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hey i unscrewed a washer from a faucet pipe in my bathroom that once looked like an engineering iron ring ..

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Originally posted by dEsidEL hey i unscrewed a washer from a faucet pipe in my bathroom that once looked like an engineering iron ring ..

iron ring material symbolically comes from a bridge that collapsed due to poor design.. a symbol of what an engineer vows to never do again.. but then again, washers from faucet pipes could have came from that same material. If I paid $30,000+ tuition over four years for a faucet pipe washer......

Thanks for the response, Bizz

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Originally posted by Bizz Unfortunately, engineers do comprise mostly of males (although the first years that came in this year have suddenly changed that trend -- wish I was in first year).

Is it fair to assume that the same changes have happened in Waterloo?

Engineers talk a lot about marks... but are the grades you get really important though?

This may sound like a really dumb question, but what do you actually learn? (But first, what year are you in?) Are you building hardware? Doing some work with photonics? Or just doing a lot of math?

I don't consider grades to be at all too important (passing is more important, which is a prereq. for getting your degree and iron ring) but a lot of job consideration comes from your transcripts. So if you want to have some decent summer job offers you probably want to good grades in each of your first three years of undergrad. Also, U of T Engineering likes to rank students, so grades can really bring out the worst in us (i.e. you may consider grades to be important if you don't feel like being ranked at the bottom of your class).

What we learn, I'm not exactly sure, lol. But it's a heck of a lot of theory for the first two years (I'm in my third) and creative application of the theory in labs is minimal. Most lab work is systematically done. Everyone in the class creates the same AM Modulator, Data Compression program, etc. Only in fourth year you will have the opportunity to do a design project. However, I'm only describing my program (Comp Eng.) so if you're considering going to U of T for Eng Sci, there may be more opportunities for working on more creative projects. But fortunately, it's not all math -- there are quite a few labs, most are interesting and practical. In essence, if you put all the labs together in my program, you can consider yourself building hardware components.

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Originally posted by Bizz I don't consider grades to be at all too important (passing is more important, which is a prereq. for getting your degree and iron ring) but a lot of job consideration comes from your transcripts. So if you want to have some decent summer job offers you probably want to good grades in each of your first three years of undergrad. Also, U of T Engineering likes to rank students, so grades can really bring out the worst in us (i.e. you may consider grades to be important if you don't feel like being ranked at the bottom of your class). What we learn, I'm not exactly sure, lol. But it's a heck of a lot of theory for the first two years (I'm in my third) and creative application of the theory in labs is minimal. Most lab work is systematically done. Everyone in the class creates the same AM Modulator, Data Compression program, etc. Only in fourth year you will have the opportunity to do a design project. However, I'm only describing my program (Comp Eng.) so if you're considering going to U of T for Eng Sci, there may be more opportunities for working on more creative projects. But fortunately, it's not all math -- there are quite a few labs, most are interesting and practical. In essence, if you put all the labs together in my program, you can consider yourself building hardware components.

btw. juss to let everyone know that the bizz has finally finished his exams which allows him to spend the time to type all this speigl..

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Originally posted by dEsidEL btw. juss to let everyone know that the bizz has finally finished his exams which allows him to spend the time to type all this speigl..

spiegl? yea, no exams = more free time!!

Yeah, I completely agree with Bizz about grades.. Especially now when economic situation sucks, you need everything you can get(including marks) in order to have a chance for a good job.

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Originally posted by Durafei Yeah, I completely agree with Bizz about grades.. Especially now when economic situation sucks, you need everything you can get(including marks) in order to have a chance for a good job.

Personally I disagree that grades mean a hell of a lot these days. Unless you're at THE top of your program (and I am not willing to work that hard), most companies don't even look at your grades anymore. There are so few jobs available in the industry that most of them just stamp down "3 years of experience" as a requirement for the job and turn down everybody else, so what it all comes down to is once again "who you know" in the industry.

IMO it's a better idea to spend your time in university trying to make connections through profs, etc. I see people graduating with honours and still not getting jobs. In the end, when we're talking about jobs, only a graduate degree is really going to put you in demand. IF you plan to go for a graduate degree, then yes you might want to worry about the kind of marks you're getting. Of course, the simpler route to getting a good job would just be to find one in the USA or even in Western Europe, where there are TONS.

Anyone remember the survey which showed that mostly rich people consider success to come from hard work, and mostly poorer people consider it to come from higher education?

(By the way, I'm in electrical engineering with good marks, so none of this is jealous harping - rather, I'm bitter because I DID put in all this work in university and I feel that it's been absolutely worthless in the long run.)

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Originally posted by DigiNut IMO it's a better idea to spend your time in university trying to make connections through profs, etc. I see people graduating with honours and still not getting jobs. In the end, when we're talking about jobs, only a graduate degree is really going to put you in demand. IF you plan to go for a graduate degree, then yes you might want to worry about the kind of marks you're getting. Of course, the simpler route to getting a good job would just be to find one in the USA or even in Western Europe, where there are TONS.

Connections is definitely the most important thing that will guarantee a successfull career. Marks and your achievements is 2nd most important thing.. This term I got two interviews with Sun Microsystems and Amazon strictly because of my relatively high marks.. Though my experience wasn't bad either, if it wasn't for the marks, there is no way I'd get those interviews(I'm basing this assumption on the fact that I know a few other people with similar experience but lower marks who applied for those jobs as well, but didn't get an interview).

As far as being the top of your program.. Hard work won't make you the top of your program. Your talent will. And if you are talented enough to be the top of your program, you don't need to work very hard. I know the top 2-3 people in UW CS, and all of them are slackers. But then again, they are super smart so they can afford to slack off.

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Originally posted by Durafei Connections is definitely the most important thing that will guarantee a successfull career. Marks and your achievements is 2nd most important thing.. This term I got two interviews with Sun Microsystems and Amazon strictly because of my relatively high marks.. Though my experience wasn't bad either, if it wasn't for the marks, there is no way I'd get those interviews(I'm basing this assumption on the fact that I know a few other people with similar experience but lower marks who applied for those jobs as well, but didn't get an interview). As far as being the top of your program.. Hard work won't make you the top of your program. Your talent will. And if you are talented enough to be the top of your program, you don't need to work very hard. I know the top 2-3 people in UW CS, and all of them are slackers. But then again, they are super smart so they can afford to slack off.

Are you talking about co-op positions? 'Cause actually I did neglect to mention co-ops and internships and I guess marks are important for that... I didn't end up trying to do either. This is true though.

And you're right, it definitely does take talent to be at the top, but when they give hours and hours of busy-work that teaches you nothing and just wastes your time but is worth 10-20% of your mark, talent alone won't get you there (unless you blast assignments off of other talented people )

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And you're right, it definitely does take talent to be at the top, but when they give hours and hours of busy-work that teaches you nothing and just wastes your time but is worth 10-20% of your mark, talent alone won't get you there (unless you blast assignments off of other talented people )

Well, there isn't too much busy work with our CS and math courses, so you can pretty get good grades and still don't work too much. Most assignmnets that we get can be done in 3-4 hours if you know what you are doing(that doesn't include courses like Operating Systems, where you actually have to implement OS and it takes many many hours, but still, smart coder can probably do it 3-10 times faster than your average coder)

I guess my point is - to be the top student, you have to be very very bright and it takes some work, but not too much work.

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Originally posted by Bizz What I noticed though and what really pisses me off is that engineers talk more about grades than anything else...

lol, let's try not to do that here too! after reading the last few posts, I feel pretty stupid, especially since I only got a couple of job interviews (but no summer job yet) and how I slacked off seriously for most of last year

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Originally posted by Bizz lol, let's try not to do that here too! after reading the last few posts, I feel pretty stupid, especially since I only got a couple of job interviews (but no summer job yet) and how I slacked off seriously for most of last year

Well, no need to feel stupid.. a couple of job interviews is A LOT these days !

this really depends on what kinda person u are..if u will study all day after school..stay home on weekends..(im assuming ure doing something like engineering) ..then i would say waterlloo since its the best math uni..but otherwise if ure more of a chillin relaxing chilaxing going out type a person id say u of t..whichi s also a little strict ithink..when it comes to studying

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Originally posted by Durafei This might dissuade you from going to UW: Engineers dissatisfied with their program at UW Please read it.

Here is the response of the electrical and computer engineering department to the above survey. It starts like this, "The department of electrical and computer engineering is working on changes to deal with student dissatisfaction with the program..." Judging from their reply there will be changes for the better. Check out the link for further details.

ECE department responds to student survey

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Originally posted by dRale this really depends on what kinda person u are..if u will study all day after school..stay home on weekends..(im assuming ure doing something like engineering) ..then i would say waterlloo since its the best math uni..but otherwise if ure more of a chillin relaxing chilaxing going out type a person id say u of t..whichi s also a little strict ithink..when it comes to studying

whoa whoa, you should rephrase that thought, lol..

by all means, U of T Engineering "Skule" is hardly relaxing... like I mentioned before, it is world renowned, especially the EngSci program, and people from all over Canada, and many from other parts of the world, move to Toronto to take Engineering at U of T. A lot of Computer and Electrical engineering texts that are used in undergraduate studies all over North America have been written by U of T professors (i.e. a famous one is Microelectronic Circuits by Sedra and Smith -- the "bible" for electrical engineers). Because of this reputation, they make the atmosphere for undergraduate studies at U of T such that students don't chill and relax! (Sucks for me tho, and for all the U of T engineers!)

i want all dem TOTA engineers rite now to raise up dem lightahz .. lightah ! engineering lightah crew.. BOH !

So many engineers in TOTA. Yet it dosn't strike me as a geek fest. Who knew that engineers can party so hard! Thus, engineers are the best people to party with! Can somebody make a poll on what are TOTA's majors?

Ah wait, then it means that Waterloo is the hardest partying university in Ontario! There ya go! Problem solved. Go to Waterloo!

Just curious, what's Swamper's major?

p.s. I belive its TranceGeek with this creepy avatar of a gEEk! I'm beggining to think that he actually looks like that.


psst.. I actually know ..*suspicously looks around* a female at Waterloo who's rather attractive!
..............Yup! A Real Female!

Just to clarify things, I ain't no engineer. I'm a mathie/computer geek.

As far as attractive females at UW.. I happen to know more than a few

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Originally posted by DiS So many engineers in TOTA. Yet it dosn't strike me as a geek fest. Who knew that engineers can party so hard! Thus, engineers are the best people to party with! Can somebody make a poll on what are TOTA's majors?

there's a school list thread ! i'll try to dig it up for ya ..

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Just curious, what's Swamper's major?

old Swamps graduated a few years ago from York in a (computer) related field as well i believe.. the cult followers must be like the cult leader, no ?

Attn to all hardcore software eng. geeks.

on may 12-16th, 2003, our university is recieving the ISO/IEC JTC1/SC7 committee, delegates from over 35 countries come to decide the next standards in soft. development. Its a unique chance because you'll be able to have insight about the new standards a couple of years before they get released on the market. Also these guys will be in Australia next year and then Finland the year after. I can ask my teacher for "observer" passes because everything is private. (my teacher is the secretary of the organization).

http://www.jtc1-sc7.org/

here's another good event that my brother once attended.. man how nerd !

http://www.itctestweek.org/

International Test Conference 2003

International Test Conference (ITC) 2003 will be held in Charlotte, NC from September 30 - October 2, 2003.

ITC is the world's premier conference dedicated to the electronic test of devices, boards and systems, covering the complete cycle from design verification, test, diagnosis, failure analysis and back to process and design improvement. At ITC, test and design professionals can confront the challenges the industry faces, and learn how these challenges are being addressed by the combined efforts of academia, design tool and equipment suppliers, designers, and test engineers.

ITC, the cornerstone of the Test Week event, offers a wide variety of technical activities targeted at test and design theoreticians and practitioners, including: formal paper sessions, tutorials, panel sessions, case studies, lecture series, commercial exhibits and presentations, and a host of ancillary professional meetings. This includes the ITC University Booth, which provides an opportunity for the university community to demonstrate their work in device, board, and system testing research.

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Originally posted by dEsidEL here's another good event that my brother once attended.. man how nerd ! http://www.itctestweek.org/

That event sounds wicked :P
haha

Thanks for the replies once again

But now I'm even more confused. Before I was thinking I would go to Waterloo for sure... but now I'm not so sure. I've never been to Kitchener-Waterloo, but I know for sure that I would really like to live in downtown Toronto. In terms of what you learn, can anyone definitively answer which is better (for computer engineering)? I doubt it... and there seems to be a lot of engineers upset about Waterloo. But they could just be whining babies... I have no way to know for sure until I actually try it.

I got a phone call today from an ECE prof at Toronto... I think that's a good sign (in terms of getting an offer of admission). He was a nice guy and just wanted to know if I had any questions. So this, naturally, prompted me to question why I wanted to go to Waterloo over Toronto. And I realized that I'm not entirely sure. As I said before, I like downtown Toronto. In terms of reputation, both Toronto and Waterloo are great. In terms of community and school spirit... people say Toronto is bad, but I don't know how much better Waterloo will be. The only advantage I see is that the co-op at Waterloo will probably help me get a better job after I graduate.

So confusing, so confusing...

If anyone has any more input, I'd be very glad to hear it.

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