! or to listen? WHY? cause he would have killed you! as for proof of weapons, i think it may have been a political excuse to stop saddam and his regime. But it was a good excuse. The iraqi's are free, and you wait in the next year.... things will get better for them. try to stay off the bandwagons, chicken little...

you people don't wars, then maybe you should organize some protests that stop giving us reason's to fight......

p.s. i used one person's quote, but this for every one!!!!!!

read a non-fiction book!

quote:

Originally posted by DiS Come again?.. Keep the "worst post" comments to yourself regarding decent post.

I was referring to this:

quote:

Originally posted by DiS hehehehe. That was the worst post on this thread. Are you for real? "God BLess America"? No offense intended, but that was just funny. I especially loved the "Saddam is 'evil' person" bid.

I know what side of the fence I sit on. I disagree with Chretien's position.

quote:

I think its funny people talk like this.......If you don't like the way we got him out, then you do it! why don't cry-babies ever act instead of stand in the street and cry? WHERE WERE THE PROTESTS WHEN PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED BY SADDAM? where were you panzi's when families were being gassed and tortured?

Well I was still a little kid when this all happened but I know what some people were doing at this time.

Donald Rumsfeld was shaking Hussein's hand and smiling at him when people were getting killed by Saddam.
US gov was funneling arms to Iraq and training Iraqi military when people were getting killed by Saddam
US gov lobbied on behalf of Saddam in the UN and elsewhere internationally when people were being killed by Saddam.

There are plenty of reasons for this war to stop, you just have to listen.

DiS, what the fuck is this? Keep this anti-Israeli shit off the boards, okay? Do some fucking research on the political turmoil that's gone on in the middle east rather than posting this Al-Jazeera bullshit.

This was supposed to be a thread about the USA, not Israel. Disparaging the USA because they've supported Israel is total ignorance. The Israeli military tries as hard as they can to protect their people while minimizing the casualties of other people, and the entire world condemns them for it. Fine, I've begun to accept that these days, but I wasn't expecting to see this damn propaganda on the TA forum.

USA "vetoed" these UN resolutions because the UN resolutions were bullshit. Honestly, the UN security council is one thing, but everyone knows that the general assembly is a fucking joke. SO keep it to yourself, okay? Don't act like Palestine is all innocent with their homicide bombers and stone-throwers.

quote:

Originally posted by HardTrance81 I think its funny people talk like this.......If you don't like the way we got him out, then you do it! why don't cry-babies ever act instead of stand in the street and cry? WHERE WERE THE PROTESTS WHEN PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED BY SADDAM? where were you panzi's when families were being gassed and tortured? had you protested, or try to have been a human shield then you would have died...america will not bomb a bridge with innocent people standing on it (not if we can help it) but i am damn sure that saddam would not have had a second thought about gassing you big-mouth bastards if he had the chance. AND I THINK YOU PEOPLE FORGET THAT! GET BENT!

??? i'm confused .. then why is the US so concerned about the well being of the Iraqi Shiite's and Kurds all of a sudden? would the US have the same sympathy for them if Saddam wasn't suspected of having WMD.. ? like would they still go to war against Iraq without this condition .. ?

see i can understand your stance in all this, but if you could answer some of my questions then I might see it in the same light ..

more propaganda from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...tion/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL see i can understand your stance in all this, but if you could answer some of my questions then I might see it in the same light ..

what were their motives in Bosnia?

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