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I doubt Iran will do anything they know if they do anything that gives U.S the perfect chance to get all the powers in the world to go against it saying " OOOOhhh look Israel is in danger now " the same way they did with Iraq.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a smart dood he's playing his cards properly.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced the people do have a voice if they truly want peace...they would demand their side find a way to have peace...even if it means not getting what they want...the problem is neither side wants to even give an inch.

why are you putting the onus on the palestinian people..? do you have a solid understanding of what these people have gone through...do you believe that they are empowered? they have been occupied and have limited access to every single thing that you and i take for granted..it's difficult for people to demand and make change when they are unemployed with no prospects, living in poverty, hungry..etc...on top of that they live with violence all around them....hamas gained the support of people by establishing hospitals..schools..social programs..libraries..etc....you expect these people to have the strength to start some sort of social movement to oust hamas when they have to worry about dying from a lack of medial care and starvation?

i dunno how many times i need to say that people seriously need to research some cold hard facts...

i think your problem is that you see both sides as equal....things are far from equal....actually things are as lopsided as the death toll in this current conflict...

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Originally posted by UmmiE The day all the muslims in the world unite that when there are chances of something big and bad happening as big of a scale of WW3 lucky for places like Israel, they have there difference and the biggest muslim country Saudi Arabia (puppets) are pussies.

money talks.....human life is nothing to the money hungry fucktards of saudi arabia...they don't give a shit...

see, i'm a muslim and i'm actually disagreeing with the actions of a muslim government..

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Originally posted by gummybear why are you putting the onus on the palestinian people..? do you have a solid understanding of what these people have gone through...do you believe that they are empowered? they have been occupied and have limited access to every single thing that you and i take for granted..it's difficult for people to demand and make change when they are unemployed with no prospects, living in poverty, hungry..etc...on top of that they live with violence all around them....hamas gained the support of people by establishing hospitals..schools..social programs..libraries..etc....you expect these people to have the strength to start some sort of social movement to oust hamas when they have to worry about dying from a lack of medial care and starvation? i dunno how many times i need to say that people seriously need to research some cold hard facts... i think your problem is that you see both sides as equal....things are far from equal....actually things are as lopsided as the death toll in this current conflict...

It doesn't matter which side it is.....if they truly want peace then they can have it...it just means they may have to give a little more then they take. Once they are ready to talk then peacekeepers and peace negotiators can be brought in.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced It doesn't matter which side it is.....if they truly want peace then they can have it...it just means they may have to give a little more then they take. Once they are ready to talk then peacekeepers and peace negotiators can be brought in.

lol Its way more complicated than that.

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Originally posted by T_ALI lol Its way more complicated than that.

only because they are not ready for peace yet

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty arab countries(iran)

We are not Arabs.People need to learn more about Iran ffs.

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Originally posted by tatgirl But the Twin Towers was no war, Fahad. That was a blatant terrorist attack. It started a war, though.

it's a matter of perspective, nat, i'm sorry but israel's recent "mistakes" on the UN and BBC are no less a terrorist attack than the twin tower attacks in my mind. and to the terrorists, they believed they were engaged in war, just like what Israel believes right now. but it's no war, the whole world knows that Israel has all the fire power while the hamas (who should all die, really) are trying to hold up a candle. same way in their perverted minds the 9/11 terrorists believed that the western commerce system was the root of their wealth and power so the innocent civilians were actually engaged in a war. totally fucked up but that's exactly how i view Israel's current actions. Stupid assholes couldn't let Rabin live.

edit:
nat, i believe ur definition of war is when a "nation" recognized under international law engages in it. that's a load of shit. just because israel has it's parcel of land recognized by the UN resolution (ironically the same UN they just attacked LOL) makes its attacks justifiable under war? FUCKING HORSE SHIT.

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Originally posted by geroin if anyone touches iran russia will get involved, ww3.

it'll get nucular

-dubya

Israeli leaders were preparing to order a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, possibly as early as Saturday evening, political sources said.


They may declare a halt to the three-week-old offensive without concluding any deal with Hamas-led militants.


More than 1,150 Palestinians have been killed and 5,000 wounded since Israel began attacking Gaza with an air blitz on December 27, then moved in with ground forces a week later.


A large majority of the dead were civilians.


Ten Israeli soldiers have died in the fighting and three Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza.


Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was due to convene his security cabinet on Saturday night to decide on a ceasefire.


Word could come less than 72 hours before the inauguration of Barack Obama as U.S. president. Some say Israel wants to avoid casting a cloud over a historic moment for its main ally.


Israeli support for the offensive has been almost total. But international calls for an end to the bloodshed are mounting and the despair of Gaza civilians is harrowing.


Israeli television on Friday broadcast desperate cries for help from a Palestinian doctor in Gaza after his children were killed in an Israeli attack.


"I want to know why they were killed, who gave the order?" gynaecologist Izz el-Deen Aboul Aishhe cried in a voice shaking with emotion.


Troops later helped the family's survivors.


NO NEED FOR DEAL?


Dismissing notions of "proportionate" response, Israel struck on December 27 with a "shock and awe" night of bombing and has used devastating firepower every day since to stop militants shooting rockets at border towns.


The rockets have tapered off but not ceased. On Friday at least 15 rockets and mortar shells hit Israel, wounding five.


Israeli strikes on Friday killed 30 Gazans, including an Islamic Jihad commander in southern Khan Younis. Israeli tank fire hit the home of a Hamas militant, killing his wife and five children. The militant was not there at the time.


About 45,000 Gazans fleeing the fighting have taken refuge in U.N.-run schools in the enclave, U.N. officials said.


Israeli officials said Egypt's mediation with Hamas is not progressing. But Israel may believe it has "taught Hamas a lesson," as Olmert put its aims, and prefers just to stop now

rather than give Hamas the satisfaction of a negotiated deal.

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, hoping to replace Olmert as prime minister when Israel votes on February 11, said an on Friday that an end to the war "doesn't have to be in agreement with Hamas but rather in arrangements against Hamas."

She was speaking in Washington after signing a security pact with outgoing U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice aimed at cutting off Hamas weapons supplies.

Hamas's exiled leader Khaled Meshaal called Israel's ceasefire terms unacceptable. Demanding an end to the punitive Israeli blockade of Gaza, he said Hamas would fight on.

Hamas negotiators, however, were due to meet the Egyptians on Saturday to discuss Israel's response to their conditions.

Hamas offers a one-year, renewable truce on condition that all Israeli forces withdraw within a week and that all the border crossings with Israel and Egypt are opened.

Except for limited humanitarian supplies, the crossings have been all but closed under an Israeli-led blockade since Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2007 from Palestinian factions it had defeated in a parliamentary election the previous year.

Israel will not deal directly with the Islamist movement, which is also shunned by the West for its refusal to recognize the Jewish state, renounce violence and accept past peace deals.


Source

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Originally posted by Orko It is just annoying how much sense you make sometimes.

Heh. It's funny that there were no further replies from the originators of that tangent.

---
Quality of posts in general seems to be deteriorating rapidly in here. One-liner, personal insult, paraphrasing of one-liner, factually inaccurate post, trite noncommittal response, YouTube video, skepticism about YouTube video, lather, rinse, repeat.

Seems that very few people are able to approach this subject without getting emotionally heated. I'm reading over the last two pages and less than one out of every five replies is actually a direct response in clear language; the majority just seem to restate the same premise over and over again in slightly different words, occasionally accompanied by war photos or videos as if they somehow prove a point (other than the obvious point that there is a war going on).

If those of us living here in placid Canada can't even remain civil, what chance do they have out in the middle east?

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Originally posted by fayraree ...israel's recent "mistakes" on the UN and BBC are no less a terrorist attack than the twin tower attacks in my mind.

The last decade of war in that region has seen a far lower body count than the few instants in time that the towers collapsed, and virtually all of the 9/11 deaths were civilian ones. If you are somehow able to morally equate these two in your mind, then I pity you.

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...israel has it's parcel of land recognized by the UN resolution (ironically the same UN they just attacked LOL) ...

I hate to pick on parentheticals but it is not, technically, the same UN. 60 years have passed. The membership is different, the leadership is different (in 1945 they were more or less America's bitch on account of America's huge global dominance), and UNRWA is a totally different arm of the U.N. from either the General Assembly or the Security Council (it's like equating Hollywood to Lockheed Martin - tenuous connection at best).

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Originally posted by DigiNut Heh. It's funny that there were no further replies from the originators of that tangent. --- Quality of posts in general seems to be deteriorating rapidly in here. One-liner, personal insult, paraphrasing of one-liner, factually inaccurate post, trite noncommittal response, YouTube video, skepticism about YouTube video, lather, rinse, repeat. Seems that very few people are able to approach this subject without getting emotionally heated. I'm reading over the last two pages and less than one out of every five replies is actually a direct response in clear language; the majority just seem to restate the same premise over and over again in slightly different words, occasionally accompanied by war photos or videos as if they somehow prove a point (other than the obvious point that there is a war going on). If those of us living here in placid Canada can't even remain civil, what chance do they have out in the middle east?

Once again a big fail at explaining your point I dont even know why you even try to come back and make yourself look like a person who has master's degree in Fuck all ....... The reason why you say youtube is biased because you have no explaination or counter argument of the stuff being posted here.......your own people hate your Govt for what they are doing,admit it digi stop trying to make your side look like angels.

You have not once said anything regarding your govt commiting this horrible crime against innocent people instead giving shit arguments like (its a war going on)I wish it was and your side also had lost just as many,then your inner human being would have felt how important the value of someones life is or the pain of losing someone you know or close to you.Crying about personal insults well people as blind and ignorant as you deserve every single bit of it.

Dropping bombs at innocent people is a crime taking lives that have nothing to do with anything but the only crime of being born in that area.......your govt has gotten more hate around the world in these 21 days then bush gotten in his whole term.

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Originally posted by UmmiE Once again a big fail at explaining your point I dont even know why you even try to come back and make yourself look like a person who has master's degree in Fuck all ....... The reason why you say youtube is biased because you have no explaination or counter argument of the stuff being posted here.......

The youtube videos that have been posted represent 100% dedication to the Palestinian side. In much the same way that you reject any videos that are 100% dedicated to the Israeli perspective (biased in favour of Israel), thus are your videos showcasing the Palestinian perspective (biased in favour of Palestine). There are TWO sides to the argument, and a non-biased video will contain BOTH sides. Do you not know what bias is?

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... your own people hate your Govt for what they are doing,admit it digi stop trying to make your side look like angels. You have not once said anything regarding your govt commiting this horrible crime against innocent people instead giving shit arguments like (its a war going on)I wish it was and your side also had lost just as many,then your inner human being would have felt how important the value of someones life is or the pain of losing someone you know or close to you.Crying about personal insults well people as blind and ignorant as you deserve every single bit of it. Dropping bombs at innocent people is a crime taking lives that have nothing to do with anything but the only crime of being born in that area.......your govt has gotten more hate around the world in these 21 days then bush gotten in his whole term.

Hamas drops rockets on innocent people too. Yet you dedicate 100% of your bitching towards Israel. Are Hamas no less guilty of atrocities simply because their rockets don't work as well? Whether you kill 3 people, or 1000 people, you are guilty. There's no such thing as "less guilty" or "more guilty". Both sides are in the wrong in this conflict.

Israel hammers Hamas targets ahead of truce vote
here is the source:

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/ab...el_hamas_090117

i'm totally willing for the pro israel side to post material to back up their claims..please...i would welcome it..as long as it's not a government offical or any family members...or some religious zealats...or a extremist jewish publication..

videos or the written word substantiating claims such as "everyone hates jews" are more than welcome....

you may have to do some digging....but keep trying and give us some reports...articles...etc...

i haven't seen one piece of argument substantiated by the pro israel side here..

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Originally posted by Spam The youtube videos that have been posted represent 100% dedication to the Palestinian side. In much the same way that you reject any videos that are 100% dedicated to the Israeli perspective (biased in favour of Israel), thus are your videos showcasing the Palestinian perspective (biased in favour of Palestine). There are TWO sides to the argument, and a non-biased video will contain BOTH sides. Do you not know what bias is? Hamas drops rockets on innocent people too. Yet you dedicate 100% of your bitching towards Israel. Are Hamas no less guilty of atrocities simply because their rockets don't work as well? Whether you kill 3 people, or 1000 people, you are guilty. There's no such thing as "less guilty" or "more guilty". Both sides are in the wrong in this conflict.

well your asking me If I know what the word "Bias" means LOL fuck you and fuck off with your useless spam here........Here is advice for you :- "Learn to read" because if you had any reading skills then you would have read in the previous pages I already agree with the fact that hamas is bad.......but the pro jewish side is too blind to see that nor have they once admitted to the crimes their side has done against these people there....Once again go do some ESL courses noob.

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Originally posted by UmmiE well your asking me If I know what the word "Bias" means LOL fuck you and fuck off with your useless spam here........Here is advice for you :- "Learn to read" because if you had any reading skills then you would have read in the previous pages I already agree with the fact that hamas is bad.......but the pro jewish side is too blind to see that nor have they once admitted to the crimes their side has done against these people there....Once again go do some ESL courses noob.

I didn't say that you haven't acknowledged that Hamas has done wrong. I said that you dedicate 100% of your bitching towards Israel, which is true. It usually goes something like "Ya, Hamas is bad, but Israel is MORE BAD!" Followed by two or three paragraphs blasting Israel's actions while you ignore Hamas' actions. However, you are right about most of the pro-Israeli side ignoring ISRAEL'S actions as well, you should set the example of fair-judgement that you claim you're demanding from the pro-Israeli side, and hold BOTH sides accountable in all of your continued bitching, which includes Hamas' continuing to fire rockets at Israel, when they were warned to stop, and when they know that Israel will stop their attacks as soon as Hamas stops firing rockets (which, unfortunately, can not be said of Israel stopping their attacks first, we all know Hamas will declare victory and launch even more if that happens). Hamas is now paying the consequences of their continued rocket fire during a warning period, and the Palestinian people are paying the consequences of electing an irresponsible government. Sucks to be the poor side, but life ain't fair, is it?

You DON'T know the meaning of the word 'bias', obviously, otherwise you would know that most of the pro-palestinian videos posted are exactly that, 'pro-palestinian'. If you know what 'bias' is, why continue to defend those horribly biased youtube videos?

As for your telling me to fuck off and attacking my ability to read. It's nothing more than a classic example of a case where, if one can't refute the argument, one must attack a person's grammar, spelling and reading ability. If you're going to continue to argue like a little girl about things you have no control over, please at least educate yourself on bias, and learn both sides of the story.

All valid/invalid points in this thread aside, I hope this cease-fire holds without anyone conspiring to 'surprise' the other.

Edit: Looks like it's unilateral... Why don't I like this situation?

quote:

Originally posted by Shade All valid/invalid points in this thread aside, I hope this cease-fire holds without anyone conspiring to 'surprise' the other. Still to look at what the conditions are; I really hope this means Shalit is coming home though.

it's not going to hold.

one rocket from hamas into israel and whole shitstorm starts again

cynically thinking, i think more of propaganda/brownie points exercise for israel, just to say 'we're trying to be good guys'

and i fully expect hamas to keep flinging rockets, just to piss of israel

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Originally posted by Yohan it's not going to hold. one rocket from hamas into israel and whole shitstorm starts again cynically thinking, i think more of propaganda/brownie points exercise for israel, just to say 'we're trying to be good guys' and i fully expect hamas to keep flinging rockets, just to piss of israel

Looking at details, what you're saying here looks about right. I hope you're entirely wrong, but it's more than likely you're right.

I don't like that they let up the fire without getting Shalit back, to be honest though.

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Originally posted by DigiNut [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Heh. It's funny that there were no further replies from the originators

oh digi..here you go patting yourself in the back again...i totally missed this comment...orko can blow smoke up your ass but the reason i didn't reply to your post was because i didn't see the need to argue with you....

your original comment was that you didn't believe the US helped Israel as much as pro palestinians said..and you were proven wrong...then you took a couple of days to formulate some bs argument and came back with that post...i do respect that you are very good at your style of debate...you know how to muddle the waters so to speak..you had your facts skewed and you were proven wrong..so please don't try to make the people that proved you wrong look like a bunch of retards because they chose not to get involved in another debate over a dead issue...

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Originally posted by Yohan it's not going to hold. one rocket from hamas into israel and whole shitstorm starts again cynically thinking, i think more of propaganda/brownie points exercise for israel, just to say 'we're trying to be good guys' and i fully expect hamas to keep flinging rockets, just to piss of israel

i think you're correct..they have to release the pressure at some point...but i don't believe the cease fire will last...this would be a perfect time for hamas to fucking stop launching the rockets...the only thing i worry about is..even if they do stop launching rockets... there are splinter groups that operate in the area as well...if any one of them launches anything...hamas would surely be held accountable...it seems like an impossible situation...

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00:18 Hamas official: As long as IDF on Gazan soil, we`ll continue to shoot (Channel 10)

Yup, we're done.

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