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quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie Of course they will, what else did you expect? Even though UN trucks have been used to transport weapons in the past by the Palestinian militants and cought on video, I am not going to jump to conclusions like you are.

The UN and Palestinians are in on attacking Israel??

Nice try

UN HAS to be neutral or theyll be "Anti- semetic" or some shit like that

Speaking of the UN, lets see what they just decided:

U.N. calls for immediate Gaza truce

Israel pushed ahead with its offensive in the Gaza Strip on Friday, ignoring a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire

The Security Council passed a resolution urging an "immediate, durable and fully respected ceasefire," and for Israel to withdraw from Gaza after its two-week air-and-ground offensive. The United States abstained.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/...stinians_israel

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King The UN and Palestinians are in on attacking Israel?? Nice try UN HAS to be neutral or they'll be "Anti- semetic" or some shit like that

LOL, nice try generalizing my statement. Because there was a previous incident, it means there is a possibility, a precedent. I never said ALL the UN does that as common practice. Way to fanaticize my words. Fanaticizing is good for propaganda, keep up the good work, you're doing great!

quote:

Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty this is the first time i hear about this and...whoah. that is fucked up, that's bad. this sheds new light on many things, at least for me. but still, thats no excuse for what happened the other day. not taking any sides, im just saying.

I hear, that wasn't me taking a shot at you - if it seems like it was, I apologise. My issue is that there are a lot of double standards being played out here. Much like Abercrombie, I absolutely hate extremism on both ends - and it very much exists on both ends. My aim here, again, is to tone down that extremism - I don't expect to convince anyone of anything new. Simply trying to guide those that ARE trying to understand the situation and haven't buried their heads in the dirt - and hopefully I'm not involving too much of my own bias in doing so.

There's dirt on both sides, and I'd say whether it's entirely evenly placed or not, it's damn close.

Digi take a look.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/101368.pdf (14M pdf, Israel p546)

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/asm...e_programs.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgNjU1feht4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2-...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckd...feature=related

seriously, people need to stop posting youtube videos as evidence for anything....they are all biased garbage.

As a massive humanitarian test project, they should just send an entire town over to the middle east to give a hand.

I'm thinking Goderich...yeah, let's send Goderich.

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced seriously, people need to stop posting youtube videos as evidence for anything....they are all biased garbage.

hey chem..i know you seem pretty neutral..but how do you substantiate that youtube is biased..?

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear hey chem..i know you seem pretty neutral..but how do you substantiate that youtube is biased..?

youtube is not biased....the sources that make the videos are biased.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced youtube is not biased....the sources that make the videos are biased.

but how can the sources be biased if it is open to the general public? it is representative of the public at large....there are no rules on who can join and post..you don't have to have certain affiliations to post a video...so, some may be bias..but if you have a good piece of footage that is backed by facts..i don't see what the problem is with posting the video...

what ummie posted is not a biased piece..it is footage of a professor from israel that is speaking to a group of individuals in a university in the US. It is not edited..it's a scholar that is giving a lecture to another group of scholars...So who is bias..the professor or the person who posted the footage? I just don't get it..people make general comments like "footage on youtube is biased" and it is based on nothing that makes sense..

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear but how can the sources be biased if it is open to the general public? it is representative of the public at large....there are no rules on who can join and post..you don't have to have certain affiliations to post a video...so, some may be bias..but if you have a good piece of footage that is backed by facts..i don't see what the problem is with posting the video... what ummie posted is not a biased piece..it is footage of a professor from israel that is speaking to a group of individuals in a university in the US. It is not edited..it's a scholar that is giving a lecture to another group of scholars...So who is bias..the professor or the person who posted the footage? I just don't get it..people make general comments like "footage on youtube is biased" and it is based on nothing that makes sense..

Okay....generally speaking....most of the videos in this thread are biased videos that don't show both sides of the event. Any video footage used to support an arguement is biased as its only showing one side of the issue. If anyone has video footage that shows both sides of the issue then post that.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Okay....generally speaking....most of the videos in this thread are biased videos that don't show both sides of the event. Any video footage used to support an arguement is biased as its only showing one side of the issue. If anyone has video footage that shows both sides of the issue then post that.

That would be generally hard to find, but Canadian news in general provides that, I find.


What would be interesting is to see videos from Gaza Palestinians that are against Hamas and blame them for recent incidents, to get some balance. Surely not everyone is Gaza supports Hamas.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Okay....generally speaking....most of the videos in this thread are biased videos that don't show both sides of the event. Any video footage used to support an arguement is biased as its only showing one side of the issue. If anyone has video footage that shows both sides of the issue then post that.

Ok here is a senario for you .........Lets suppose a guy gets rushed by 25 people @ albion mall....there is a camera on the corner of the mall that records how the guy gets rushed by all those 25 people once when it rotates 180 degrees and on the second rotation of the 180 degree it shows those guys rushing away from the victim getting into their cars and running away from the crime scene.

Now if this evidence is presented in the court would it be thrown out of court by simply saying its biased as it only shows what happened to the victim or victims side of the story only since it doesnt show anything or tells anything about what the victim did in the first place for those 25 people to do what they did......??????

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear but how can the sources be biased if it is open to the general public? it is representative of the public at large....there are no rules on who can join and post..you don't have to have certain affiliations to post a video...so, some may be bias..but if you have a good piece of footage that is backed by facts..i don't see what the problem is with posting the video... what ummie posted is not a biased piece..it is footage of a professor from israel that is speaking to a group of individuals in a university in the US. It is not edited..it's a scholar that is giving a lecture to another group of scholars...So who is bias..the professor or the person who posted the footage? I just don't get it..people make general comments like "footage on youtube is biased" and it is based on nothing that makes sense..

You just basically asked how members of the general public can be biased? Let's see. The general public is made up of people, from both sides of the issue. Members of one side, lets call them Ferrari lovers, make videos saying that Ferrari's perform very well, disregarding that they break down a lot, cost a lot and have very high insurance rates. Members of the other side make a video showing that Frod's are inexpensive, and very economical, disregarding the fact that they break down a lot, and may have inferior build quality.

The fact that youtube is open to the general public is what allows for videos on there to be biased. THERE IS NO CHECK.

Your words such as 'professor', 'scholars', and 'university' are just fallacies, in which you attempt to legitimize the source with credentials. When you make a point, don't throw around titles, or institutions. Throw around facts. I agree that if somebody is going to call it biased then they should have facts as well, but you have done nothing to legitimize the sources you are defending.

There are a lot educated people on here, that just do not know how to construct an argument. By constructing, and using poor arguments, you are only furthering yourself from the goal of persuading the other parties. So please for the love of god, leave the emotion out of your arguments, and start with some facts, with some sources, and well thought out points. (not specifically directed at you gummybear) This is the whole problem in this thread. A lot name calling, and lot of emotional walls.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko You just basically asked how members of the general public can be biased? Let's see. The general public is made up of people, from both sides of the issue. Members of one side, lets call them Ferrari lovers, make videos saying that Ferrari's perform very well, disregarding that they break down a lot, cost a lot and have very high insurance rates. Members of the other side make a video showing that Frod's are inexpensive, and very economical, disregarding the fact that they break down a lot, and may have inferior build quality. The fact that youtube is open to the general public is what allows for videos on there to be biased. THERE IS NO CHECK. Your words such as 'professor', 'scholars', and 'university' are just fallacies, in which you attempt to legitimize the source with credentials. When you make a point, don't throw around titles, or institutions. Throw around facts. I agree that if somebody is going to call it biased then they should have facts as well, but you have done nothing to legitimize the sources you are defending. There are a lot educated people on here, that just do not know how to construct an argument. By constructing, and using poor arguments, you are only furthering yourself from the goal of persuading the other parties. So please for the love of god, leave the emotion out of your arguments, and start with some facts, with some sources, and well thought out points. (not specifically directed at you gummybear) This is the whole problem in this thread. A lot name calling, and lot of emotional walls.

Digi indicated that he didn't feel the US supported Israel as much as we said..I have provided several sources..along with some other people on here...that supports what we all know to be true..some of us posted videos...some posted articles...report...stats (put out by a washington journal)...etc..the end.

Yes, i have been emotional about what is going on..but..i would never make statements about the general conflict without backing it up. If you read back, you will see that all i have ever talked about is the current actions of israel and the happenings of this current conflict..I have never once got into the history, the occupation..who the land belongs to..religion..etc..etc...cuz those subjects can sometimes become subjective...

There are a lot of people making very bold statements here...such as the youtube comment.....how can you even quantify such a statement? it is so subjective..you would have to be a psychic to know the intentions of every person who posts or makes a video....so, to me...people that make comments like that are basing it from their emotions..because they "feel" that it is, so it is....all i wanted chem to do was quantify it for me...instead of arguing about youtube and whether it's biased..why don't people just be happy that we have so many mediums that we are able to access..how else would we be able to see this professor speak? why not listen to the message rather than jumping on the medium right away??

maybe it's cuz people don't want to hear the message so they attack the medium??

but thanks for your opinions of me..i will definitely keep them in mind

OK then if the source is not an issue, and we are to look at the message... I did find a Palestinian opinion not shared here previously.



As you can see, not all Palestinians are estremists, nor do they all support Hamas.

All I am suggesting is people shouldn't be using videos they find on youtube as evidence to support their position....just like you wouldn't use a youtube video in your thesis for school.

The majority of the videos in this thread are nothing more then biased views of one side of the story. SOme of the videos have no references to sources for information contained in them and others are just video footage that some person shot with no guarantee of its validity.

I was watching BBC.. and the corresspondent in Jeruselem was explaining how the IDF rounded up about 100 people into a building telling them it was a safe place to stay and told them not to leave.

13 hours later, they shelled it and ended up killing 30 people from that group


IDF = TERRORISTS

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King IDF = TERRORISTS

IDF + The Govt of Israel = Terrorists.


Fixed

Zionism = Terrorism

to the person who found the quote of David Ben-Guiron not to be of any importance here well you re jsut dumb.

beacuse in that quote you have a former Prime Minister of Israel who accepted the fact that Israel had stolen palestinian land and he also agreed that there could be no peace between them. here ill quote it again.

"I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out. "



heres another quote from David Ben Gurion former israeli prime minister



�We must use TERROR, Assasination, Intimidation, Land Confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.�

Shade

quote:

Regardless - I don't know what you're trying to say with this.

really you dont know what im trying to say with these quotes REALLY.

maybe you should take your head out of your ass and learn to read what your former prime minister said.

Use terror as in TERRORISM you dumbass

Israel = Terrorist state

quote:

Originally posted by DarV to the person who found the quote of David Ben-Guiron not to be of any importance here well you re jsut dumb. beacuse in that quote you have a former Prime Minister of Israel who accepted the fact that Israel had stolen palestinian land and he also agreed that there could be no peace between them. here ill quote it again. "I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out. " heres another quote from David Ben Gurion former israeli prime minister �We must use TERROR, Assasination, Intimidation, Land Confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.�

Politicians do say stupid things, I agree.

To show that political leaders on BOTH sides have not said the best things in their interest, here's Hamas' quotes on TV;

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear why do you say that..because YOU don't believe it to be true? or can't conceive of it..?

Because if Israel's mission were to 'ethnic cleanse', then all the other arab villages in the country would be targeted, and that's just not the f'in case. But thank you for jumping on the bandwagon.

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