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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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I agree, it was a good article.
Not entirely accurate on all counts however.

Having read the snobbery in the thread that followed some guys there do look down on the clubbers a little and actually don't give them enough credit in terms of recognising sound quality. People are also desperately unaware (excuse the punn) of the subconcious effects that sound quality has on people.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 dont worry about my literacy as long as you know what im talkin about thats all that matters

Few people are going to take you seriously when you speak like a 15 year old on AOL. It just makes you look ignorant--which is, unfortunately, what most of your arguments are.

quote:

NOT to mention that cd djs if they trainwreck they can sample an effect and tweak it to cover the fact they screwed up while with vynil youll just have to suffer the consequences and a couple of BOOOOOOOS

Really? Because I'm not aware of any respectable CD turntable that has built in effects, particularly those capable of "covering" a trainwreck. Perhaps you're thinking of a mixer like the DJM-600, or some external effect units? In that case, a vinyl DJ is just as capable of "tweaking it" to cover his mistake--as if that would even work (it won't). A trainwreck is a trainwreck, there is no difference whether it's happening on vinyl or CDs. In fact, this whole argument of yours makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So let's move on...

quote:

hey ive been in the dj scene alot longer than you have ive seen countless djs spin live and have spoke to numerous ones about cds vs vnyil and all of them have told me vnyil is profesional

Actually, more and more established DJs are switching to digital these days, CD in particular. Carl Cox, for instance, does not take vinyl with him to his gigs any more. He only uses CDs. Are you really going to try and tell Carl Cox that he's not being professional because he's using 4.5" ceramic discs to play music instead of 12" wax ones? He'd probably just laugh and go back to rocking the crowd. And don't believe for a second that Carl is in the minority, either. There are countless DJs who feel the same way. Since I have other things to do today, I'll let you discover this on your own time. I think this one example more than proves the point.

quote:

besides you aint willing to master the orgins of records then you simply a playback dj

What exactly is a "playback dj?" Is it anything like that Gwen Stefani song? "'CAUSE I AIN'T NO PLAYBACK DJJJJJJJ!" Man, I fucking hate that song. But anyways, I see what you're trying to say: you're not really a DJ if you aren't capable of mixing vinyl, since vinyl records are where our roots lie. But what ignornant luddites such as yourself don't seem to understand is that the true purpose of a DJ is to rock the crowd. Imagine if you attended a party where the DJ booth was out of sight, or behind a curtain. Would you be able to tell whether the DJ was playing from records, CDs, or a laptop? Yes, a trained ear might be able to pick up a pitch bend or some crackles coming from a vinyl record, but this is ultimately irrelevant. The music would be indistinguishable, and more importantly: the crowd wouldn't care. Do you think that someone coming to a club/rave really gives a flying fuck what format the music is coming from? No, they just want to dance and have fun. I'm sure that you or someone else may be tempted to try and refute this by saying "well in that case, we could just play a CD on the club's soundsystem and be done with it!" No. A good DJ takes a substantial collection of music with him and selects which record to play at exactly the right moment. THIS is the reason why we go see DJs on the weekends instead of bands, and why they get paid handsomely for the job: when a good DJ creates and builds an atmosphere, reads the crowd and judges accordingly, he will blow the roof off. Not "because he can play vinyl records."

quote:

maybe when you grow up someday youll understand that vnyil will never be replaced by cds

Or perhaps, when you grow up someday, you'll understand why there's absolutely nothing wrong with CDs and other digital formats. Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl too. It has its advantages and disadvantages just like every other format. But like I said, it's not the medium that counts, only the music.

quote:

me being a dj and producer myself i do know what im talkin about so theres no use arguing

O rly? Because I think that 99% of the people in this corner of the TA forums are DJs too, and I'm sure most of them also produce. Fancy that! What exactly makes their opinions any less relevant? Oh, shit... my bad. I forgot that DJ KING#1 is world's the undisputed authority on DJing (*cough*). Actually, I happen to agree. There is no use arguning, because I just proved your luddite arguments to be ignorant and groundless. And if you don't want to believe me, maybe you'll believe someone like Carl Cox, or James Zabiela, or John Fleming, or Luke Fair, or Desyn Masiello, or Danny Tenaglia, or Sasha, or Digweed, or Sander Kleinenberg, or........

You lose. Good day sir.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 hey ive been in the dj scene alot longer than you have ive seen countless djs spin live and have spoke to numerous ones about cds vs vnyil and all of them have told me vnyil is profesional and plus me being a dj and producer myself i do know what im talkin about so theres no use arguing maybe when you grow up someday youll understand that vnyil will never be replaced by cds

Interesting... and I thought I was proffessional, damn just realised that I'm not because I use CDs....

Here's a thought... Would I be considered proffessional if I blow the roof of a place night after night for 22 years?
Produce tracks and even have a remix that is getting plays from major names in Europe (You know the place where most of the pro's come from (not disrespecting transatlantic pros))

Ofcourse you know what you are talking about so I'm not going to argue. I'll just carry on with what I'm doing and you stick to your credible scene.

Does it really matter as long as the party goes off?

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Does it really matter as long as the party goes off?

See my post above yours.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

u guys are ubelievabele, still debating on vinyls vs cds.
vinyl is dead and so are cds for that matter.
Now is the turn of pure digital (software) of course controlled by hardware mixers.. stop bitching. so whatif u are "professional dj" cause u spin on vinyl if ure playing in shithole places. go to a major event and see all ur profesionals using ableton live on their laptops, playing with a tiny thing full of knobs and sliders u dont know what the ffkkk they do. stay in the past. "professional cause i use vinyl" hahahahahaahahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaa....

you guys make me laugh with that digital bullshit but to each his own last i checked i was the dj not the laptop

quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer Few people are going to take you seriously when you speak like a 15 year old on AOL. It just makes you look ignorant--which is, unfortunately, what most of your arguments are. Really? Because I'm not aware of any respectable CD turntable that has built in effects, particularly those capable of "covering" a trainwreck. Perhaps you're thinking of a mixer like the DJM-600, or some external effect units? In that case, a vinyl DJ is just as capable of "tweaking it" to cover his mistake--as if that would even work (it won't). A trainwreck is a trainwreck, there is no difference whether it's happening on vinyl or CDs. In fact, this whole argument of yours makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So let's move on... Actually, more and more established DJs are switching to digital these days, CD in particular. Carl Cox, for instance, does not take vinyl with him to his gigs any more. He only uses CDs. Are you really going to try and tell Carl Cox that he's not being professional because he's using 4.5" ceramic discs to play music instead of 12" wax ones? He'd probably just laugh and go back to rocking the crowd. And don't believe for a second that Carl is in the minority, either. There are countless DJs who feel the same way. Since I have other things to do today, I'll let you discover this on your own time. I think this one example more than proves the point. What exactly is a "playback dj?" Is it anything like that Gwen Stefani song? "'CAUSE I AIN'T NO PLAYBACK DJJJJJJJ!" Man, I fucking hate that song. But anyways, I see what you're trying to say: you're not really a DJ if you aren't capable of mixing vinyl, since vinyl records are where our roots lie. But what ignornant luddites such as yourself don't seem to understand is that the true purpose of a DJ is to rock the crowd. Imagine if you attended a party where the DJ booth was out of sight, or behind a curtain. Would you be able to tell whether the DJ was playing from records, CDs, or a laptop? Yes, a trained ear might be able to pick up a pitch bend or some crackles coming from a vinyl record, but this is ultimately irrelevant. The music would be indistinguishable, and more importantly: the crowd wouldn't care. Do you think that someone coming to a club/rave really gives a flying fuck what format the music is coming from? No, they just want to dance and have fun. I'm sure that you or someone else may be tempted to try and refute this by saying "well in that case, we could just play a CD on the club's soundsystem and be done with it!" No. A good DJ takes a substantial collection of music with him and selects which record to play at exactly the right moment. THIS is the reason why we go see DJs on the weekends instead of bands, and why they get paid handsomely for the job: when a good DJ creates and builds an atmosphere, reads the crowd and judges accordingly, he will blow the roof off. Not "because he can play vinyl records." Or perhaps, when you grow up someday, you'll understand why there's absolutely nothing wrong with CDs and other digital formats. Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl too. It has its advantages and disadvantages just like every other format. But like I said, it's not the medium that counts, only the music. O rly? Because I think that 99% of the people in this corner of the TA forums are DJs too, and I'm sure most of them also produce. Fancy that! What exactly makes their opinions any less relevant? Oh, shit... my bad. I forgot that DJ KING#1 is world's the undisputed authority on DJing (*cough*). Actually, I happen to agree. There is no use arguning, because I just proved your luddite arguments to be ignorant and groundless. And if you don't want to believe me, maybe you'll believe someone like Carl Cox, or James Zabiela, or John Fleming, or Luke Fair, or Desyn Masiello, or Danny Tenaglia, or Sasha, or Digweed, or Sander Kleinenberg, or........ You lose. Good day sir.

hahaha nice try but you didnt even burn me on that one if you were to actually see them in the studio they use nothing but vynil only reason why most of them would even consider cds is to play there own stuff but i will just leave it at that and this thread alone



so sorry but your the one that lost and good day

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 hahaha nice try but you didnt even burn me on that one if you were to actually see them in the studio they use nothing but vynil only reason why most of them would even consider cds is to play there own stuff but i will just leave it at that and this thread alone

Actually, you're wrong.

Here's one example: I saw Luke Fair a few weeks ago. It was a very relaxed party, the DJ booth was nothing more than a table against a small balcony, so anyone could walk right up to the decks and watch him work.

There were no vinyl turntables on the DJ booth at all. Just 2 CDJ-1000s, a CDJ-800, and a Xone 62. The warmup DJ played his set entirely from CDs. Luke Fair played his set entirely from CDs too. Are you going to try and tell me that Luke was only using CDs to play his own tracks?

quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer Actually, you're wrong. Here's one example: I saw Luke Fair a few weeks ago. It was a very relaxed party, the DJ booth was nothing more than a table against a small balcony, so anyone could walk right up to the decks and watch him work. There were no vinyl turntables on the DJ booth at all. Just 2 CDJ-1000s, a CDJ-800, and a Xone 62. The warmup DJ played his set entirely from CDs. Luke Fair played his set entirely from CDs too. Are you going to try and tell me that Luke was only using CDs to play his own tracks?

Seriously, he's probably not worth the effort. If he/she feels the need to say these things it's probably because it's someone who isn't actually involved in any scene anywhere and probably knows a few local DJs if that.

Some people just like logging onto forums to start flame wars.

There is no substance behind this guys posts... ignore it. Let them think what they want.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Cheers Nem

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by harriz Cheers Nem

Well put.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 hahaha nice try but you didnt even burn me on that one if you were to actually see them in the studio they use nothing but vynil only reason why most of them would even consider cds is to play there own stuff but i will just leave it at that and this thread alone so sorry but your the one that lost and good day

Your lack of knowledge is highlighted by your inability to even spell the subject for which you argue the case.

Vinyl. Write it out 100 times kiddy.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KING#1 hahaha nice try but you didnt even burn me on that one if you were to actually see them in the studio they use nothing but vynil only reason why most of them would even consider cds is to play there own stuff but i will just leave it at that and this thread alone so sorry but your the one that lost and good day

Your lack of knowledge is highlighted by your inability to even spell the subject for which you argue the case.

Vinyl. Write it out 100 times kiddy.

I think its safe to say, now in 2006, that the industry standard is CDs not vinyl or laptops.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth I think its safe to say, now in 2006, that the industry standard is CDs not vinyl or laptops.

There is no industry standard of the format... it's all about preference :slap:

I love vinyl to death but I can see that from a labels point of view $30 a piece for promos is truly expensive for no real reason at all.
The industry has shifted to digital because the labels can do with out this expence.
A lot of well respected djs still spin wax though because they are not just spinning what gets send to them but instead they go out and buy the records.
These djs are not in the ''top djs'' list

definitly vinyl and occasionally Traktor DJ studio just to keep up with the newest technics(using laptop and etc)

peace out!

I was listening to vinyl the other day I suddenly recalled what another DJ had said about vinyl - it had a much warmer feel to it. I think this is true, but after you get accustomed to listening to WAV and MP3s you sort of forget about it and then it doesn't become a deal anymore. But when you go back to listening to vinyl and you listen for the warmth the vinyl may not sound as clean, but it'll have a warmer feel to it.

Regardless of where DJing started, paying reverence to the old ways doesn't necessarily mean having to use them. As in the case of videogames, the NES had some amazing games on it and people can respect and recognize that without having to actually replay them. Have you ever started a fire with two sticks? I sure haven't, but I still can recognize and respect that particular way of creating a fire. I use lighters as they are easier to use, but this doesn't imply a view point of looking down on making a fire with two sticks. In the case with DJing, a DJ may use newer methods of DJing while still respecting the old fashioned ways.

From a purely artistic standpoint, I see vinyl as a restrictive medium that can't be manipulated as greatly as MP3s can. What I've always wanted to see with regards to MP3 releases was to not only see whole tracks, but the acapella's, main pads, and beats and percussion releases so that DJ's could create new remixes on the fly. With a program like Ableton I could see that happening more easily than with turntables and vinyl. Maybe my creative vision is severely limited and you could tell me where you think vinyl will go or has been, but as I think now the medium of MP3s seem to suit both the record companies and DJs for their exploration of new heights of creativity.

These are my perceptions on the subject.

I think its clear that if you have no interest in hardcore turntablism that using electronic means to mix your music eliminates alot of the tedium when mixing tracks and frees you to be creative.

Thats not to say you can't be creative with Vinyl, but if you're spinning trance youre going to have to ride the pitch and that means less time to screw around with looping/efx/filters.

I personally bought turntables because I want to be able to cut and scratch while still making use of ableton for a back beat an looping my cutting. Prolly could have done the same with CDJs, but I'm also into collecting vinyl now.

This debate seems to have settled a bit as both mediums have retired to their realms of influence.

For listening and DJing, I would go with CD, in all honesty. New technologies were always regarded with contempt early on, and eventually they were adapted by everyone. CDs are cheaper, smaller, and offer as good sound quality IMO (minus clicking and all that).

You cant beat the sound and feel of vynal.

To be honest i prefer both methods. Yes you have those idiot DJs that pay no dues and will bring a book full of downloaded MP3's to a show.

Then again now a days with Serato and all them how many vynal DJs do you see show up with a few crates to a gig instead of a hard drive?

It is to each their own. So long as the person cares for the craft what the hell does it matter which way they go when it comes to Vynal or CD? There are CDs that are just as hard to find as some vynals. Not that many but there are several that require months of searching to find.

just got me some sl1200s
vinyl ftw!

quote:

Originally posted by Imagin You cant beat the sound and feel of vynal. To be honest i prefer both methods. Yes you have those idiot DJs that pay no dues and will bring a book full of downloaded MP3's to a show. Then again now a days with Serato and all them how many vynal DJs do you see show up with a few crates to a gig instead of a hard drive? It is to each their own. So long as the person cares for the craft what the hell does it matter which way they go when it comes to Vynal or CD? There are CDs that are just as hard to find as some vynals. Not that many but there are several that require months of searching to find.

I love me somy VYNAL. You've got some care for the craft there sonny boy.

so my spelling sucks sometimes.

Did you get the point of what i was saying?? There you go. Next time just for you ill spell check so that you dont have to waste your time to make sure I know i didnt spell something right

quote:

Originally posted by Imagin so my spelling sucks sometimes. Did you get the point of what i was saying?? There you go. Next time just for you ill spell check so that you dont have to waste your time to make sure I know i didnt spell something right

Hey Imagin - A bad time to point out that Imagin is spelt with an "e"?

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