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Posted by Nemesis44 on Feb-21-2006 19:40:

Forgive me for asking but isn't the tonic when one key is exactly the same as an other.

What I do is mix two different keys to make a chord with the basslines. All be it a very simple chord (E5 aka powerchord) for example.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by est on Feb-21-2006 19:54:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
Forgive me for asking but isn't the tonic when one key is exactly the same as an other.

The tonic is just the name for the first note in the scale of any given key. Each degree in a scale has a name and the tonic is the name for the bottom note, which happens to be the one that the key is named after, (pretty much the same as the root). Hope that makes sense.

When mixing 2 keys that are the same, I call that a 'keymatch' (that's just a neologism of my own though hehe).

quote:
What I do is mix two different keys to make a chord with the basslines. All be it a very simple chord (E5 aka powerchord) for example.

If you did a -3 on easymix, that would be a minor 3rd. Cool chord to work with in trance

Posted by Nemesis44 on Feb-21-2006 20:23:

Aye, use it all the time.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by burner69 on Feb-24-2006 14:07:

Hopefully someone can help me here...

OK, I've been mixing harmonically for a month or so now, keying tracks is no probs, and I understand which keys will mix into other keys, but how exactly should I use this to compose a set?

I heard Oakie chatting about being able to control the dancefloor, changing keys at a certain time to make the place explode. How? Should I begin with a string of tunes in one key, then change the key with a phat stomper of a tune?
After that do I revert back to a Cm, Cm, Cm, Cm, then churn out a crazy Gm tune?

Has anyone found certain key progressions work well as a build up? Perhaps chord progressions?

I've been playing around with this for a while, and certainly since mixing harmonically my sets have improved no end, but I sometimes feel like I could be missing out on some potential with shifting keys.

As ever, any help much appreciated.

Posted by burner69 on Feb-24-2006 14:08:

Posted by burner69 on Feb-24-2006 14:09:

Posted by Nemesis44 on Feb-24-2006 16:13:

The type of mix that Oakie is talking about is primarily the key lift mix but it�s not a mix that you can do all the time or it does get a little old. But it�s not just about mixing in a certain way, there is a lot to be said for knowing when a specific tune will do the job and that comes from reading the crowd.

The way I do it is as follows:
When I start my set I will usually possibly mix a few tracks in the same key just to establish a flow and to find my own pace even given the dance floor some time to adjust to my style. I will make sure that they are good tunes that will establish a solid groove.
After this I will start changing the key but still keeping it to stuff that is compatible in terms of complementing keys.
When people are starting to look as if they are settled in and getting used to my groove I like to surprise them so then I will look to do a mix where I lift the key (i.e. 5a to 12a). These two tunes can�t run at the same time musically so you have to do a quicker style mix where you just literally swap bass in a drum roll or similar and kill the outgoing tune quickly. Sometimes you will find tunes that do this pretty will all by themselves and that makes them ideal.
You still have to remember that this ties in with reading the crowd too but if you do this mix with the right tune you can have double the impact compared to just playing the right tune at the right time.
This type of mixing can actually make a relatively flat tune selection seem better than it is which is especially helpful if you are the warm up guy.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by DJ_RoKo on Mar-10-2006 09:12:

sup,

ok kids i've read a little bit on harmonic mixing a little while ago and couldn't make sense of it but now i've just read the last few pages in this thread and keyed all my tunes(used mixshares database, i think a couple might be wrong but i'll check 'em).

so far ive got mixing into these keys work well:
-3
-1
+1
+4
+7
and that +7 needs to be a quick transistion as it musically doesnt mix and +/- 6% pitch changes the key by one.

is this correct and is all this going by keycodes??

now i kinda understand that but i know absolutely nothing about musical theory eg. keys, chords so im just gonna wing it. so now i am ready to try it out.

btw does anyone know of a decent bpm calculator eg. type in X bpm and Y bpm and tells difference in % between X & Y?

thanx for all the info fellas,
i'll tell ya's how i go and post a mix asap. looking forward to seeing how well i can do this.

peace
-sonykc

(this thread is a bit of a mess but worth the read, lol, im probably adding to the mess, )

Posted by est on Mar-10-2006 12:12:

Basically any keys that are next to each other on the wheel will mix nicely. The keys that are next to each other have similar key signatures, so there isn't much that can clash.

As for the others that you mention, they can work but you have to be a little more careful. +7 and is a semitone rise, which can work really well as a cut, but could sound horrendous if the actual harmonies (the meat of the tune, with chords and melodies etc) were layered. -3 and +4 involves creating a chord out of 2 basslines, but again might sound quite off if the harmonies were layered.

Yup, its a good idea to check all keys yourself, even if just so as you have this ability and understand what a key actually is!

Posted by DJ_RoKo on Mar-10-2006 13:34:

oh ok kool,
i've catalogued all my vinyls in orders and tried to work out a set. heres one possibillity;

SONYX TRANCE SET 1

1. armin van buuren feat. jan vayne - serenity
(signum remix) 136.0bpm 8A
2. ernesto vs bastian - dark side of the moon
(marc van linden remix) 137.0bpm 8A -
3. e-craig - call it a day (quick mix-before melody)
(212 pm mix) 137.6bpm 12A +4
4. above & beyond - no one on earth
(original mix) 138.0bpm 1A +1
5. armas - angels & demons (quick mix-before melody)
(carl b remix) 138.0bpm 10A -3
6. fire & ice - let there be light
(primer OR original mix) 138.0bpm 11A +1
7. energy 52 - cafe del mar (quick mix-before melody)
(marco v remix) 139.2bpm 8A -3
8. hiver and hammer - fusion 2006 (quick mix-use percs)
(original mix) 139.6bpm 12A +2
9. wonders - the morning after (quick mix-use percs)
(octagen's night before remix) 139.8bpm 2A +2
10. andy b - acceleration (quick mix-before melody)
(acceleration) 140.0bpm 6A +4
11. system f - out of the blue
(system f 5am mix) 142.5bpm 6A -

lol, my collection is very limited atm but is this heading along the right way?

-sonykc

Posted by Camelot_Sound on Mar-12-2006 07:28:

I would stick with the Easymix System rule of plus or minus one keycode.

Posted by DJ_RoKo on Mar-13-2006 00:50:

yeah its just that dont have that many records so the chance of the next vinyl being either +1 or -1 is a slim possibility, thanx anyway guys. i understand most of this

Posted by skip on Mar-16-2006 15:51:

can anyone recommend me any good free software synths to help me key my tracks? thanks.

Posted by est on Mar-16-2006 16:18:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
can anyone recommend me any good free software synths to help me key my tracks? thanks.

Do you mean software that keys them for you? There is some but it's better and more accurate if you can do it yourself. A java piano works fine for that: CLICKY

Posted by skip on Mar-16-2006 17:11:

quote:
Originally posted by est
Do you mean software that keys them for you? There is some but it's better and more accurate if you can do it yourself. A java piano works fine for that: CLICKY

i mean a software piano, not something that keys for me. i asked my friend to teach me how to key tunes when we were both very drunk and i showed him the rapid evolution program and the piano it has and he thought it was absolute crap and that i couldn't learn anything with that!
so now i'm after a good software piano that would be much better to key my tracks with and i'd rather use software than some java piano on a website if possible. thanks

Posted by est on Mar-16-2006 17:37:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
i mean a software piano, not something that keys for me. i asked my friend to teach me how to key tunes when we were both very drunk and i showed him the rapid evolution program and the piano it has and he thought it was absolute crap and that i couldn't learn anything with that!
so now i'm after a good software piano that would be much better to key my tracks with and i'd rather use software than some java piano on a website if possible. thanks

Fair enough...I don't know anything about that though! A java piano is more than enough to key a tune though, as all you need is the pitch of a note. I do it with just a tuning fork when i can't be bothered to load up java (in fact I'm usually spot on or just a semitone out when I try keying just by aural guesswork alone).

Posted by skip on Mar-16-2006 17:51:

quote:
Originally posted by est
Fair enough...I don't know anything about that though! A java piano is more than enough to key a tune though, as all you need is the pitch of a note. I do it with just a tuning fork when i can't be bothered to load up java (in fact I'm usually spot on or just a semitone out when I try keying just by aural guesswork alone).

that's nice! i wish i had musical talent, but i have none whatsoever! my friend tried to explain to me how i would go on about keying my tracks and i didn't understand any of it. he keyed a couple in no time and i didn't get it at all. although we both were very drunk at the time, but i'm pretty sure he really has to sit down with me and tell me what i'm doing wrong and what i should be doing. i was just thinking that it could be nice to get a good software piano so we'd get started right away and properly.

Posted by est on Mar-16-2006 18:18:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
that's nice! i wish i had musical talent, but i have none whatsoever! my friend tried to explain to me how i would go on about keying my tracks and i didn't understand any of it. he keyed a couple in no time and i didn't get it at all. although we both were very drunk at the time, but i'm pretty sure he really has to sit down with me and tell me what i'm doing wrong and what i should be doing. i was just thinking that it could be nice to get a good software piano so we'd get started right away and properly.

hehe i dont think it takes talent, like you say just needs someone to sit down and show you how its done. If you don't already know, you need to figure out the note names for keyboards.

You're basically looking for the note that fits the piece the best (just play around until you get it). That's what the key will be named after, then figure out whether its major or minor (90% of EDM is minor, but don't assume that all your tunes are!).

Posted by skip on Mar-16-2006 18:31:

quote:
Originally posted by est
hehe i dont think it takes talent, like you say just needs someone to sit down and show you how its done. If you don't already know, you need to figure out the note names for keyboards.

You're basically looking for the note that fits the piece the best (just play around until you get it). That's what the key will be named after, then figure out whether its major or minor (90% of EDM is minor, but don't assume that all your tunes are!).

yeah, i know that's how it's supposed to be done, but they all sound like shit to me! dunno what i should really listen to there, but i hope i'll get it after my friend sits down with me and tells me what to really listen to.

Posted by est on Mar-16-2006 18:38:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
yeah, i know that's how it's supposed to be done, but they all sound like shit to me! dunno what i should really listen to there, but i hope i'll get it after my friend sits down with me and tells me what to really listen to.

It will often be the note that the bassline is on (if it moves around then its generally the one that hits on the first beat of the bar). Not always though! I honestly don't think I'm a very good person to explain this though, as it comes naturally to me and i can't remember a point in my life when I didn't know how to key a tune!

Posted by skot_e on Mar-16-2006 22:47:

I only recently (3/4 weeks ago) started to do my tracks, and at first I found it really dificult to hear what I was supposed to, it took me many attempts to get each tune, playing it over and over, but as I went on I found it much easier and have now done 75% of my tracks. I am now at a point where I can hear approx what key it is in and use that as a starting point.
It is probably not going to help you me saying that, but if you keep plugging away at it, you'll begin to get a grasp of what to do. At first it was driving me nuts, but now I'm good. (except for the occasional track).
I'm not sure it will help you if someone shows you as someone tried to show me, I had to get my head around it myself.
In terms of an instrument, if you have a sequencer and a softsynth, you could make up a little sequence that you can play notes from, then transpose it up the scale. A bit fiddly though. Much easier with a keybord of some sort (midi keyboard to control soft synth - or just plain hardware instrument)

Posted by Pinokio on Mar-17-2006 00:50:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
can anyone recommend me any good free software synths to help me key my tracks? thanks.

Go to this website http://www.djprince.no/ and at the right you will find a folder that says DJ Software.
There you can download a software that i's called Zonamix.

It is not exactly aPiano, it's just a board that have the Keys on it, so you just lcik the keys and you hear their sound.

I do this to key my tracks (I started about 1 or 2 months ago), some tracks I can get them keys in 10 seconds, some tracks take me minutes, and some tracks take me days, but almost All of them I can key them.

I also use Mixmeister and [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Mixmeister is a software for Djing that can calculate the Key of a track, although this is not 100 %, So I just use it as reference.
for exampel if it tells that some song it's in Am, Iw ill go to the ZONAMIx software, and play the Am , to see if it match witht he track.
I never get them keyed based on what the software says, you always have to check.
in Mixshare.com, there is people that key their songs, and add them to a database, so you can take this as reference also.
I also add my songs to the mixmeister databse, that way I have a record of what are the key of my songs, in case they got lost, at least I don't have to key them again.

For me it's bene working great.

just sit down and play with it.

They ZONAMIZ have 24 Keys, at the left you see the Major KLeys, and at the right are th eminor Keys.

as Electronic music it's over 90% in Minor Keys, I always try to find the key first on the minor keys, if nothign really sounds good to me then I try to play the major keys.

Also when Keying, I use the Camelot Easymix system, and when I find a key, I play the Relative Major, and the Perfect 4th and perfect 5th. They all have to sound good.

to find the perfect 4th and perfecht fifth ont he Zonamix is very easy, you just need to count 5 steps down and you get the perfect 4th, and if you count 7 steps down, you will get the Perfect 5th.

That's how it works for me so far.

Hope this helps you
Thanks.

Posted by skip on Mar-17-2006 05:55:

thanks everyone! i know what i'm supposed to do, but i'm just not able to do it (yet at least).
and i'll look into those programs Pinokio, thanks.

Posted by Pinokio on Mar-18-2006 19:48:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
thanks everyone! i know what i'm supposed to do, but i'm just not able to do it (yet at least).
and i'll look into those programs Pinokio, thanks.

Good Luck =)

Posted by henryv on Mar-29-2006 07:46:

New Keys

Mylo - in my arms (Tocadiscos zwischen den stuehlen mix)
Alex Stealthy - Able to forget (Original Mix)
Marcel Woods - Advanced (Original Mix)
Deep Voices - Alone Again (Dv Remix)
Above & Beyond - Alone Tonight (Ronski Speed Radio Edit)
AM - Arise (Hammer & Funabashi Remix)
Andain - Beautiful Things (Shane 54 Mix)
Fire and Ice - Beyond My Control (Vocal Mix)
Dace Mccullen - Bitch (Club Extended)
Yves Deruyter - Born Slippy
tomcraft - Brainwashed
Mode Hookers - Breathe (Original Mix)
M.I.D.O.R. vs. Linn - Breathing (Progressive Mix)
HKN - Cantus (Original Mix)
Jonas Steur - Castamara
Airbase - Chamberlain (Original Mix)
BK & Yomanda - Charming (Bks Day trip to the dam mix)
Out now - Children (Deepbas Mix)
CJ Stone Feat Tamara Rhodes - City Lights (B2 Jean Elan Remix)
Yet Yauer - Crazy (Original Club Mix)
Scott Mac - Damager 02 (Mac Zimms Remix)
Filo & Peri - Dance with A Devil (Serge Devant Remix)
Above & Beyond - Cant Sleep
Forbes & Lee - Darkk Slugger
Ruff Driverz Presents Arrola - Dreaming (Tom Hafman Mix)
Ronski Speed with Stoneface & Terminal - Incognition
Ronski Speed with Stoneface & Terminal - Sunlight (Dub Mix)
C-Quence - Endorphine (Arizona Remix)
Airbase - Escape
Skin - Faithfulness (DJ Tiesto Remix)
Motel - Feel the Rhythm
Mike Shiver - Feelings (Leon Bolier Mix)
Ralphie B And Sander Van Dien - First State
First State - Sacred
Markus Schulz Feat. Anita Kelsey - First Time
DJ Tiesto - Flight 643 (Jaimy And Kenny D)
DJ Tiesto - Flight 643 (Orignal Mix)
Estuera - Flow
Mr Sam Feat Crash Course In Science - Flying Around (Mojado Vision)
Paul Van Dyk - For and Angel
Airbase - For the Fallen
Mr. Sam vs. Fred Baker - Forever Waiting (Orignal Mix)

Can any of you please find the keys for these?

Thanks HenryV

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