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-- "YAAAAAY....lets take MORE land that isnt ours!"- Israel
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quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian And if you learn from the past, walls have always fallen in the end.]

what past are you talking about?
the first thing that comes to mind is the berlin wall. it was extremely effective in stopping people cross the boarder.
from 1963 until 1989, almost 5000 escapes are attempted. Among those, 3000 lead to injury and arrest and 239 result in death. it only fell due to political reasons not sercurity (source). same thing i envision happening with this wall. when a peace agreement is finalized there will be no need for a wall.

so what if the most of the hamas operations are in gaza, not a single one of them was a suicide bomber, now if this were applied to the westbank there could potentially be a lot more. you try passing this high tech fence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/...rier/html/1.stm

please don't justify the berlin wall. This is apartheid. I showed you the results of this wall to Palestinians. It will not stop suicide bombers. I'm positive about that. Israel's poor are suffering because of the money that is being spent on the wall rather than on them by the way. I don't see any peace agreement being reached with the wall in place. People will still suffer. I assure you of that. As long as people are suffering they will find a way to inflict pain on the oppressor. You'll see.

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian please don't justify the berlin wall. This is apartheid.

i am not justifying it, though my opinion on the matter should have no baring on this, i just wanted showed you that walls/fences are effective and do not always come down. many other countries currently have fences along their borders which are effective in stopping illegal aliens from reaching their country, i would hardly call that aparheid. A country has the soverign right to deny access to its country any non citizen.

quote:

I don't see any peace agreement being reached with the wall in place. People will still suffer.

stop being so short sided.
It's because of statements like this that i feel the palestinian people will never be able to negotiate peace. This wall can be torn apart as easily (if not easier) then it is to put up. To be so shortsighted where you think peace is un-negotionable because of this or any other situation is a shame (there agian is the all or nothing mentality palestinian negotiators seem to display). If anything i think it will draw the palestinians to an agreement quicker becuase they can physically see they are on the losing side (as yoepus said).

Izzy, that is PALESTINIAN LAND, plain and simple...Israel is STEALING this from them. This is wrong.

Please dont sit there and say that this is the right thing to do.. that theft is the answer to this problem.

I think the Zionists are getting a little to selfish now...even stealing TREES!!!

Makes me sick

Walls like this are a sign of racism. Apartheid to South Africans meant separation by race. Newsflash, this wall isn't going along the Israeli border anyway. It's way past the green line and into the West Bank. If you lost your house and farm to the wall, you would be against it too and if your country had a military, maybe your son would join to defend his land, but unfortunately we dont' have a military, so instead those people will join Hamas and Jihad and there you have it, Israel just created more hatred, more violence, more suffering.
The Israeli government isn't planning this as a temporary means. They're spending 1.5 billion dollars on this wall, taken from money that should be going to Israel's poor. 2 million dollars per kilometer of the wall. This wall is also has electronic sensors and I heard gun turrets but can't confirm the turrets at the moment. We have lost enough land to Israel. The West Bank is going to be disconnected into separate islands, this is what the proposed map for the wall has and the disconnected islands were also proposed in Barak's offer.
Hey buddy, you're the one who thinks peace is unnegotiable because of suicide bombers. The PA is always ready to negotiate peace.
And we were on the losing side since 1948, this isn't a competition or a game of football. People will fight for their land no matter what. We've already been through hell. Gaza is already the artificial hell on earth. No matter how much worse it gets, Palestinians will always fight for their land. You don't force someone to reach an agreement by taking their land and building this wall and taking their food. This is truly racism. You want them to suffer so they can realize they must reach an agreement. This is disgusting.

When Israel decides to sit its ass on the negotiating table, then we can reach an agreement.

look, first of all its not racism.

Doing something against a people that aims to kill you is called self-defense. Israel is not building a wall because I just doesn't like Palestinian, its building a wall because it doesn't like Palestinians blowing themselves up in Israel.

Second, yes Israel can use the money to spend on its poor - but it choses instead to give them life. What good will food and shelter do you, if you will be blown up the next day on the bus? Israel is determining its priorties - it considers its citizens survival more important then their poverty.

Third, it isn't "Palestinian" land - its disputed, both have good claims to it.

Fourth, when the "Palestinians" had a military they used it - thats why they don't have one anymore (they lost it... numerous times).

Fifth, the South African apartiate government never built any walls seperating the races... walls that have been build have been shown very effective (Hadrian's wall, the Great Wall, the Berlin wall - all served and fulfilled their purpose),

Sixth, Israel is cutting down trees not for the olives, and not to deprive Palestinians of their livelyhood. They do this to create an open clearing so Palestinians will not snipe and attack Israelis from their cover as they have done previously.

I really don't feel like arguing with you.
First, there is no "disputed". I've already addressed this. It's OCCUPIED. Ask your prime minister. Ask the UN. Ask the US. Get rid of your extremist mentality. The West Bank is Palestinian land. And if you disagree, then it's not wonder your country is so hated.

Second, we never had a military. It was other arab countries that fought for us in previous wars. Either way it doesn't matter if we had one or not, point is we dont' have one now and therefore we will resist by other means.

Third, Apartheid is separation regardless of the means. Different coloured license plates is also apartheid.

Fourth, I don't give a shit what reason Israel is taking trees for, the result is that Palestinians ARE deprived of their livelihood.
My great uncle's orchard was plowed to hell last month in Gaza. There were no "snipers" between my orange trees or my cows lol. My great uncle's family lost a good source of income and the family tending the orchard lost their job and their food. I guess their son will hate Israel even more as his family starves. good job.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Oh yes, we forgot...the world revolves around Vibers 15 year old experiences...hhahahahahhahhhaha its so funny to read your responses, you really make me laugh at you. Whenever you dont agree, everything becomes "a piece of shit". I will take Gush Shaloms research over your idiocy any day Vibrator.

you idiot asshole i know whats happenning in my country more then you thats for sure,and look im only 15 and im much smarter and i know more stuff then you,but its ok,i know monkeys developes slowly then man
soo please STFU.
you will fit gush-shalom very well you stupid piece of trash,and whats that you said about my nick,cyrus-queen??!

quote:

Originally posted by Viber you idiot asshole i know whats happenning in my country more then you thats for sure,and look im only 15 and im much smarter and i know more stuff then you,but its ok,i know monkeys developes slowly then man soo please STFU. you will fit gush-shalom very well you stupid piece of trash,and whats that you said about my nick,cyrus-queen??!

HAAAAAA......

And its good that you know monkeys brains develop slower than mans.

cyrus-queen..that is sooo insulting

quote:

Originally posted by Viber you idiot asshole i know whats happenning in my country more then you thats for sure,and look im only 15 and im much smarter and i know more stuff then you,but its ok,i know monkeys developes slowly then man soo please STFU. you will fit gush-shalom very well you stupid piece of trash,and whats that you said about my nick,cyrus-queen??!

Really, don't flatter yourself, from your rhetorics it was obvious already that you're pretty young.

And btw, monkey's brain structure develops and reaches maximum level much faster than that of humans. So if you're fully mature at 15 already, I wouldn't brag about it in your place.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber cyrus-queen!

hahaha i knew it would stick!!!

hahahahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King HAAAAAA...... And its good that you know monkeys brains develop slower than mans. cyrus-queen..that is sooo insulting

you are so stupid that you cant think about an original burn.
and Btw:i forgat to say how much i hate you today,so,i hate you!

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Really, don't flatter yourself, from your rhetorics it was obvious already that you're pretty young. And btw, monkey's brain structure develops and reaches maximum level much faster than that of humans. So if you're fully mature at 15 already, I wouldn't brag about it in your place.

somebody was watching the discovery channel..

quote:

Originally posted by Viber you are so stupid that you cant think about an original burn. and Btw:i forgat to say how much i hate you today,so,i hate you!

dude relax u dont need to get angry...we all kno hes a loser.

he posts fake quotes all the fuking time but then when i gave him a taste of his own medicine in my sig he complained to his TA buddys and they edited my sig but not his sig or quotes lol

wow cyrusqueen thats really cool man...i wish i had cool TA back on my side hahahahaha how can i be as cool as you??? hahahahaha

whata loser!!!!

dont argue with him just amke fun of him he likes to argue

quote:

Originally posted by Viber somebody was watching the discovery channel..

I guess you could call me a local popular science nerd

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik dude relax u dont need to get angry...we all kno hes a loser. he posts fake quotes all the fuking time but then when i gave him a taste of his own medicine in my sig he complained to his TA buddys and they edited my sig but not his sig or quotes lol wow cyrusqueen thats really cool man...i wish i had cool TA back on my side hahahahaha how can i be as cool as you??? hahahahaha whata loser!!!! dont argue with him just amke fun of him he likes to argue

ok,send him my hate in the next time you"ll visit him in the Zoo

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian First, there is no "disputed". I've already addressed this. It's OCCUPIED. Ask your prime minister.

Well if you'd like to know this is what my prime minster says; "the Palestinian territories remain "disputed" land" ( http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/27/mideast/ )

The thing is regardless how you term it you must understand no one expects Israel to give the entire area back. It is understood Israel is to have defensible boarders -> The accord Barak and Clinton were working on was to give portions of Israeli land to offset these claims, however the Palestinian Authorithy refused this, in addition to almost every other aspect of the proposal offered to them at that time.

But as many see it the dispute stems from this; Israel captured this land in a war of self-defense for its survival. It has kept the land so far for two primary purposes;
1) Its Security
2) Historical justifications for rights to the land

quote:

Get rid of your extremist mentality. The West Bank is Palestinian land. And if you disagree, then it's not wonder your country is so hated.

At least I have a country

quote:

Second, we never had a military. It was other arab countries that fought for us in previous wars.

Ya and you never had a Palestinian people either.. but no one seems to bring up that point. The "Palestinian" people fought for these Arab countries in these previous wars and still lost, this was the point I was making. Before you were Palestinians, you were Arabs, and it were the Arab armies that fought Israel numerous times, and were defeated at each instance. It was the failure of the Arab armies to use expensive military hardware properly that led them to grow cheap fantics do conduct a gurellia like war instead.

quote:

Either way it doesn't matter if we had one or not, point is we dont' have one now and therefore we will resist by other means.

How come you guys never tried non-violence?

quote:

Fourth, I don't give a shit what reason Israel is taking trees for

... ya and then why would you expect me to give a shit when you complain that we take the trees?

You have to understand and accept the other sides valid points before any peace will come about. Its a mentality like the one you posess, that we are right and it doesn't matter what is before, or why this is happening or why that exists, but that we are right regardless that leads to the violence in the middle east and will be its undoing.

It does matter why the Palestinians don't have an army - it is important to know the valid claims BOTH sides have for the land - it is important to know why Palestinian have different license plates - it is important to understand why Israel has to remove olive tress from land.

When you finally decide to examine the cause of things, instead of their effects you might come to a better understanding of the dynamics of the middle east and come to an acecptable moderated mentality that is conducive to peace. Not a give all or take all approach.

But I believe the majority of the Palestinian people think just like you... you have an all or nothing approach. And so Israel is building a wall, and you will be left with nothing. Perhaps once this sinks in, that indeed compromise, negotiation and understanding, and not blame and violence are the only ways to lead to a liveable circumstance.

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik hahaha i knew it would stick!!! hahahahahaha

Melech_Mike.. my wife.. actually coined the "insult"... dont claim you did.

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik dude relax u dont need to get angry...we all kno hes a loser. he posts fake quotes all the fuking time but then when i gave him a taste of his own medicine in my sig he complained to his TA buddys and they edited my sig but not his sig or quotes lol wow cyrusqueen thats really cool man...i wish i had cool TA back on my side hahahahaha how can i be as cool as you??? hahahahaha whata loser!!!! dont argue with him just amke fun of him he likes to argue

HAHAHAHAAHAHHHAHA.. it looks like i really pissed you off.. you cant stand that you HAD to change you sig.. i had my way.. and thats the point...

Its ok,,, you dont have to cry about it...

Next time you know to not pull shit out of you mouth about me and stick it in your sig.... cuz you be banned like my BITCH!!!!

i didnt have to do anything u moron, it was deleted...but cool man...wow uve got some internet nerd back...thats cool. maybe they can beat the shit out of me with their megabits. on this forum is the only place u can get your way and thats sad...and funny...but certainly not cause for anger. lol

the only thing sadder...AND FUNNIER than your nerdy friends is the WEAKNESS of your kind.

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik the only thing sadder...AND FUNNIER than your nerdy friends is the WEAKNESS of your kind.

Some words of warning ... don't be racist. It won't be tolerated for very long. Even if you aren't, the burden is on you to not be misconstrued as such.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Some words of warning ... don't be racist. It won't be tolerated for very long. Even if you aren't, the burden is on you to not be misconstrued as such.

?? I wasn't being racist, and I don't apreciate the allegation. I meant people who use the internet as a way to make their dick seem longer than 2.6 centimeters.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Some words of warning ... don't be racist. It won't be tolerated for very long. Even if you aren't, the burden is on you to not be misconstrued as such.

Hes been banned before becuase of his pathetic and racist remarks in the toronto forums.

Dont mindhim.. he needs internet attention.

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik the only thing sadder...AND FUNNIER than your nerdy friends is the WEAKNESS of your kind.

HAHAHAHA.. listen, the only thing funnier in my eyes is that you are so consumed in trying to make me feel like shit over the internet. For all i care... you can continue to flame me all you want.. but it wont affect me.... call me nerd, fag whatever you want... it doesnt bother me one bit. I actually laugh that a person behind a computer like you is actually trying to make me feel bad... hahhhaahha.. continue your futile shit....

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