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Posted by gummybear on Jan-10-2009 02:02:

quote:
Originally posted by tatgirl
Because if Israel's mission were to 'ethnic cleanse', then all the other arab villages in the country would be targeted, and that's just not the f'in case. But thank you for jumping on the bandwagon.

hey tatgirl..why get testy with me? all i'm suggesting is how do we really know the intentions of any government? do you think there is any one government in this world that is %100 honest?

and i have no clue what you're referring to in terms of the bandwagon..

btw. to those that are interested here's the link to the article about the house they shelled...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast...rael/index.html

yes, for what it's worth..it is cnn..before someone makes a commentary..

what i don't understand is, why would they make people take shelter in a house and then kill them..is that not an execution?

Posted by tatgirl on Jan-10-2009 02:14:

quote:
Originally posted by gummybear
hey tatgirl..why get testy with me? all i'm suggesting is how do we really know the intentions of any government? do you think there is any one government in this world that is %100 honest?

Because when you, or anyone else in this go-no-where discussion, throws the 'ethnic cleansing' argument around, you'd better have proof, cuz those are big words. No, there is no 100% honest government, but it certainly is not in Israel's desires to ethnic cleanse anyone. Its not hidden, its not secret, its just not gonna happen. Its own people wouldn't let it happen even if the 'government' tried to make it happen.

Unfortunately, many children in the territories are raised with stories of Jewish tourists coming to Israel, being handed guns, and are given the right to go shoot Arabs, as some sort of tourist package holiday option. Those kids dont even have a chance.

Posted by gummybear on Jan-10-2009 02:33:

quote:
Originally posted by tatgirl
Because when you, or anyone else in this go-no-where discussion, throws the 'ethnic cleansing' argument around, you'd better have proof, cuz those are big words. No, there is no 100% honest government, but it certainly is not in Israel's desires to ethnic cleanse anyone. Its not hidden, its not secret, its just not gonna happen. Its own people wouldn't let it happen even if the 'government' tried to make it happen.

Unfortunately, many children in the territories are raised with stories of Jewish tourists coming to Israel, being handed guns, and are given the right to go shoot Arabs, as some sort of tourist package holiday option. Those kids dont even have a chance.

i don't recall saying anything about ethnic cleansing...you can quote me if i'm wrong..but....if there are theories that hamas wants to wipe out israel and the jews..would it be a far fetched notion to say that maybe..just maybe..israel feels the same way about the palestinians/muslims? or is israel the civilized side in all this..? recent weeks would show that they are not being civilized..unless you call committing human rightsd violations over and over again, the act of a civilized government...

Posted by DarV on Jan-10-2009 03:56:

Tatgirl spoken like a true zionist, ethnic cleansing has been the policy ever since the creation of Israel. Now if you re blind enough to see that and if you re blind enough to see what your OWN prime minister said then you re just being a hypocrit.

Israel has ethnicly cleansed palestine slowly slowly like the Nazis did to your own people. You should remember the suffering your forfathers had to go trough and how they were ethnically cleansed from germany YOU SHOULDNt be doing the same thing to others.

your own prime minister said that they would use terror assasinations to cleanse the palestinians what more do you need to understand that thats what they ve been doing ever since they came to palestine.

either you re blind or you re a hypocrite.

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jan-10-2009 04:28:

quote:
Iran Threatens to Break Israel's Gaza Blockade

http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/3288.cfm

It is hard to imagine how much worse the situation could get, but the confrontation in Gaza could see a dangerous escalation in the coming days as Iran threatens to break the Israeli blockade and deliver urgently needed medical supplies and other aid to the coastal strip.

If the ground offensive currently underway in Gaza becomes a full-fledged occupation with the resultant removal of Hamas from authority, then the arrival of the MV Iran Shahed in the Mediterranean will be something of an anti-climax. Too little, too late.

But while even a small stretch of beach remains under Palestinian control, there is the frightening possibility that Iranian Red Crescent volunteers might attempt a landing.

There is no denying that what has long been described as a humanitarian crisis in Gaza is rapidly descending into a humanitarian catastrophe.

Despite the Israeli "withdrawal" from Gaza in 2005, the Jewish State controls all border crossings, airspace, and the coastline -- creating what critics have described as the largest open air prison in the world.

Following the victory of Hamas in parliamentary elections in 2006, the territory was essentially placed under siege, with increasing shortages of even the most basic of daily necessities.

Iran has been a vocal critic of Arab nations, Egypt in particular, for not doing enough to break the Israeli siege and help the 1.5 million people of Gaza, and it seems they have now taken things into their own hands.

Even at the best of times Iran's action would have been interpreted by US and Israeli authorities as a deliberate provocation. But given the rapid deterioration in the security situation over the past week, there are those who would accuse of Tehran of seeking a direct and possibly violent confrontation.

But whatever their motive, nobody should be surprised that Tehran is making a move.

"In recent years, in part due to poor US foreign policy decisions, Iran has been rising a power in the Middle East," says US-based political analyst and activist, Kevin Zeese.

"By taking this type of action, they will be admired by many people of Arab and Persian descent," he said.

Describing it as a "judo move" -- Zeese said through this non-violent action Iran will strengthen itself, and Israel will be weakened.

"It is a judo move that uses Israel's strength against them."

Zeese said it is a no-win situation for the Jewish State.

"If they block the supplies it will make them look more inhumane," he said, "but if they let them through it will simply highlight the need for such humanitarian supplies."

Professor Paul Sheldon Foote from California State University says it is time for decent people to act.

"Iran is correct for taking a stand," he said, "Iran and other Islamic countries should do even more, such as breaking diplomatic relations with Egypt and Saudi Arabia unless the leaders of those countries end the Israeli siege, massacres, and invasions of Gaza."

International human rights lawyer, Francis A. Boyle, however, doubts that any Arab countries have the stomach for a confrontation with Washington.

"As for the leaders of the Arab states, most of them are in the pocket of the United States," he said, "Look at the Arab League, a worthless talking shop."

He accused the Arab League only putting out meaningless statements in an attempt to convince their own people that they are doing something, but he said, "the Palestinians have always been on their own, and they know it."

Boyle, who has offered his services to the government of Iran to represent them in a lawsuit against Israel, says there are measures the international community should immediately consider to halt the bloodshed.

"A World Court lawsuit against Israel for genocide; reconvening the Emergency Special Session for Palestine by the UN General Assembly under the Uniting for Peace Resolution; comprehensive economic and other sanctions against Israel; and the suspension of Israel from all UN General Assembly activities, such as it did to South Africa and Yugoslavia."

The Emergency Special Session for Palestine was first convened in 1997 and officially remains "adjourned."

Hamas came to power in January 2006 through a fair and open election process. But according to many experts on the issue, their success had more to do with a deep dissatisfaction with Fatah rather than any particular support for Hamas policies.

Fatah's failure to strike a firm and lasting deal with the Israelis and allegations of endemic corruption were the prime factors that decided the outcome of the election.

The United States, the European Union and Israel immediately insisted that Hamas recognize the Jewish State and renounce violence.

Looks like Iran is the only country thats willing to make a move and try to help the people inside Gaza.

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jan-10-2009 04:33:

Simply speachless.

Posted by mdabat on Jan-10-2009 10:47:

This is complete non-sense, look at you people, living in the luxury and safety of Canada and arguing about the conflict, getting all political and philosophical about the conflict.

Here is a piece of news that should shut many of you up. This morning my girlfriend's cousin got shot in the head by an Israeli soldier, she was 17 years old. How do i know this? My girlfriend's parents live in Gaza. How am I dating a girl from Gaza? We are both international students.

For all of you who try to say im talking shit, here is a big FUCK YOU!

And I will end this with a simple comment: war never gets you anywhere, and arguing will never get you anywhere either. May god help Maha, who is currently suffering, i dearly hope she does not die.

Posted by Damerchi on Jan-10-2009 11:03:

quote:
Originally posted by mdabat
This is complete non-sense, look at you people, living in the luxury and safety of Canada and arguing about the conflict, getting all political and philosophical about the conflict.

Here is a piece of news that should shut many of you up. This morning my girlfriend's cousin got shot in the head by an Israeli soldier, she was 17 years old. How do i know this? My girlfriend's parents live in Gaza. How am I dating a girl from Gaza? We are both international students.

For all of you who try to say im talking shit, here is a big FUCK YOU!

And I will end this with a simple comment: war never gets you anywhere, and arguing will never get you anywhere either. May god help Maha, who is currently suffering, i dearly hope she does not die.

You cant disregard people's opinion just because they are fortunate enough to live away from bullets. This gives them access to heaps of knowledge, and the leisure time to get immersed into such topics and formulate an opinion. Would you rather them discuss and express their concerns or just be like, "oh is that a strip club downtown somewhere"

The matter of the fact is a large portion of even the palestinian academic community does not live in Palestine.

Its obvious that you're speaking out of passion, I can see where you are coming from, I have had similar experiences(Iraq), and it can be frustrating when you here some seemingly cold rhetoric that makes the poster look like he/she is a direct supporter of these evil actions.

Dont hate on people cause they live in Canada they tend to be more balanced in their opinions than many areas in the world.

Best of luck to the Girl and her Fam

Posted by T_ALI on Jan-10-2009 11:03:

That sucks man. Hopefully she'll be ok.

I was in Lebanon last year visiting family, and we tried to get into Palestine to see what was going on but the Israeli soldiers wouldn't let us. I stll would love to visit Palestine someday.

Posted by Shade on Jan-10-2009 16:51:

quote:
Originally posted by DarV
Shade

really you dont know what im trying to say with these quotes REALLY.

maybe you should take your head out of your ass and learn to read what your former prime minister said.

Use terror as in TERRORISM you dumbass

Israel = Terrorist state

First, the fact that you're running to curse at me and simply repeat a quote, shows that you're not actually making any statement. Would you like me to quote politicians and fanatics on the other side who hold radical and rather blatantly wrong positions? It really doesn't 'support' any point to do so.

Posted by tatgirl on Jan-10-2009 17:35:

quote:
Originally posted by DarV
Tatgirl spoken like a true zionist, ethnic cleansing has been the policy ever since the creation of Israel. Now if you re blind enough to see that and if you re blind enough to see what your OWN prime minister said then you re just being a hypocrit.

Israel has ethnicly cleansed palestine slowly slowly like the Nazis did to your own people. You should remember the suffering your forfathers had to go trough and how they were ethnically cleansed from germany YOU SHOULDNt be doing the same thing to others.

your own prime minister said that they would use terror assasinations to cleanse the palestinians what more do you need to understand that thats what they ve been doing ever since they came to palestine.

either you re blind or you re a hypocrite.

Np, my dear, you are either a hypocrite, or really stupid. It is NOT Israel's policy to ethnic cleanse, either rapidly or slowly. There are no gas chambers, no hidden agenda, no tourist packages handing people guns to shoot arabs, nothing. I'm sorry if you cant wrap your head around it.

Targeted assasinations of militants does not = ethnic cleansing by any means. Is the US guilty of the same for going after Al Queda & their followers? Gimme a break.

Bottom line here folks, violence is getting them nowhere. Until they learn that negotiations is the only way to resolve this, this madness will continue.

Posted by gummybear on Jan-10-2009 18:34:

Posted by Spam on Jan-10-2009 21:07:

quote:
Originally posted by gummybear
...if there are theories that hamas wants to wipe out israel and the jews..

Theories? Please buddy, get a clue. Hamas has declared those intentions, publicly, clearly, and loudly. How the hell do you call THAT a 'theory'?

Attack Israel all you want, their tactics in this war and the civilian casualties that result are unacceptable. But STOP giving Hamas a free ride for their part in this conflict, they are FAR from innocent themselves.

Posted by Abercrombie on Jan-11-2009 01:05:

quote:
Originally posted by gummybear
....if there are theories that Hamas wants to wipe out israel and the jews..

You know... some of your previous arguements made sense, but this one unfortunately, really makes a bad impression on you and how much you know about Hamas. Your statements are beginning to feel like you are supporting the radical islamist militants (or terrorists by Canada and most of the world).

Posted by UmmiE on Jan-11-2009 01:20:

quote:
Originally posted by Abercrombie
You know... some of your previous arguements made sense, but this one unfortunately, really makes a bad impression on you and how much you know about Hamas. Your statements are beginning to feel like you are supporting the radical islamist militants (or terrorists by Canada and most of the world).

Well hamas has said to do it......but infact the real truth is that Israel is actually doing it....seems like you guys arent looking at all the protest happening in the world right now to end it.....they have completely disregarded the fact that UN has asked them to stop it and are continuing the war crimes currently going on in GAZA in which more than 800+ have lost their lives and more 3680+(50% are women and childern) injured how would you explain that ?????

Who is the real terrorist here?Who has disregarded the UN and killed even innocent UN workers too..........?????

Posted by Shaya007 on Jan-11-2009 01:37:

quote:
Originally posted by tatgirl
go-no-where discussion

Posted by gummybear on Jan-11-2009 01:51:

quote:
Originally posted by Abercrombie
You know... some of your previous arguements made sense, but this one unfortunately, really makes a bad impression on you and how much you know about Hamas. Your statements are beginning to feel like you are supporting the radical islamist militants (or terrorists by Canada and most of the world).

How the heck to you get to the conclusion.???? all i was saying was if one side feels the other side wants to wipe them out..then maybe the other side feels that way too....how the fuck did i say anything about supporting hamas??

I don't support any form of terrorism.....but thanks for asking...

to be honest..i'm done with this conversation and so disillusioned by this world.....and so fucking angry..

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=81515§ionid=351020202

biased or not...take it for what it's worth..

Posted by Spam on Jan-11-2009 02:36:

Posted by Abercrombie on Jan-11-2009 03:32:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
Well hamas has said to do it......but infact the real truth is that Israel is actually doing it....seems like you guys arent looking at all the protest happening in the world right now to end it.....they have completely disregarded the fact that UN has asked them to stop it and are continuing the war crimes currently going on in GAZA in which more than 800+ have lost their lives and more 3680+(50% are women and childern) injured how would you explain that ?????

Who is the real terrorist here?Who has disregarded the UN and killed even innocent UN workers too..........?????

I guess you didn't read the same news and reports that Hamas has refused UN's request as well, just the same. Ummie, I am siding with the Palestinians too, but I just can't side with Hamas or those that support them, and these are the bad apples. They are the ones that give the wrong impression to the rest of the world. This is why it's so hard convincing the world of the atrocities you want people to know about.

Well like others here ... there's no sense continuing this thread anymore either. Logic can't reason with emotion.

Posted by UmmiE on Jan-11-2009 03:37:

quote:
Originally posted by Spam
As horrible as each death may be. A few hundred, or even a few thousand deaths hardly qualify as "ethnic cleansing".

Well atleast we can call it "Organized Terrorism".

Posted by UmmiE on Jan-11-2009 03:42:

quote:
Originally posted by Abercrombie
I guess you didn't read the same news and reports that Hamas has refused UN's request as well, just the same. Ummie, I am siding with the Palestinians too, but I just can't side with Hamas or those that support them, and these are the bad apples. They are the ones that give the wrong impression to the rest of the world. This is why it's so hard convincing the world of the atrocities you want people to know about.

Well like others here ... there's no sense continuing this thread anymore either. Logic can't reason with emotion.

AJ I dont support hamas nor do I think they should be doing what they are doing ..... and I feel the same about what the other side and what they are doing.What I dont like is when people only point fingers on one side....thats what pisses me off.

This thread should be closed and deleted.

Posted by INFERNO2K on Jan-11-2009 03:47:

Ya'll need to watch this.

Israeli IDF conversation with Palestinians.

Posted by Abercrombie on Jan-11-2009 03:48:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
AJ I dont support hamas nor do I think they should be doing what they are doing ..... and I feel the same about what the other side and what they are doing.What I dont like is when people only point fingers on one side....thats what pisses me off.

This thread should be closed and deleted.

I agree with you there buddy!

Posted by Spam on Jan-11-2009 04:06:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
Well atleast we can call it "Organized Terrorism".

Call them what they are. Horrible attacks that claim civilian life.

I think the word "terrorism" is a cop-out anyway. The only reason ANYONE is a terrorist is because there's a more powerful government body in power that creates the label. I prefer the term "militant" for any group that uses their firepower and force to try to achieve their goals. One man's 'terrorist' is another's 'freedom fighter', so I'm not a fan of labeling anything as a terrorist act, it's simply an "attack" in my world.

Posted by love_child on Jan-11-2009 04:23:

How bout them leafs! huh? oh wait they lost

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