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-- Matrix: Reloaded (PLEASE DO NOT OPEN UNLESS U SAW THE MOVIE)
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Here's what I truly think they've gone with for revolutions, its similar to my previous idea, except there is no matrix within a matrix. The real world is indeed the real world, but Neo is a machine, a cybornetic organism if you will, looks human but isn't. Purposely designed to lead these people and distract them as I mentioned in my previous theory. He is then given a choice to repopulate Zion, in order to continue the process of cleaning the matrix of potential threats, which he has done in his 5 other life times, however this time he has learned how to love so he chooses to save Trinity instead. Eventually he will come to the realization that he is a machine, but he will not turn on humanity because of his love for it. Instead he will, as morpheus says in the trailer for revolutions, "fight for us".
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| Originally posted by itikia The way I figure it, Neo is a machine and always was in the first place. This is why no human can do the things he is capable of doing. If you notice, throughout part 1 and part 2 you always hear the machines saying "He's only human". You hear this line over and over again. Why would they continue saying that? Neo being a machine would also explain his ability to emit an EMP when he was out of the matrix and destroy the sentinals, at the same time draining him of energy. EDIT: I just noticed something in the Matrix: Revolutions trailer that kind of confirms my suspicions. Right before Neo fight Smith, you see Morpheus saying, "He fights for us". He is refering to 'us' as the humans, why would he say that if he's talking about Neo? He's a machine I tell you! |
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| Originally posted by Resnick the matrix within matrix thing fits in really well, but i dont think thats what actually happens.. and neo is human, not a machine, thats the whole point, that humans are stronger than machines...he just sorta binds with the matrix cuz his powers are too great and he cant control it, so he could affect the machines in the real world |
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| Originally posted by itikia Arsalan wrote: |
I'm still confused about something...
The people that reject the matrix, like Morpheus etc. live in the real-world and attempt to destroy the matrix.
But... why? Why would the machines allow them to be free, if they pose a threat? I can't see a machine allowing them to live outside the matrix, if they could just kill them for good...
Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.
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| Originally posted by Michael Russo I'm still confused about something... The people that reject the matrix, like Morpheus etc. live in the real-world and attempt to destroy the matrix. But... why? Why would the machines allow them to be free, if they pose a threat? I can't see a machine allowing them to live outside the matrix, if they could just kill them for good... Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster. |
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| Originally posted by DJLocoMoco You have to understand that letting those who reject the matrix to be free is the only way the machines can distinguish between those who accept and those who reject the program. If they don't allow these people to be free of the matrix, then in a sense they are left unchecked because they will remain inside the matrix and eventually corrupt the rest of the crop; in other words the entire population eventually rejects the matrix. So they devise a filtering system, those who reject the matrix are filtered out to Zion for destruction once a certain level is met. This filtering system is then kept intact by introducing Neo into the equation. Hope that helps, but of course I may be totally wrong hahaha We'll see when revolutions comes out |
jeez, i said it once and ill say it again, neo is NOT a machine, i would seriously like someone to prove this to me...
and once youve done that, then tell me why all these agents/zion and all that stuff exist, cuz if the machines had the power to create neo, then they could just kill anyone who resisted...no need for all the other crap...and dont say control, cuz neo can control everything and nothing can outpower him
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| Originally posted by Arsalan look who it is |
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| Originally posted by Resnick jeez, i said it once and ill say it again, neo is NOT a machine, i would seriously like someone to prove this to me... |
Great thread! Some very very very good discussion and theories being presented here, esp. the machine-Neo and Matrix-within-Matrix ones.
I have to say, that M2 did not feel like a movie. It felt like half a movie. M1 was very good in avoiding this effect - it ended very nicely - hell, it might have even ended the series, and left the "saving of humanity" to the viewers' imagination. (of course, that would be no fun, and there would be no $$$ in that ) Another thing is that M1 did not have too many unresolved threads. Actually just one major one: the issue of Neo saving humanity. In M2 there are soooo many unresolved questions, as we can see in this huge-ass thread. At least IMO. That's what makes it seem like half a movie. After M1, my mind was blown away, and I was satisfied. Here, my mind was blown away, but I left feeling cheapened. "Now I really have to wait for the last one, just to resolve even ONE question raised by this one!" I mean, not even Lord of the Rings is that bad. At least with LOTR, everyone knows that Frodo will eventually destroy the Ring and Sauron will fall. (though it would be cool if it didn't happen that way)
I initially rejected the idea that Neo was machine, or half-machine, but thinking more about it makes me wonder. What really hits me is when the French guy (how come No One remembers his name in the movie??? I know it starts with "M"...loL!), after Neo kills his minions, says, "I survived your predecessors and I'll survive you!" (paraphrasing) This strikes me as saying, "predecessors" as in "earlier iterations" i.e. earlier copies, supporting the Neo-is-a-program/machine theory. Not to mention all the other excellent points/evidence brought up by others in this thread.
Then again, having Neo not-human would be a little cheap. I thought the entire point of the Matrix film(s) was that we must find purpose in ourselves, etc., and not in machines and scientific advancement? And now, all of a sudden, there is the new message that Yes, machines are bad, but there is always a little good out of something evil? Actually now that I've articulated that it wouldn't be too bad...kind of an ironic message...mmmm I still think that's stretching it. They should stick to the original moral IMHO.
Also, let's not forget that this is Hollywood, people, Wachowski (sp?) brothers or no! Pretend that you've just seen M1 and M2 for the first time, each, and have not gone to the trouble of devising crazy theories about the story. What impressions will you have? In Star Wars terminology, M1/M2 will seem like ye olde Evil Empire (the machines/matrix) set out to rule the galaxy (or humanity), whereas on the other hand you have ye olde underdog "chosen one" Luke Skywalker (Neo) who can wield the Force (can change the Matrix) and with his skills he defeats the aforementioned Evil Empire (destroys the Matrix).
It's definitely intriguing and very intellectually stimulating to consider the "wacko" theories, but right now I am sitting on the fence, and just believe that things are not as messed up as we think they may be (they usually never are), and that in the 3rd movie there will be some sort of weird plot twist, sure, but nothing too extravagant, and *whammo* you got your Return of the Jedi happy ending complete with dancing Ewoks. 
can u people stop using the term "machine"????neo would be an application/ program...NOT A MACHINE
CORRECT TERMS PLEASE
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| Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee can u people stop using the term "machine"????neo would be an application/ program...NOT A MACHINE CORRECT TERMS PLEASE |
i dreamt this serial killer with body parts in his closet chased me down and stabbed me. then i said to myself, "wait, i'm in the matrix!" and he made me a jam sandwich, and we went fishing, and i caught a fish, and we ate it.
about the sole survivor, it was the guy that smith overwrote, and then answered the call in the start of the movie, to go back to zion. and the reason he survived obviously was that the machines know he's on their side. the neat thing about the scene where it's as though he was going to kill neo with the knife, but cut just cut his own hand and shoke neo's, is that maybe the blood contains the smith virus, and transferred it into neo. how else would smith know exactly where neo was in the backdoor part of the movie? another unknown, haha
^^^^^^^^ken ..u need some rest.....
first off agent smith is not working with the rest of the matrix but is an independent program that is free and after Neo for his own good. the guy he overwrote survived not cos teh AI knew that he was down there but maybe coincidence.
he was about to stab neo in the back until neo hear him and tunred around.
see the reason why he cut his hands was to feel pain cos as a program he doesnt have senses...so it was to basicallyt show the reality he was dealing with
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| Originally posted by Arsalan wow really smart apporach and as far as then zion thing goes, i totally agree with you and that is what i got out of it. but with neo still being in the matrix even in the "real world" , i dont think they are taking that apporach because when they got out, he was like , something is different , i can feel them. so i dont know , it prolly has something to do with agent smith as we can see in the trailer also. |
you sure bout that liam? maybe the machines let him survive becuase as far as they know, the the real world agent smith is still on their side. coincidence? that would be one helluva coincidence then
and about the cutting thing, you may be right, but i like my idea better.
homo. 
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| Originally posted by Michael Russo Then why don't you seriously tell us one of your brilliant ideas? The signs seem to be pointing to the fact that neo is a machine. Come on... dozens of "he's only human" comments, as well as Morpheus' "he fights for us" statement. Either they're going to develop the story in this fashion, or they're being really clever and pulling an oracle stunt, getting us to think that he is a machine, only to then trick us. Time will tell... Personally I think it would be really awesome if there was not matrix in a matrix, and neo is not a machine... that would make for good theatre |
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| Originally posted by Resnick actually i did tell my theory earlier in the thread, and if someone has read/seen dune/akira, they will completely understand what im saying... but anywho i ask again, if neo is a machine, he could kill all the humans who resisted, no movie then .... |
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| Originally posted by DJLocoMoco True, but Neo doesn't realize that he is a machine, he believes he is human. In his past 5 lifetimes he has always chosen to repopulate zion, so he has never come to the realization of his true nature. This time is different he chose Trintiy over zion, and along with the fact that agent smith is in the real world, I think Neo will learn of his true nature, but as I said before he won't betray humanity because he has learned to love. |
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| Originally posted by Resnick y wouldnt the architect just make him aware that he's an enemy and use him more efficiently... |
he just did didn't he? he made Neo choose Trinity over saving teh entire race
It was so borring, especially that scene where Neo talks to that old white dude that talk a lot of shit which noone can understand. Damn. I mean the fighting scenes were good. But the movie overall was way too borring.
The more I reflect on the movie, the more it dawns on me just how pointless and overdone M2 was. There is no consistency and coherency, just tacked-on action sequences and prattling philosophical one-liners.
Before I get flamed let me explain. The kung-fu factor of M1 was amazing precisely because it was unexpected. The philosophy of the first movie was amazing precisely because it was unexpected. Both of these, however, would have lost their effect if they were taken outside the context of the first movie. This is exactly what happens in M2. There is no more emphasis on the duality of worlds between the Matrix and the real world. It's just a sloshfest of various scenes. Characters come and go. The "philosophy" is totally empty as it serves no purpose. The philosophy in the 1st movie bolstered the overall theme. Here, it does not do that.
Most of all, however, I detest the fact that the Wachowski brothers have succumbed to both corporate America/Hollywood and to their own cultist followers. The former because of all the senseless advertising. The second because they apparently seem to believe themselves that they're prophets or something, when in fact they should just be moviemakers telling a cool story.
I'll focus on the advertising. What the hell is up with that?? First let's get the Heineken and other little trivia like that out of the way.
Then, we have those two cars that are driven by the evil ghost twins. First of all I have no clue what make they are, but damn are they ugly and blocky. Second, it is painfully obvious that they both drive the same brand of car, and why did one have to be a sedan and the other an SUV?? It's like that company is parading its stock on the screen of the Matrix, which is exactly what it is doing!! And let's not mention that horrible, horrible little take when they start the car chase. If you recall, while still in the city, the SUV plows through a car or two and totally rips off the rear end. Then, the camera zooms on the decimated car and we see it's a -surprise surprise- BMW. Then the camera goes back to one of the evil twins who gives an evil smirk. You can almost hear the marketing phrase: "Buy our SUV. It will smash the competition away. Literally." So utterly disgusting. What a waste of my precious time. Instead of contributing to a potentially great movie, they waste time with senseless car commercials.
Second, the Niobe character. She was utterly pointless in terms of the story. The only reason why she even existed was to justify that new Matrix videogame, "Enter the Matrix" or whatever, which is based on her. I read in a review that some of the written previews for M2 stated that you will not understand the movie without having played the game, and vice versa. I'm sorry, but I'm here simply to see a movie and be entertained. I do not wish to be bogged down with a stupid "prerequisite" such as playing a videogame, wasting so many more hours just so I can understand the movie. What bull!
It's really too bad Hollywood got to Wachowski and co. and totally subverted them almost beyond recognition. I still definitely want to see Revolutions, if only for the hope that there might be something good waiting at the end of all this.
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| Originally posted by Alccode The more I reflect on the movie, the more it dawns on me just how pointless and overdone M2 was. There is no consistency and coherency, just tacked-on action sequences and prattling philosophical one-liners. Before I get flamed let me explain. The kung-fu factor of M1 was amazing precisely because it was unexpected. The philosophy of the first movie was amazing precisely because it was unexpected. Both of these, however, would have lost their effect if they were taken outside the context of the first movie. This is exactly what happens in M2. There is no more emphasis on the duality of worlds between the Matrix and the real world. It's just a sloshfest of various scenes. Characters come and go. The "philosophy" is totally empty as it serves no purpose. The philosophy in the 1st movie bolstered the overall theme. Here, it does not do that. Most of all, however, I detest the fact that the Wachowski brothers have succumbed to both corporate America/Hollywood and to their own cultist followers. The former because of all the senseless advertising. The second because they apparently seem to believe themselves that they're prophets or something, when in fact they should just be moviemakers telling a cool story. I'll focus on the advertising. What the hell is up with that?? First let's get the Heineken and other little trivia like that out of the way. Then, we have those two cars that are driven by the evil ghost twins. First of all I have no clue what make they are, but damn are they ugly and blocky. Second, it is painfully obvious that they both drive the same brand of car, and why did one have to be a sedan and the other an SUV?? It's like that company is parading its stock on the screen of the Matrix, which is exactly what it is doing!! And let's not mention that horrible, horrible little take when they start the car chase. If you recall, while still in the city, the SUV plows through a car or two and totally rips off the rear end. Then, the camera zooms on the decimated car and we see it's a -surprise surprise- BMW. Then the camera goes back to one of the evil twins who gives an evil smirk. You can almost hear the marketing phrase: "Buy our SUV. It will smash the competition away. Literally." So utterly disgusting. What a waste of my precious time. Instead of contributing to a potentially great movie, they waste time with senseless car commercials. Second, the Niobe character. She was utterly pointless in terms of the story. The only reason why she even existed was to justify that new Matrix videogame, "Enter the Matrix" or whatever, which is based on her. I read in a review that some of the written previews for M2 stated that you will not understand the movie without having played the game, and vice versa. I'm sorry, but I'm here simply to see a movie and be entertained. I do not wish to be bogged down with a stupid "prerequisite" such as playing a videogame, wasting so many more hours just so I can understand the movie. What bull! It's really too bad Hollywood got to Wachowski and co. and totally subverted them almost beyond recognition. I still definitely want to see Revolutions, if only for the hope that there might be something good waiting at the end of all this. |
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