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Posted by sebjr on Oct-13-2003 20:00:

nemesis took your advice and it helped me out quite a bit. keyed and bpmed most of my tunes now. to prevent melody clashing (even when in key) i mix out a bit later then i normally do. i find this quite hard but ive noticed my mixes now:

- flow a lot more smoothly
- no need to make massive pitch adjustments like i used to

so this is a big improvement

but yeah with the stuff i play (progressive house), the tracks can go on for quite a while before the outro. while it sounds nice and clean when mixing in like this, it could get boring i guess.

Posted by jwear2004 on Mar-31-2004 08:16:

More more more! If you've got any more updates, it'd be awesome if you could post them up!

Posted by brian on Mar-31-2004 17:32:

Would you guys be interested in a database-driven web site to hold all this info? It'd be searchable by artist and title (and perhaps label, if more people than just myself feel like finding that information). I could actually construct one rather quickly and host it at harmonics.defined.org. Let me know if there's interest in doing this and I'd be happy to put something up and put in all the data Nemesis has posted, with his permission.

Posted by brian on Mar-31-2004 17:35:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
A#m (3A) TDR 01 - ? Big Dutch Trancer (If anyone recognises that promo code and knows what the name of this tune send me a PM as I would love to know.)

Could it perhaps be this release?

Posted by spike_boy69 on Mar-31-2004 21:26:

yeh brian, id love to c that, would be helpful

Posted by Nemesis44 on Mar-31-2004 23:15:

quote:
Originally posted by brian
Could it perhaps be this release?

Yup, it's the one.
Had it for ages and was playing it a lot. It didn't really see a major release though, which is a shame as it's a good track.
DJ Marky and Leeroy.

DJ Marky has a regular spot on C-Dance. Between 7-8pm CET if I'm not mistaken.

And yes I have considered a data base with all this stuff. Only reason I stopped is when you get a few individuals who try to put you down without actually knowing fully what they are talking about. But you get that with everything these days.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by Ghostface on Mar-31-2004 23:27:

I'd be very keen for the database.

Posted by rafale on Apr-03-2004 15:19:

Brian the database is a great idea, in fact I actually suggested it in a different post. Maybe we can collaborate on this.. anyone else interested??

Posted by rafale on Apr-05-2004 06:20:

More keys! more keys!! i'm bringing in a keyboard this evening .. start keying my own tunes =)

Posted by jwear2004 on Apr-06-2004 19:58:

an internet database would be nice... please

Posted by brian on Apr-19-2004 16:17:

I spent about 4 hours yesterday going through only one of three of my record baskets keying and bpm'ing tunes...the results are below. I'm pretty confident on these, but verification is always nice

128 / Cm (5A) 4th Avenue - No Sleep
137 / Em (9A) Aalto - Rush (Super 8 vs. Orkidea Remix)
137 / Fm (4A) Above & Beyond - Far From In Love (Airbase Remix)
137 / Fm (4A) Above & Beyond - Far From In Love (Original Mix)
137 / G# (4B) Above & Beyond - Far From In Love (San Francisco Mix)
139 / Am (8A) Afterburn - Summer Sun
139 / Am (8A) Agnelli & Nelson feat. Aureas - Holding Onto Nothing (Original Paul van Dyk Edit)
134 / C#m (12A) Airwave - When Things Go Wrong (Remix)
137 / Fm (4A) AR52 - Enigma
137 / A#m (3A) BBE - Seven Days And One Week (Ferry Corsten Remix)
128 / C# (3B) Big Thrills - Donna Does Pills (Original Mix)
137 / Bm (10A) Binary Finary - 1998 (Ronski Speed Remix)
137 / Bm (10A) Blair Bitch - Ilios
136 / F#m (11A) Blair Bitch - Texas Chainsaw Massacre
135 / Dm (7A) Bossanova - Stone Cold (Original Mix)
137 / Bm (10A) Castaneda - Floor Control (John Askew's 5am Gallery Mix)
137 / Bm (10A) Castaneda - Floor Control (Original Mix)
139 / Am (8A) Chemical Brothers - Electronic Battle Weapon 6
134 / G#m (1A) Chicane feat. Bryan Adams - Don't Give Up 2004 (Agnelli & Nelson Mix)
134 / Fm (4A) Chicane feat. Bryan Adams - Don't Give Up 2004 (Alex Gold And The Sound Xpress Mix)
139 / Cm (5A) Cortez - Scaramanga
133 / Fm (4A) Cortez - The Force
139 / Dm (7A) Darren Tate & Jono Grant - Let The Light Shine In
137 / F# (2B) Darren Tate vs. Jono Grant - Nocturnal Creatures (Jono Grant Remix)
136 / F#m (11A) DJ Danjo & Rob Styles - Witness
139 / Cm (5A) Donald & Giles - Weekend Wonder (D&G Mix)
137 / Em (9A) DT8 feat. Roxanne Wilde - Destination (Darren 'DT8' Tate's Original Mix)
137 / Em (9A) DT8 feat. Roxanne Wilde - Destination (Jurgen Vries Mix)
135 / C#m (12A) Endre - Kallocain (Robert Nickson Mix)
137 / A (11B) Envio - Touched By The Sun (Original Mix)
139 / F#m (11A) F&W - You Will Understand (Original Mix)
137 / G (9B) Ferry Corsten - Indigo (Original Mix)
136 / Bm (10A) Ferry Corsten - Right Of Way
131 / A#m (3A) Ferry Corsten - Rock Your Body, Rock (Extended Mix)
129 / G (9B) Fight Club feat. Laurent Konrad - Spread Love (DK Remix)
139 / D#m (2A) Filo & Peri - Elevation
139 / Em (9A) Filo & Peri - Juicy
137 / F#m (11A) Firewall - Sincere (Pulser Remix)
137 / D#m (2A) Free Raidcal - Surreal (En-Motion Remix)
139 / Am (8A) FX Zone - Synthasia (Original Mix)
139 / Dm (7A) Green Atlas - Circulation
139 / Bm (10A) Inner & Outer - Eastway
134 / D#m (2A) Inner & Outer - Reaching
139 / Cm (5A) JamX & DeLeon - Can U Dig It? (Original Mix)
127 / Fm (4A) Kamaya Painters - Wasteland (Chab's 'Tribute To Bedrock' Remix)
138 / D#m (2A) Kyau vs. Albert - Velvet Morning (Aalto Remix)
130 / F#m (11A) Lemon8 - New York, New York (Out Of The Sanctuary Mix)
137 / C#m (12A) LNG - Inter City
129 / Fm (4A) Lolo - Extended Horizon
134 / D#m (2A) Lolo - Landscape
134 / Gm (6A) Lost Witness - Did I Dream (Song To The Siren) (DJ Ti�sto Remix)
138 / Am (8A) M.I.D.O.R & Six4Eight feat. DJ Precision - Far East
135 / D (10B) Mark Lowndes - The Curse (Original Mix)
139 / Bm (10A) Mark Norman - Phantom Manor
132 / Gm (6A) Mark Otten - Mushroom Therapy (Armin van Buuren Remix)
129 / F (7B) Markus Schulz pres. Elevation - Clear Blue (Original Mix)
137 / D (10B) Masters & Nickson - Out There (5th Dimension)
139 / F#m (11A) Matt Darey - Electro Buzz
137 / F#m (11A) Matti Laamanen - Flakes (Original Mix)
141 / F (7B) Mauro Picotto & Riccardo Ferri - Codebreaker
134 / Em (9A) Mauro Picotto & Riccardo Ferri - New Time New Place
135 / Am (8A) Megamind - Taub (2002 Mix)
136 / Bm (10A) Midway - Inca
137 / Dm (7A) Mind One feat. Rena - Star For Me (Mind One's Original Instrumental Mix)
137 / Dm (7A) Mind One feat. Rena - Star For Me (Pulser's UK Vocal Mix)
137 / Am (8A) Miro - By Your Side (Ronski Speed Dub)
129 / F# (2B) Moogwai - Neon (Moogwai Club Mix)
140 / Cm (5A) Nick Lunn & YOMC pres. Tecno-Punk - Energize
142 / Am (8A) Nu NRG - Connective
141 / Dm (7A) Nu NRG - Supersonik Way
138 / D#m (2A) Octagen & Arizona - Profound
139 / Gm (6A) Octagen & Arizona - Starburst
135 / Am (8A) Oliver Lieb - Subsonik (Filterheadz Remix)
135 / Am (8A) Oliver Lieb - Subsonik (Original Mix)
134 / Fm (4A) Paul van Dyk - Connected
135 / Cm (5A) Paul van Dyk - Movement
144 / Gm (6A) Paul van Dyk - Out There
138 / D# (5B) Paul van Dyk feat. Hemstock & Jennings - Nothing But You (PvD Club Mix)
134 / Am (8A) Paul van Dyk feat. Second Sun - Crush (PvD Original Mix)
134 / Am (8A) Paul van Dyk feat. Second Sun - Crush (Vandit Club Mix)
138 / E (12B) Paul van Dyk feat. Vega 4 - Time Of Our Lives
139 / A# (6B) Phil Green - Solaris
139 / F# (2B) Phil Green - Tribal Trance
137 / D#m (2A) Pulser - My Religion (Original Mix)
139 / Cm (5A) Rafferty & Kershaw - We Are Connected (Marcos pres. Sunfire Remix)
138 / Fm (4A) Rah - Glow (Airbase Remix)
134 / D# (5B) Rah - Wave (Airbase Original Mix)
136 / Dm (7A) Rank1 - Breathing (Airwave) (Breaks Dub Mix)
138 / Am (8A) Rapid Eye - Circa-Forever (Rapid Eye R.E.mix)
134 / Am (8A) Rio Klein - Fearless (Agnelli & Nelson Remix)
144 / E (12B) RMB - Redemption 2.0 (Club Version)
136 / A (11B) Robert Nickson - Spiral (Original Mix)
139 / G#m (1A) Ron van den Beuken - Timeless (Ron van den Beuken Remix)
137 / Gm (6A) Ronald van Gelderen - Proceed (Original Mix)
137 / Gm (6A) Ronald van Gelderen - Sustain (Original Extended Mix)
139 / F#m (11A) Scarab - Vagabond (Original Mix)
136 / Em (9A) Scott Bond vs. Solarstone - 3rd Earth (Original Mix)
139 / Gm (6A) Shockwave - Missing The Beat
131 / B (1B) Silencer - Believing (Dylan Rhymes Pressure Tex Mix)
138 / F (7B) Solid Sleep - Club Attach (Paul van Dyk TPOD Mix)
137 / G#m (1A) Sun Decade - Follow You (Original Dub Mix)
137 / Cm (5A) Super 8 - Alba
137 / Bm (10A) System F - Spaceman (Extended Mix)
136 / D# (5B) Taiko - Silence (Club Mix)
133 / Cm (5A) Thomas Schumacher - The Fortunate Ones (Humate Remix)
137 / A#m (3A) Ti�sto - Traffic (Original Mix)
130 / F# (2B) Tilt feat. Maria Nayler - Headstrong (Relentless Vocal Mix)
134 / A (11B) Warrior - If You Want Me (Original Mix)
137 / D#m (2A) Witness of Wonder - Emotion In Motion
135 / Cm (5A) Z2 - I Want You (Original Mix)

Posted by Nemesis44 on Apr-19-2004 18:10:

Good work my friend,

Robert Nickson - Spiral goes in A Major (11B), same goes for Envio -touched by the Sun.
These tracks mix well with stuff in F#minor (relevant minor aka 11A), also tracks in E and D (Major that is).

The numbers you were quoting are actually based on the camelot method of mixing which some people find easier to deal with. It's just another system of working out which tunes work and which ones don't and neither way is wrong or right. (Some people have been knonw to refer to it as DJing by numbers but that's just ignorance...)

Keep doing what you are doing as by comparing the ones I had atleast you seem to be on track.
Although I have been questioned a few times on my track keying I have never really had anyone able to prove that I'm wrong (and I am not trying to say I don't make mistakes, beleive me I have made a ton). But I'm pretty confident about my track keying.

I should update my list too as I have a lot of new music since the last.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by brian on Apr-19-2004 18:29:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
Robert Nickson - Spiral goes in A Major (11B), same goes for Envio -touched by the Sun.

Updated

quote:
The numbers you were quoting are actually based on the camelot method of mixing

Is there a list somewhere of which keys correspond to which numbers?

quote:
Keep doing what you are doing as by comparing the ones I had atleast you seem to be on track.
Although I have been questioned a few times on my track keying I have never really had anyone able to prove that I'm wrong (and I am not trying to say I don't make mistakes, beleive me I have made a ton). But I'm pretty confident about my track keying.

Indeed, same here. When I got started, I keyed the ones you had previously keyed in our last e-mails, and discovered how easy it all was, and went ahead and did all the ones in that record case. I did have trouble with some of the more housey and progressive tunes like Kamaya Painters - Wasteland and Tilt - Headstrong where they didn't use the middle note in the chord...so in very few cases I couldn't tell if it was a major or minor, but ultimately went with whichever chord sounded best with the rest of the song. So of course I could be wrong on some of these as well

Posted by brian on Apr-20-2004 05:34:

Just got done keying more...

139 / Cm (5A) 4 Strings - Diving (Original Mix)
139 / Cm (5A) 4 Strings - Diving (Original Vocal Mix)
136 / G# (4B) 4 Strings - Let It Rain (Driftwood Remix)
139 / G# (4B) 4 Strings - Let It Rain (E-Craig Remix)
137 / Fm (4A) 4 Strings - Let It Rain (Mystery Remix)
131 / Am (8A) Armin van Buuren feat. Ray Wilson - Yet Another Day (Attention Deficit Adderrol Session)
131 / Am (8A) Armin van Buuren feat. Ray Wilson - Yet Another Day (Attention Deficit Multi Task Remix)
139 / D#m (2A) Astura - Emotions
137 / D#m (2A) Astura - Orion's Belt
137 / G# (4B) Bas Van Veen - Lockdown (Original Mix)
139 / D#m (2A) Cern - The Message (Northern Mix)
139 / D#m (2A) Cern - The Message (Southern Mix)
134 / Cm (5A) Chakra - Doors (Original Mix)
139 / A#m (3A) Clokx - Clocks
137 / F#m (11A) Dany Wild - Night By Night
134 / G (9B) Desiderio - Starlight (Armin's Rising Star Mix)
139 / Em (9A) Desiderio - Starlight (Ferry Corsten Remix)
139 / Em (9A) Desiderio - Starlight (Ronald van Gelderen Remix)
141 / Gm (6A) Digital Pressure - Aftershock (Original Mix)
138 / Cm (5A) DJ Danjo & Rob Styles - Aragon (Intro Mix)
138 / Cm (5A) DJ Danjo & Rob Styles - Aragon (Original Mix)
138 / Cm (5A) DJ Danjo & Rob Styles - On The Verge
133 / Cm (5A) DJ Ernesto - Urban Cowboy
134 / G (9B) DJ Ti�sto feat. Nicola Hitchcock - In My Memory (V-One Remix)
137 / Gm (6A) Eon - Pocket Damage
137 / C (8B) Eon - Talk To Me
137 / Am (8A) Goldenscan - Sunrise (Pulser 6am Remix)
137 / Am (8A) Goldenscan - Sunrise (Ronski Speed Remix)
139 / Am (8A) Igor S - Boomerang (Igor S Mix)
137 / F#m (11A) J.K. Walker - Hard
137 / F#m (11A) J.K. Walker - Trance
139 / A (11B) Jaron Inc - Overflow (Original Mix)
137 / Fm (4A) John Askew - Shadows After Dark
139 / Cm (5A) John Askew - The Door
134 / Em (9A) Karada - Last Flight (Robert Nickson Remix)
137 / D# (5B) Katana - Dukkha
137 / D#m (2A) Katana - Tribal Shock (A13)
141 / Em (9A) Koris vs. DJule - Belved�re (DJule Side)
135 / Em (9A) Koris vs. DJule - Belved�re (Mesh Side)
139 / Bm (10A) Mark Norman - Phantom Manor
133 / F (7B) Meo - Sleepless (John Johnson Remix)
135 / E (12B) Michelle Nicol - Time (Original Mix)
136 / F#m (11A) Midway - Monkey Forest
137 / A#m (3A) Musix - Cyber Desire
137 / Am (8A) Musix - Turn The Page
138 / D#m (2A) Ozone - Rock (Original Mix)
137 / Dm (7A) Paul van Dyk - For An Angel (PvD's E-Werk Club Mix)
139 / D#m (2A) Paul van Dyk - Words (For Love)
137 / Em (9A) Paul van Dyk feat. Saint Etienne - Tell Me Why (Vandit Mix)
137 / Gm (6A) Rapid Eye - Stealing Beauty (Rapid Eye R.E.mix)
137 / Gm (6A) Rapid Eye - Stealing Beauty (Ronald van Gelderen Mix)
137 / G#m (1A) Ronski Speed - Iris (John Askew Remix)
137 / G#m (1A) Ronski Speed - Iris (Original Mix)
134 / Fm (4A) Subsola - So Pure (Ferry Corsten Remix)
137 / Fm (4A) Subsola - So Pure (Matti Laamanen Remix)
137 / G (9B) System F - Out Of The Blue (Ferry Corsten's Second Edition)
137 / Em (9A) System F - Solstice
139 / A#m (3A) The Gift - The Seventh Day (M.I.K.E. Remix)
139 / A#m (3A) The Gift - The Seventh Day (Main Mix)
135 / Fm (4A) Three Drives - Carrera 2
129 / Am (8A) Tomcraft - Brainwashed (Laurent Konrad Remix)
137 / F (7B) Vincent & Quentin - Freeway (Ralphie B Dub Mix)
134 / D#m (2A) William Orbit - Barber's Adagio For Strings (Ferry Corsten Remix)
136 / F# (2B) William Orbit - Ravel's Pavane pour une Infante D�funte (Ferry Corsten Mix)
139 / Dm (7A) Yves Deruyter - Back To Earth (Rave Mix)

...and damn I had an absolute blast listening to some of these classics. Carrera 2, Sleepless (John Johnson Rmx), Doors, Monkey Forest, Solstice, etc.

Posted by Unknown DJ on Apr-20-2004 15:26:

quote:
Originally posted by brian

139 / D#m (2A) Cern - The Message (Northern Mix)
139 / D#m (2A) Cern - The Message (Southern Mix)

i thought both of these were in Em (9A) well mixmeister said that. its so ahrd to tell whats rite and what isnt. it sounded good when i mixed it into a 8A record :S or maybe my hearing is just fucked.

Posted by brian on Apr-20-2004 17:31:

quote:
Originally posted by Unknown DJ
i thought both of these were in Em (9A) well mixmeister said that. its so ahrd to tell whats rite and what isnt. it sounded good when i mixed it into a 8A record :S or maybe my hearing is just fucked.

Hmm...I admit I'm not flawless, but Em sounds really out of place to me. Play a low D# at the beginning of the track when the bass just gets started, or alternatively, a D#m chord (D#, F#, A#) during the beginning of the breakdown when those softer string-like synths are going and you'll surely hear it

Posted by Nemesis44 on Apr-20-2004 18:01:

quote:
Originally posted by brian
Hmm...I admit I'm not flawless, but Em sounds really out of place to me. Play a low D# at the beginning of the track when the bass just gets started, or alternatively, a D#m chord (D#, F#, A#) during the beginning of the breakdown when those softer string-like synths are going and you'll surely hear it

Both mixes are in D#m (2A).

Cheers
Nem

Posted by Nemesis44 on Apr-20-2004 18:04:

quote:
Originally posted by Unknown DJ
i thought both of these were in Em (9A) well mixmeister said that. its so ahrd to tell whats rite and what isnt. it sounded good when i mixed it into a 8A record :S or maybe my hearing is just fucked.

Just out of interest what was the 8A you mixed. Seeing as mixmeister gets it wrong sometimes perhaps you mixed it into something actually is compatible like an A#m (like Ayu-M).

Cheers
Nem

Posted by D Dubya on Apr-20-2004 19:03:

Is someone taking all these posts and compiling one massive list? I doubt I will ever really use it, but it would be a shame for all this information to remain broken up or lost.....

Posted by brian on Apr-20-2004 19:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Dirk W.
Is someone taking all these posts and compiling one massive list? I doubt I will ever really use it, but it would be a shame for all this information to remain broken up or lost.....

Yeah, I've actually got them all in a DB...its currently got 362 in there, and will be opening up a site for it by the end of the week...searchable by artist, title, label, key, and bpm range.

Posted by ChavezHype on Apr-20-2004 20:12:

when you do open it... please let us know!

Posted by brian on Apr-20-2004 21:18:

quote:
Originally posted by ChavezHype
when you do open it... please let us know!

Sure thing!

Posted by Unknown DJ on Apr-20-2004 22:51:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
Just out of interest what was the 8A you mixed. Seeing as mixmeister gets it wrong sometimes perhaps you mixed it into something actually is compatible like an A#m (like Ayu-M).

Cheers
Nem

it was Mono - Rise (Smith & Pledger Remix) i only just started mixing harmonicly and my ears arnt used to it. so maybe thats y. mixmeister is kinda shit for this i guess. makes me wonder how many more of the records ive already keyed are wrong.

Posted by Nemesis44 on Apr-20-2004 23:14:

quote:
Originally posted by Unknown DJ
it was Mono - Rise (Smith & Pledger Remix) i only just started mixing harmonicly and my ears arnt used to it. so maybe thats y. mixmeister is kinda shit for this i guess. makes me wonder how many more of the records ive already keyed are wrong.

Mono (Airbase, Jezper S�derlund or whatever else he calls himself)- Rise does indeed go in Am. The theory would suggest that they wouldn't go that well together but the reason why it works here is because Mono-Rise is a much slower record in order to play it with Cern at around 2% you need to play mono at about 6% which is a difference of 4% (yup my maths is amazing...) which pushes Mono closer to the A#m range than the Am. So you are actually mixing a D#m (2a) into a A#m) (3a).

Nothing wrong with your ears though.. this actually works pretty well so just keep it at it.

Simple rule is usually if you have more than a 3% difference with tracks it will sound real bad. Over 4% and you are actually closer to the next note up so you may have to treat the record differently and think about perhaps mixing it with some different records.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by Dervish on Apr-20-2004 23:36:

Take it you guys all know about djprince's site yeah?

In case you don't >>>>LINK<<<<

You can search using the box thing in the bar thing at the top.

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