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-- Canadian Society, Political Correctness etc..
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quote:

Originally posted by jdjd so then what's your point? if you think its true then why hide it?

I'm not hiding it, I'm agreeing with you... I'm saying your reaction is very politically incorrect but you're probably right.

I don't see what your problem is?

aaaaaaaaaaaah!

can we transform this thread in a "sexy ladies pics" for durafei!

all this discussion gave me a headache

North America is such a sex-obsessed society..

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I'm sorry, but where does the charter guarantee a "right to a comfortable environment?" You're saying one person's morals outweighs the morals of 20 other people? Why, because those 20 other people are all men? I'm not seeing how, just because SHE says they crossed the line, it means that they DID cross it. If several women who routinely used the lab had complained about this, then I could understand... but one girl, who rarely uses it? Come on... This is a very cynical and, I'm sure many would say, inappropriate response to the issue, but I'm sorry to say I think it's probably true. P.S. It's censorship!!

Durefei never respended how he knows who the personwwas who tattled. So then obviously you won't know how often this person uses the lab now would you? You're always making up shit. For all you know, there is no girl, some prof walked by and complained.

FUCK...how could i have missed this topic!?!?!?!
anywayz yes i support u the society is magically fucked up/1!!!! its unbelievable and i could write a damn essay on it..for whoever doesnt understand should visit europe or some other continent for a while..and then come back here..

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik Durefei never respended how he knows who the personwwas who tattled. So then obviously you won't know how often this person uses the lab now would you? You're always making up shit. For all you know, there is no girl, some prof walked by and complained.

Ok...you lost me....why bring something hypothetical into this debate? Obviously it was a women, because if it was a teacher Durefei wouldn't have felt the need to post when it would have been made clear from the get go...
Next question...

And what is the caption at the bottom of the poster?

Kiss
by Tanya Chalkin

It seems to me that if it was in good taste then that caption should explain a lot of things...is it art after all?
Tanya Chalkin seems to think so...but then again, she is listed as an "Erotic Photographer" so I can see the University's point...

It's all very subjective indeed...but the University has a job to do...and thats to (steal your money) provide an education.
Hey, don't let school intefere with your education...

I'm not biased at all....

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik If she doesn't use the lab, then how did she see it?

Some more clarifications. This is a lab, not a lecture hall. Due to high demands of this course, our class is THE ONLY class that's allowed to use it. There is a lock on the door, and only students of the class know the combination.

She saw it through the window(the door to this lab has a window)

I know that it was a HER to complained about us, because on our local newsgroup discussion a person to whom the complaint was first addressed, posted that it was a woman that complained.


Some arguments that come up on our newsgroup is that there are not enough women in CS as it is, and this poster makes things even worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Some more clarifications. This is a lab, not a lecture hall. Due to high demands of this course, our class is THE ONLY class that's allowed to use it. There is a lock on the door, and only students of the class know the combination. She saw it through the window(the door to this lab has a window) I know that it was a HER to complained about us, because on our local newsgroup discussion a person to whom the complaint was first addressed, posted that it was a woman that complained. Some arguments that come up on our newsgroup is that there are not enough women in CS as it is, and this poster makes things even worse.

Move the poster out of view from the window... simplest solution.

quote:

Originally posted by Slag Move the poster out of view from the window... simplest solution.

That's the first thing we did. However they still aren't happy !

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei That's the first thing we did. However they still aren't happy !

Thats bullshit then, since nobody else goes in the room.

quote:

Originally posted by Slag Thats bullshit then, since nobody else goes in the room.

Since nobody else supposed to go to that room would be more correct. There are tons of people passing through that lab every day actually. Real time is a well known course among those who actually care, so people who dont take this class come in once in a while to have a look what people are doing.
But even then, the situation is just ridiculous! I always thought that one of the implications of democracy is "open minded society". Somehow I dont see it happening at all...

Interesting direction this thread has taken.

I haven't read through everyone's responses, but I see that the issue of art censorship has come up. Just last week, myself and two classmates did a presentation on an art censorship issue for the Art Gallery of Ontario, and their decision to display a certain controversial exhibit. See, the AGO has a duty to stand up against art censorship - it is a cornerstone in Toronto's art community. Besides, people who deem the exhibit is "smut" can choose to not go see it. The university, however, has only the responsibility of acting in the interests of its students, and when those interests oppose, to make decisions that strike an appropriate balance between the interests of the students.

The issue in this case is the rights of the men who enjoy the poster vs the rights of the girl who complained. From what I understand, she HAS to see this poster everytime she goes to class, does she not?

By taking the poster down, the university is not forcing you to NEVER look at it again. You can have it up in your home or whatever other PRIVATE space you have. But by keeping the poster up, you force her to be subject to it every single time she has class. So the university would essentially be forcing her into an uncomfortable educational environment. It's not up to you or to the university to decide whether her feelings are valid or worthy of attention. The university has a responsibility to balance the issues of the students.

I doubt that if you, as a single individual, felt uncomfortable about something, would appreciate being ignored just because you weren't part of majority opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper From what I understand, she HAS to see this poster everytime she goes to class, does she not?

no.
she isnt in this class.
and she cant use the room as its locked and she isnt a part of the class with the combo.

quote:

Originally posted by j_spot no. she isnt in this class. and she cant use the room as its locked and she isnt a part of the class with the combo.

So who, in total, goes into that classroom?

Durafei's 20 classmates, their instructor - but surely they don't have sole use of the lab 24/7.

From what I gather, no one who actually used the room minded the poster. Objectively, the poster is much tamer than the images one might find on page 3 of a British tabloid. It sounds like the whole thing started when this woman happened to see the poster through the window. No one forced her to see it--she can always choose not to look through the window when she passes by. The poster is not inflammatory and does not encourage violence against anyone, so it cannot be construed as hate speech. And the whole issue of the university being publicly funded is irrelevant, since this would not have been an issue if the poster had been hanging in a dorm room. On the other hand, the department does have the right to control what is or is not allowed in its workspaces, so even if the poster is not obscene, the department can forbid it nonetheless.

I'm also curious if there would have been an issue if the image had been heterosexual. It could be an interesting experiment.

quote:

Originally posted by las3rjock I'm also curious if there would have been an issue if the image had been heterosexual. It could be an interesting experiment.

HAHA!!!

and put it in the exact same spot so she can 'see' it...

Oh man...that's just mean, but I like it!

[EDIT] In fact...here's one..

^ hahaha, I'm loving it... do it!

I still think jdjd hit the nail on the head. If she was offended in a moral sense, then she might have a case, but if she was just pissed off in a personal sense (like many people get when they're dateless and see members of the opposite sex drooling over models), then she should've kept her mouth shut. Obviously we'll never know which sense she was offended in, but I think one has to keep both possibilities in mind.

Whoever complained was in no way being forced to look at that picture. She doesn't have to stare into the lab on her way to class, if she was even on her way to class! In order to see a poster through the window, she must have been taking a good look inside that lab, which one might go so far as to say she had no business doing anyway - do you peek into other people's lectures long enough to identify everything that's on the walls, when you don't even have any classes in that room?

Las3rjock makes the best point I think... the university does have the right to control what gets put in its workspaces. I just find it silly that they caved in to the complainant so easily.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Durafei's 20 classmates, their instructor - but surely they don't have sole use of the lab 24/7.

Yes, we do. The only other people allowed in the lab are janitors, and they didn't complain. As Ortemy mentioned there are other people passing through the lab - but these are friends of people in lab, who are just curious to see what we are working on or just visiting.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei As I said earlier, there are no girls in our class. If I walked by a poster of two men kissing I probably would've felt uncomfortable and probably pissed, but definitely not offended. And I sure as hell would not complain.

I would complain... because not many people would like to see 2 guys kissing while they're working, but I know a lot of people (male and female) would love to see 2 girls kissing. In this society, you either love vagina, or you're gay. I've got no problem with either one, but I'd still prefer the females...

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Serb I would complain... because not many people would like to see 2 guys kissing while they're working

He said that the only people who ever actually work in the lab are guys - anyone else would just be a visitor. So how does that analogy apply to this situation?

Also, I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up yet, but I was just thinking: If people who regularly use a lab decide to put a picture up that you think is inappropriate, don't you think the mature thing to do would be to talk to those people about how you think it's inappropriate, and ask them to take it down, rather than "tattle" to the university authorities?

quote:

Originally posted by jdjd i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot... what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

thats the only true point anyone has said in this discussion

the university just cares about its reputation and doesnt want trouble, who cares if the 20 guys had a right to put it up, if people are going to complain (even if its unjust) theyre gonna force them to take it down so they dont get in any trouble, thats the bottom line.

as for the rest of you people arguing, its like trying to prove that the colour red is better then green, you can make as many points as u want but its not gonna mean anything

i wonder whhat this fugly girl would do if she was at our ryerson frosh week...got alotta extremely sexually active women there who kiss each other for kicks.....


EDIT: the poster discussed in this thread is artistic in nature and not pornographic.

there is no nudity/semi-nudity

it is a PG pic...maybe shes under 13..hmmm


art cannot be deemed as offensive....if it were, why isnt she complaining bout michealangelo's painting of man trying to reach out and touch God??it could be seriously deemed offencive since God is depicted with a face there and nobody knows how God looks..besides...teh man is absolutely naked

^^ "The Creation of Man"..
yeah, we can talk up a storm here about controvercial artists like him and thousand others including Bosch, Bruegel, Goya, Valasquez, Gauguin, Toulouse-Lautrec, Klimt, Picasso, Dali......... just a few that came to my mind.. who just used their art as an expression, yet I believe none of them was offensive.
And just as she has the right to complain, you have a right to put it on the wall.

ahhh DALI!!

I'll never forgive you for that

Yeah, I wonder would they find this poster offensive? It has a half-naked women on it! Sexual contest! Pathetic!

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