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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 New York firefighters recall �heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.� [New York Post, 3/3/2004] As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O�Toole sees a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, �was dripping from the molten steel.� [Knight Ridder, 5/29/2002] Steven E. Jones, a physics professor from Utah, later will claim this molten metal is �direct evidence for the use of high-temperature explosives, such as thermite,� used to deliberately bring down the WTC towers. [MSNBC, 11/16/2005] He will say that without explosives, a falling building would have �insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal.�

thermite produces molten iron, not molten steel. video of thermite in action please note exactly the way thermite burns (theres no way its gonna burn sideways through a steel pillar), and how much thermite is required to put a hole in the bonnet of a car. how much thermite would be required to burn through the WTC pillars do you think?

quote:

Note how much thermite is used. The pot is about a liter, but how much thermite is that? Stoichiometric thermite requires 2 moles of Al per 1 mole of Fe2O3 2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe 2 moles of Al weigh 54 g 1 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 160 g density of Al=2.64 g/cc density of Fe2O3=5.24 g/cc 54 grams of Al is equivalent to 20.5 cc of Al. 160g of Fe2O3 is equivalent to 30.5 cc of Fe2O3 Therefore, 51 cc of fully dense powder of 20.5 cc Al and 30.5 cc Fe2O3 weighs (54+160) g = 214 g. A volume of 1000 cc would weigh (1000/51)*214 = 4.2 kg For a powder packing density of 50%, the powder would weigh: 0.5*4.2 kg = 2.1 kg = 4.8 lb That much just to burn a small hole in a small car engine. I bet it's even an aluminum block but lets say it isn't. How much do you think it would take to burn a massive core column? Then add enough to burn for 6 weeks! You see where we're going. You'd need tons.

and again, jones' quotes are hardly good evidence as he hasnt the experience to analyse the complexities of the WTC collapse. why would you put his arguments above all of his compatriots at his university that ARE experts in their field, that have totally disowned his "research"?

intellectual dishonesty is the only answer i can come up with.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Yea well please respond to my arguments. And pkcRAISTLININ's as well ... I think they are valid.

um, i think that ^^ was a no?

"September 11th Revisited: Were explosives used?" http://www.911revisited.com

quote:

Originally posted by cenik yes, w/o a doubt..........I think, to an extent, that it was an inside job: it's a perfect example of the gov't unleashing an attack on its own citizens in order to gain more & more control over society (a self-fulfilling prophecy).......another example of this technique? The Nazis' destruction of the Reichstag in the early 1930s in Ger.

Where do all these Bush = Hitler people come from??

Please, that statement is just absurd...

nah, whats more absurd is ogvh5150's complete case of denial, where he comes to post his little links and vids but doesnt have the intellectual committment to combatting contradictory ideas or theories.

its gone like this:

ogv posts link.

someone else posts contrary information.

ogv ignores and posts another link.
(repeat).

i hope ogv's still in highschool or something, coz if he's an adult i really do feel sorry for him.

Loose Change Creators Receive 4 Page Spread in This Month's Vanity Fair (.pdf file)

^^ well, im convinced!!

I just find it hard to believe that the entire scheme was planned out and followed through so easily.

That's understandable. Given the circumstances that you might believe your government might actually protect you from harm, it should come to no surprise that something similar in nature was thought of back in the sixties.

quote:

Operation Northwoods From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Northwoods Memorandum (March 13, 1962) (PDF) Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro as part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative. The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state sponsored terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the highest ranking member of the U.S. military, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer. The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a collection of draft memoranda (PDF) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The document was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. The previously secret document was originally made public on November 18, 1997 by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board [1], a U.S. federal agency overseeing the release of government records related to John F. Kennedy's assassination. [2] [3] A total of about 1500 pages of once-secret military records covering 1962 to 1964 were concomitantly declassified by said Review Board. "Appendix to Enclosure A" and "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" of the Northwoods document were first published online by the National Security Archive on November 6, 1998 in a joint venture with CNN as part of CNN's 1998 Cold War television documentary series[4]�specifically, as a documentation supplement to "Episode 10: Cuba," which aired on November 29, 1998. [5] "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" is the section of the document which contains the proposals to stage terrorist attacks. The Northwoods document was published online in a more complete form (i.e., including cover memoranda) by the National Security Archive on April 30, 2001. [6]

quote:

April 30, 2001 Pentagon Proposed pretexts for Cuba Invasion in 1962 In his new expos� of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled �Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba� was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake �Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,� including �sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),� faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a �Remember the Maine� incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods �may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.� Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.

All warfare is based on deception.
Sun Tzu

Until lions have their historians , tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter
African Proverb

I use cookiecop that is why it says my response cannot be recorded. Besides I don't need to vote. 50,000+ people already did.

Why arent you a sneaky one? What is the major concern for you? Do you believe that the government might be interested in you?

No.

I can't stand the ads I don't need to see.

Besides, all communications have been monitored since the sixties.

I am sure everyone has a profile stored somewhere in a Langley computer. No one is immune from monitoring.

In God we trust
All others we monitor

PS I use cookiecop, ad blocking hosts file with edexter (pink dot is actually a dash), blackice and norton internet. Spybot, adaware and spywareblaster are run once a week. Also firefox religiously.

This is to keep out spam, pop ups, spyware, hackers and p2p cops.

Once in a while I use either tor or privoxy.

This is very bad:

http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/kevi...e-911-call.html

People with fainted heart dont listen/watch to this one.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 No. I can't stand the ads I don't need to see. Besides, all communications have been monitored since the sixties. I am sure everyone has a profile stored somewhere in a Langley computer. No one is immune from monitoring. In God we trust All others we monitor

Do you check your closet for the sandman and FBI agents before you go to sleep?

Come on...how long has "Yellow Submarine" but the Beatles been out?

Note:
"We all live in a Yellow Submarine" refers to, even in the 60s, a database kept underground of detailed civilian information collected by the British government over the years.

I'm trying to find an internet reference but I do remember watching a documentary on it...

So as to whether the government 'monitors' us or not, I think it would pretty naive to think otherwise...

oh yea....BOOGA BOOGA

quote:

Originally posted by dennis Do you check your closet for the sandman and FBI agents before you go to sleep?

No, the sandman is a fairy tale just like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Oops my bad did I let it out too soon for you?

The FBI I wouldn't worry about because knowing people is not a crime.

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml

try and disprove this one cynics!

I knew about the owl for years now, way before 9/11/01:

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 I knew about the owl for years now, way before 9/11/01:

What about the owl?

William Rodriguez, a 9-11 hero, and his testimony about explosion before the plane crashed and talking about how alot of his testimony of was discluded from the 9-11 comission and how they tried to buy him out:

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid What about the owl?

It was a response to the previous post:

quote:

Originally posted by tathi http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml try and disprove this one cynics!

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 It was a response to the previous post:

Right, but what about the owl?

I knew about the owl years before 9/11. Now that 9/11 is past there are people claiming they see things in US notes that they didn't see before.

Unusual Evacuations & Power-Downs in the WTC Prior To 9/11 [link]

In a word.... Yes.

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