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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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quote:

Originally posted by Freak Random ramblings time..... TBH I have my cdjs.....I also have a 100Mbps broadband connection, but im still buying more vinyl than ever. Just placed an order for 5 double/triple Lps a couple of mins ago actually. I find beatport annoying with their selection. Im very eclectic- and hop genres a lot to mix and match. They 99% of the time dont have what im after. yet i can go online or to record stores and have the 12" on my doorstep within 24 hours. Same with other sites. As much as a bonus 'free' downloadable cd sticker/sleeve moistens my pants, its still boring. Cost is not so important. I dont and never have based my enjoyment of something on its cost. The satisfaction of downloading a track vs biying a record is comparable to having a wank vs having sex.....both good and both give satisfaction, but one leaves you feeling kind of empty and perhaps thinking 'is that it?' Thats my personal take on it. Buying a cd is nice- but downloading/burning one just honestly bores me to shit.I also find i listen to them and they sound....well...a bit lifeless. Another big thing is I simply cannot be arsed to go through the hassle of transferring stuff from vinyl to cd. Bores me like watching paint evolve and is so time consuming. Time that could be used productively. I guess its the collector in me showing through- im more than a dj. Truth be told, 99% of the records i buy i never play out- they are bought for my enjoyment and collectability. Thats something digital can never replace. I just like the physical product, the artwork and the hands on feel. Plus- in the event of nuclear armageddon, I will still be able to play my vinyl......even on an old wind up gramaphone or similar home made contraption salvaged from the burng ashes of civilization. cd players, pcs and the majority of electrical equipment wont work due to the EMP I may have radiation poisoning and no hair, but at least I will be able to slip on some LPS for background music. Or dj at the radioactive mutants rave. Morbid/luddite food for thought

Great post

can someone please explain to me in detail the difference between wav and mp3 when downloading choons, thanks

quote:

Originally posted by starboy can someone please explain to me in detail the difference between wav and mp3 when downloading choons, thanks

I am very bored so I will.
Here is how cd works:

Cd is not continious sound. Its frames of sound next to each other.
Imagine it as a cartoon that is made up of pictures.
These pictures use binary code to express amplitude, frequency ect..
So you get 44.100 little samples every second that are next to each other.
We need 44.100 because we as humans at best can hear up to 20.000 hz.
To express 20 k you need 40 k samples.
Why it's up to 44.1 is a math thing
Between those samples there is nothing.
But because there are so many our ears perceive it as continious sound

Evey little sample has 16 bits that are either 1 (voltage) or 0 (no fucking voltage)
Here is a random example of one little sample :
0 ---------------------------0
1 -------------------------- 1
1 -------------------------- 0
0 8 bits --------------------1
1 -------------------------- 1
0 ---------------------------0
1 -------------------------- 1
1 ---------------------------1
-----+--(here there is nothing
0 -------untill the other.----1
1 --------little sample!-----1
1 --------------------------- 0
1 ----------------------------1
1 8 bits ---------------------1
1---------------------------- 0
1---------------------------- 1
1---------------------------- 1

= 16 bits 44.100 time every second

Now if you multiply 16 bits X 44.100 X 2 (because you are listening in stereo) you get = 1411.2 kbit/s for a cd (wave/aiff).



Now with mp3 the Bitrate is limited to a maximum of 320 kbit/sTime resolution you get shitty trancient responce and there is no scale factor band for frequencies above 15.5/15.8 kHz.
Get mp3s as long as they are free. Free always sounds better
If you are paying for the shit get wave.
---------------
Vinyl pressed off digital audio at 24 bit 96k
4608 kbits per second but also noise

cd quality
1411.2kbits per second but very quiet

mp3

320 kbits/s (4 to 1 compression) but free
256 kbits/s(6 to 1 )
192 kbts/s (6 to 1 )
128 kbits/s (10 to 1)

Hope this helps

^ My eyes does wav change pitch at all like when ripping vinyl to cd it tends to be a little faster towards the end of a track.. noob Q i know but answer!! thanks

quote:

Originally posted by starboy ^ My eyes does wav change pitch at all like when ripping vinyl to cd it tends to be a little faster towards the end of a track.. noob Q i know but answer!! thanks

No it doesn't. Unless it was ripped on vinyl.
If it's off the master it will not.
It will just be a more accurate representation of what the artist wanted it to sound like in the studio.
For example if this pic of oakey , staring away from the camera, is a wave file


This would be the mp3 version of it:

Thanks, i will turn to TA instead of friends for advise in the future

quote:

Originally posted by harriz No it doesn't. Unless it was ripped on vinyl. If it's off the master it will not. It will just be a more accurate representation of what the artist wanted it to sound like in the studio. For example if this pic of oakey , staring away from the camera, is a wave file This would be the mp3 version of it:

Very nice example!

That's a really good example of how digital will degrade the more you compress it.

I think it would also be fair to say that the CD vs Vinyl discussion is pretty much dead.
Nobody really cares anymore and the few that do seem to base it on what you could say backward arguements.

It seems that the discussion is still very much alive when it comes to Vinyl and CD vs mp3.

It's also an interesting theory that suggests you may actually get a split in the dance culture itself where you get the Ableton performers branching off and doing their own thing.

It's also stated that every 20 years or so you get the next big thing. Based on this you can ask yourself if Ableton is it? To be fair it has the potential as it's a great tool and the boundries could be pushed further in the hands of a musician as soon as we break out of the existing mould that dance music has had for nearly 20 years.

On the downside, we live in a very media orientated world and are spoon fed disposable music that the industry feels safe to sell to us. With the internet the choice of small genres also limits the mass appeal of something unless it's earthshattering...

The bottom line is that we need to change the world with something. It's all out there... so what are you going to do?

Cheers
Nem

can you rename the post so its vinyl vs cd vs laptops ?

I perfer Vinyl. It sounds better, and I have turntables.

I perfer Vinyl. It sounds better, and I have turntables.

So do mail order houses!
We just dropped 70 copies to juno.co.uk of our recent releases and DJMR.com also picked up a bunch.

See the thing is just this, debate it all you want. People say digital is the way to go foward but the numbers just don't add up to world wide domination.

We have delt with juno.co.uk (great record store btw go there for good tunes across the board) for a few years now, and a single order was never this big. We do restocks and new releases with them when they need them and when we have them, but not like this. We don't have EU distribution for our records so what I am saying here is it's not exactly cheap for them to order from a label direct but its happening more and more after the big fall out from the progressive "thang" that happened a few years back when really.. nothing was progressing anywhere, and a lot of distributors made terrible choices on their record purchases and the stores got fed up.
So my point is I think that a lot of stores are going label direct and cutting out the middle man and indeed that does another thing thats good for vinyl. It reduces the price. We just dropped our prices because of the simple fact that the exchange rate between the canadian and US dollar is so small now compared to a year ago even, that it just makes our bottom line on each release less of an issue. The materials are cheaper for our canadian plant to buy and thus our unit costs went down (.XX per copy which is a lot) and cutting the records in the US plus the platting is now much easier to swallow, as their rates haven't changed but the canadian dollar has gone up so we don't bit it so hard on the exchange rate for those vital services in the steps to make a record.
So instead of our records being 10 bucks on our site US, they are now 6.99 US which is perfect. Trick is of course some stores around here still think 14.99 or even 17.99 is a fair price for a record. Thats bogus. Reality is in canada no record, even if imported direct from outside the country or continent should be more than 14.00 flat. One store, www.remixrecords.ca

sorry but im a vnyil head till i die and i will never be caught dead cd djing

NOT to mention that cd djs if they trainwreck they can sample an effect and tweak it to cover the fact they screwed up while with vynil youll just have to suffer the consequences and a couple of BOOOOOOOS

besides you aint willing to master the orgins of records then you simply a playback dj

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 sorry but im a vnyil head till i die and i will never be caught dead cd djing NOT to mention that cd djs if they trainwreck they can sample an effect and tweak it to cover the fact they screwed up while with vynil youll just have to suffer the consequences and a couple of BOOOOOOOS besides you aint willing to master the orgins of records then you simply a playback dj

fuck I love ignorant people who don't have a clue what they're on about... it's always good for a laugh...

quote:

Originally posted by AngusG fuck I love ignorant people who don't have a clue what they're on about... it's always good for a laugh...

hey ive been in the dj scene alot longer than you have ive seen countless djs spin live and have spoke to numerous ones about cds vs vnyil

and all of them have told me vnyil is profesional


and plus me being a dj and producer myself i do know what im talkin about so theres no use arguing

maybe when you grow up someday youll understand that vnyil will never be replaced by cds

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 hey ive been in the dj scene alot longer than you have ive seen countless djs spin live and have spoke to numerous ones about cds vs vnyil and all of them have told me vnyil is profesional and plus me being a dj and producer myself i do know what im talkin about so theres no use arguing maybe when you grow up someday youll understand that vnyil will never be replaced by cds

U speak and spell engrish real good...

There's nothing wrong with having a preference... but you've got to face the fact: At the end of the day that's your preference and nobody else's...

IF vinyl's (yes, it is spelt vinyl) that great, why are so many internationally famous DJ's spinning only from CD, and DJ's like Sasha and Gabriel and Dresden ditching CD's and playing off Ableton??

and why others like M.I.K.E, John O'Callaghan and John 00 Flemming have been pushing CDJ1000's as one of the greatest innovations in recent times.

I too have been in the music industry (as a musician, sound guy, lighting guy, roadie and these days as a DJ AND producer) all my life so don't preach to the choir...

Learn some basic literacy skills before you expect people to take you seriously.

dont worry about my literacy as long as you know what im talkin about thats all that matters

Besides I would've thought that being a producer, finishing a track that day and being able to play it out that night would've been a huge benefit to playing CD's...

thats about it other than that forget it

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium So do mail order houses! We just dropped 70 copies to juno.co.uk of our recent releases and DJMR.com also picked up a bunch. See the thing is just this, debate it all you want. People say digital is the way to go foward but the numbers just don't add up to world wide domination. We have delt with juno.co.uk (great record store btw go there for good tunes across the board) for a few years now, and a single order was never this big. We do restocks and new releases with them when they need them and when we have them, but not like this. We don't have EU distribution for our records so what I am saying here is it's not exactly cheap for them to order from a label direct but its happening more and more after the big fall out from the progressive "thang" that happened a few years back when really.. nothing was progressing anywhere, and a lot of distributors made terrible choices on their record purchases and the stores got fed up. So my point is I think that a lot of stores are going label direct and cutting out the middle man and indeed that does another thing thats good for vinyl. It reduces the price. We just dropped our prices because of the simple fact that the exchange rate between the canadian and US dollar is so small now compared to a year ago even, that it just makes our bottom line on each release less of an issue. The materials are cheaper for our canadian plant to buy and thus our unit costs went down (.XX per copy which is a lot) and cutting the records in the US plus the platting is now much easier to swallow, as their rates haven't changed but the canadian dollar has gone up so we don't bit it so hard on the exchange rate for those vital services in the steps to make a record. So instead of our records being 10 bucks on our site US, they are now 6.99 US which is perfect. Trick is of course some stores around here still think 14.99 or even 17.99 is a fair price for a record. Thats bogus. Reality is in canada no record, even if imported direct from outside the country or continent should be more than 14.00 flat. One store, www.remixrecords.ca

In answer to your previous question before the edit... CD's obviously have perfect wow & flutter... vinyl no matter how well it's pressed/good a turntable you have probably won't... it can be close... but it's probably not perfect... I've found that and people have agreed that the record tends to speed up towards the end... not noticeably or considerably, but this is where the wow and flutter is at it's worst...

dance while the record spins

For me it's vinyl
And that has to do with the availability of the music.
I just can't get the music I want on cd...

quote:

Originally posted by Existo22 For me it's vinyl And that has to do with the availability of the music. I just can't get the music I want on cd...

yes i mean some music you will never find on cd ever but lets face it the true art of djing started with turn tables its a never ending tradition

plus it feels good knowing your in control of your mix and being able to feel the vynil as well as the groove

"Sounding Off: Why vinyl can't survive":

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature_view.asp?ID=755

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann "Sounding Off: Why vinyl can't survive": http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature_view.asp?ID=755

I had a nice little rebuttal typed out but then noticed next week's sounding off column is "why vinyl will survive", so I'll wait before I make any judgements.

I will say though that there are some valid points in there, but it still is mostly a biased rant about how vinyls essentially "suck" and how cd's/mp3's are so great. I guess that might have been the intent, but some of it seems blatently unwarranted too which I don't agree with. Contrary to what many seem to believe nowadays, cd's and mp3's both do have their disadvantages as well, even though that fact was totally ignored by the author. Hopefully he'll touch on that in the next write-up, because you can't talk about the good things without at least mentioning the bad, and vise versa for the other object being compared.

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