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-- you know what's ironic?
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Originally posted by wienerschnitzel i think that alot of people have made marriage a joke, which is unfortunate. However, just because some people make poor judgement doesn't mean i am going to give up on marrige. My parents have been happily married for 27 years now. Not everyone ends up in divorce. Besides, what if i was a married woman but my husband brutally beat me everyday, what am i supposed to do? Or what if i was married and my husband went around raping children all day? I think there are exeptions. When i go into my marrige i will do so with the full intention of spending the rest of my life with this person and remain faithful to them. I don't think there is anything illogical about that.

I definitely agree with what you're saying and it's certainly nicer to see a person having such views rather than the lately popular "let's fuck with everything that moves" ones. I have not tried to refute you on these issues, however. What I have tried to say is that marriage is just a formalization of a decision for commitment made earlier by both partners. If both partners decide to spend the rest of their lives together, getting married will not change that. Earlier in history it was a far reaching decision because it emphasized the commitment by making it unbreakable. Now, since the commitment officially is breakable, it's just a nice way to show others you want a long relationship with your spouse. Of course it is better to have the divorce than to be constrained for life. When you're in love you're not 100% objective about your partner, so these things can backlash on you when you least expect it. It's certainly good to have the ability to back down in such situations. The only thing you can be blamed for if something like that happens though is short-sightedness.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that with marriage made a formality sex is ok if both you and your partner are commited for a lifelong relationship, regardless of getting married or not. There, I hope that makes it clear that even though our reasons and backgrounds are as different as they can be (I'm an urban atheist kid that's always been trendy and around with most popular kids during school age), I agree 100% agree with you in substance, although not as much in form.

Btw, you still haven't told me where you've gotten that hot chick's picture

which hot chick? that sick neked pic i posted of that old nasty oma? I hope that isn't the one you are talking about but if it is i just cut and paste it from another thread.

i see where you are comming from with the marriage deal. We have to remember that the purpose of marrige is to make a commitment to God to be united and lovely and all marrige like. So being atheist your views are perfectly understandble.

man i really hope your not talking about that nasty old lady.

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Originally posted by wienerschnitzel We have to remember that the purpose of marrige is to make a commitment to God to be united and lovely and all marrige like.

hmm, I dare to disagree tho I'm not a religious man. The purpouse of marriage is to make a commitment to your mate for the rest of your existance (terrenal and post-mortem), taking god's blessing, and having god as witness.

If you want sexually commitment with god you gotta go for celibacy(spelling?).

I don't know where virginity became so important for women before marriage, because is not that big deal for men.
But of course, it roots on christianism being a patriarch religion.

So you, as woman, stand up proudly with that, *sigh*. I'm not saying "go and have sex", I'm saying: "Keep in mind that this a men's imposition over women disguised as tradition". After considering that, and thinking it throughfully, if you still want to keep your virginity for other reasons, is fine by me, i'll even root for you. But I can't really understand your position being justified by those reasons .

quote:

"Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy."

Also, as PS: I was gonna say this before but, well, thought wasn't worth a reply, now it comes as PS

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel im not completely innocent so i have a pretty good idea what the full meal deal is like.

no, believe me, you don't. Unless going all the way it's like calling potato chips a good meal (an this comparison gets way too short)

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Originally posted by DigiNut The SCUM Manifesto Lovely, ain't it? I challenge anyone to read the whole thing in one sitting.

read about four paragraphs on that thing before cracking up. wheres that "iron my shirt bitch" picture when you need it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by electric_soul
hmm, I dare to disagree tho I'm not a religious man. The purpouse of marriage is to make a commitment to your mate for the rest of your existance (terrenal and post-mortem), taking god's blessing, and having god as witness.[QUOTE]


Then why do all marriages involve a clergyman who is invested by the power of God? And yes, the above mentioned is the majority of the marriage but you can do that without the actual ceremony. The ceremony is sealing the deal with God.

[QUOTE]So you, as woman, stand up proudly with that, *sigh*. I'm not saying "go and have sex", I'm saying: "Keep in mind that this a men's imposition over women disguised as tradition". After considering that, and thinking it throughfully, if you still want to keep your virginity for other reasons, is fine by me, i'll even root for you. But I can't really understand your position being justified by those reasons .[QUOTE]

Other reasons being:
i think sex is something very personal with me and although alot of people disagree i want to share it with only one person.
I also don't want any risk of std's or pregnancy even though this can be accomplished with safe sex. The safest sex is no sex.
Also, i have only made 2 goals in my entire life, one was to go to europe, in which i have not fulfiled, two was to wait until marriage to have sex, i feel as though i have issues following through with things and so at the very least i am going to follow through with those two things.



[QUOTE]no, believe me, you don't. Unless going all the way it's like calling potato chips a good meal (an this comparison gets way too short)[QUOTE]

fair enough!

sorry my quoting skillz suck

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Originally posted by moncster This

am i the only one who thought that was funny?

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Originally posted by wienerschnitzel man i really hope your not talking about that nasty old lady.

I could be wrong, but I'm *pretty* sure he's talking about the one in your avatar (i.e. you).

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Originally posted by wienerschnitzel which hot chick? that sick neked pic i posted of that old nasty oma? I hope that isn't the one you are talking about but if it is i just cut and paste it from another thread. i see where you are comming from with the marriage deal. We have to remember that the purpose of marrige is to make a commitment to God to be united and lovely and all marrige like. So being atheist your views are perfectly understandble. man i really hope your not talking about that nasty old lady.

You know, marriages exist outside of church as well. All you need to do is to sign a contract at the local court or whatever, and that's about it. So you don't have to necessarilly see marriage as a religious ceremony, you can also percieve it as a social one, one where two partners display their commitment to each other to themselves and the rest of the community.

PS. While sex is quite a pleasurable activity, I think it's been mystified too much. I'd say if you had a glimpse of it now, you can have a pretty good idea on how the whole thing is like.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I could be wrong, but I'm *pretty* sure he's talking about the one in your avatar (i.e. you).

Nah, she does look ok, but that old lady is the woman I want to bang. You can't beat that many years of experience :

if thats the case, he's a tricky ricky. If that is the case let me know.

BTG- here is something that normal people wouldn't admit to but i am shameless so i will. I was lying in bed this morning thinking "what the hell is the deal with that iron thread... and then i finally realized (after much consideration) why it was funny.
im a n00b

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel Then why do all marriages involve a clergyman who is invested by the power of God?

Clergy is the generic term used to describe the formal religious leadership within a given religion.
Depending on the religion, clergy usually take care of the ritual aspects of the religious life, teach or otherwise help in spreading the religion's doctrine. They often deal with life-cycle events such as childbirth, circumcision, coming of age ceremonies, marriage, and death. Clergy of most faiths work outside formal houses of worship, and can be found working in hospitals, nursing homes, missions, armies, etc.


No power of god invested.

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Other reasons being: i think sex is something very personal with me and although alot of people disagree i want to share it with only one person.

That's the best reason IMO. Some want to share it with the entire world, some with just 1/2 (the opposite sex half), some with just a couple thousands,
some with none. Saying one, ten, or three thousands is the same, just a matter of quantity. What I don't get is the stretch in the life time, but is rouglhy justified by the wait for "the one". Kinda blue prince stuff for me, but it's ok .

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I also don't want any risk of std's or pregnancy even though this can be accomplished with safe sex. The safest sex is no sex.

AIDS and other diseases analysis. If everything OK: Pills, and there you go, as safe as it can be. And the real deal, no rubber. Controlled pregnancy, too.

quote:

Also, i have only made 2 goals in my entire life [...]two was to wait until marriage to have sex

Another good reason, not that I share any of them, but if you believe so, go for it.

HAhahaha im glad i look OK. IF you want to find more of the other beauty just type in 'old lady porn' or something in google. Im sure you won't come up empty handed. And i forgot about that other legal marrige stuff. I guess we are somewhat both right.

Im actually planning on writing a manifesto on how womens liberation fucked up the world. It just made women screwed up(er) and men feel the backlash of it. I yearn for the days of smackin a girl on the ass and sayin "thanks toots." Alas, women want to be men, and men want to be women...its a sad sad world.

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Originally posted by Orbax Im actually planning on writing a manifesto on how womens liberation fucked up the world. It just made women screwed up(er) and men feel the backlash of it. I yearn for the days of smackin a girl on the ass and sayin "thanks toots." Alas, women want to be men, and men want to be women...its a sad sad world.

Very right, but women don't want to be men... they're just taught that they should be and think they want it.

When people say "women don't know what they want", women think it's a slant on their gender - it's not, it stems from the way people are brainwashed by society into fighting their instincts and trying to achieve goals that will ultimately leave them unsatisfied.

Orbax, if you want a co-editor, give me a shout.

By the way, you might want to have a look at www.savethemales.ca . IMO, it debunks some popular myths in a very non-confrontational way. The guy has some other... well, controversial political views, but just read the stuff on feminism.

and if u want an extreme activist give me a shout...ill come equipped with my pimpin cane and a ring for each finger for my back hands

i didn't get the iron thing

maybe I don't get it cause english is not my native tongue and something slips away from me ?

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Im actually planning on writing a manifesto on how womens liberation fucked up the world. It just made women screwed up(er) and men feel the backlash of it. I yearn for the days of smackin a girl on the ass and sayin "thanks toots." Alas, women want to be men, and men want to be women...its a sad sad world.

Actually it just started what should have started in the very beginning of mankind.
Men just took a predominant position leaveing women in the shades. So angry women is kinda natural

It's just till it gets all balanced, take a seat, wait, and then enjoy a world of real equality, at least on the genders aspect.

/me is looking forward to it, too bad i'm pretty sure i'll never see that.

PS: what was this thread originally about?

quote:

Originally posted by electric_soul Actually it just started what should have started in the very beginning of mankind. Men just took a predominant position leaveing women in the shades. So angry women is kinda natural

Please elaborate. Where's your evidence of this?

Before sticking to your principles and believing whatever it is you've been taught, look at the information out there.

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel sorry my quoting skillz suck

add the / on the end ones

I guess i'm different from the majority of men, I'm so fed up of being judged on appearance, yes i am overweight, i'm also allergic to a lot of 'healthy' foods like fish rice pasta & potatoes so that makes it hard to eat & feel full without overdoing it. I also do believe in Marriage, and would like to find sum1 who loves me as I am, and tho it probably won't happen, im not going to give things to ppl who aren't worth it, people who judge on peformance and not love, yes marriage doesn't always work, but if u go into it thinking that it never will, so If i ever get there i wanna make it work & will do everything i can do to make so

wtf, ppl, you hijacked my thread and turned it into an anti-feminist discussion... wtf!

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Originally posted by whiskers wtf, ppl, you hijacked my thread and turned it into an anti-feminist discussion... wtf!

Hey now, there's a difference between a hijack and a natural progression...

elaborating... *sigh*, kinda long.

First of all. I've been taught little. I don't go/didn't go to college. I just read a lot.

quote:

"Actually it just started what should have started in the very beginning of mankind."

Ancient mithology/paganism has ramifications, mainly Matriarchal and Patriarchal, some little cases of balanced ones.

Roughly speaking, patriarchal tribes were more war-like, than the other two kinds, and took the main role by force.
That's a huge different background to start with.

Mythology books I enjoyed:
Universal Root Myths by Silo (doesn't give any light to this topic, but it's a great book)
Goddess and Gods of Old Europe by Marija Gimbutas

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"Men just took a predominant position leaveing women in the shades. So angry women is kinda natural "

A little example: women can vote since less than a century, if that's not being in the shade... (by law, my god, what an awful species is mankind, men for taking that kind of position, and women for allowing them to do so)

In the same fashion as young people when is emancipated, that wants to do all what they want, mocking of their past "rulers" (parents), women are slowly freeing themselves from Men patronage. So it's kinda natural that they do whacky things (as to think men are unnecesary and stuff like that).

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It's just till it gets all balanced, take a seat, wait, and then enjoy a world of real equality, at least on the genders aspect.

Actually, that's my hope. Mankind has proven unbendable in some cases, willing to fight back even in the worst situations, and utterly submisive others, accepting it all, even for centuries. I surely hope that women do their best to claim the half of the world that belong to them, and then share it with us men, and we share our half with them. I already try to share my space with the women that come along my path.

For me as human being, I look forward to the day whole humanity get along. Men and women getting along is one of the major steps that, IMHO, mankind *must* take in it's pathway to a brighter future.

Also I hate violence. Discrimination in my scale of values is violent, not physical but psychological. Women are one of the main targets for discrimination world-wide, which makes this world, so wicked.

The sad thing is that women are so used to the world ruled by men, that even argue on behalf of men.

Treat others as you would like to be treated


PS: whiskers, sorry. my bad.

quote:

Originally posted by electric_soul PS: whiskers, sorry. my bad.

whatever, as long as it's not a "pics or stfu" discussion, whatever floats your boat. intelligent discussion is great, although too much of it, as well of too much of almost anything, could be a little headachey

*sigh* indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by electric_soul A little example: women can vote since less than a century, if that's not being in the shade... (by law, my god, what an awful species is mankind, men for taking that kind of position, and women for allowing them to do so)

And how many women DO vote? The answer might surprise you. Also, the number of women I have personally spoken to who go to the elections with little to no knowledge of who they're voting for (just the ads they saw on TV) absolutely sickens me, I seriously don't think such people should be allowed to vote.

Having said that, I'm not saying that women shouldn't be allowed to vote - I'm in agreement with you here that such law was probably unfair. However, it was redemied decades ago, so what exactly is your point?

quote:

In the same fashion as young people when is emancipated, that wants to do all what they want, mocking of their past "rulers" (parents), women are slowly freeing themselves from Men patronage. So it's kinda natural that they do whacky things (as to think men are unnecesary and stuff like that).

No. Feminism accomplished what the naive women thought it was intended to accomplish (such as voting, workplace ethics, etc.) years ago. Women "freed" themselves from "Men patronage" decades ago. The only problem is, just as in the case of Affirmative Action, certain women with a personal agenda (i.e. not your average lady) continue to cry bondage and discrimination and essentially trivialize men and make us the objects.

I would seriously like to know what you're basing this statement of "slowly freeing themselves" on - it has no factual basis, it's just programmed societal dogma. If you can give one clear and objective example of how women are still not "free", I'd like to hear it.

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I surely hope that women do their best to claim the half of the world that belong to them

Therein lies the problem with your thinking and with so many others. In fact, I find this mode of thought so totally outrageous that it actually makes me angry. Assuming that half the population actually is women (roughly), how does that logically imply that they lay claim to half the world (whatever that even means)??

If half a city's population is women, does that automatically mean that women should possess half the available jobs? Whatever happened to hiring the most qualified people? I mean, can you not see how utterly outrageous this idea is? There is one single word to describe what you're talking about, and that word is communism!

And I'd still like to know what "half the world" is to "claim." You're spouting bland platitudes that have no real-life meaning, can you not be any more specific than this?

quote:

For me as human being, I look forward to the day whole humanity get along. Men and women getting along is one of the major steps that, IMHO, mankind *must* take in it's pathway to a brighter future.

Men and women got along just fine before feminism came about. That is the very thing which has destroyed so many relationships between the two.

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Also I hate violence.

What's your point?

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Discrimination in my scale of values is violent, not physical but psychological.

Psychological violence? What kind of talk is that? Emotional abuse, maybe, but I can assure you that such abuse happens equally within the genders as it does between the genders.

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Women are one of the main targets for discrimination world-wide

No, they're not. Once again, prove it.

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The sad thing is that women are so used to the world ruled by men, that even argue on behalf of men.

Once again, your reasoning for this is...?

Bloody hell, there's no logic whatsoever in this... it's like the Creationist arguments, it's just a bunch of dogma and specious reasoning!

PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUAL. Inequality between two things does NOT imply the "betterness" of one, it simply implies difference. There are no lines to read between, there is nothing more to it than meets the eye. Claiming such things to be equal when they are not is, quite simply, communism, and hence it should surprise no one that the feminist movement had such close ties to the communists.

FFS, I hate this kind of logic so much, after spending the last 3 years with engineers, I'd forgotten that it existed. How can people be so unwilling to question their beliefs, so fixed in what they've been taught by such dubious authorities? Doesn't it ever occur to people that they might have overlooked something?

Electric Soul, you mind if I quote ye in my book?

Also, to be blunt, women arent as good as men. Am I wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUAL. Inequality between two things does NOT imply the "betterness" of one, it simply implies difference. There are no lines to read between, there is nothing more to it than meets the eye. Claiming such things to be equal when they are not is, quite simply, communism, and hence it should surprise no one that the feminist movement had such close ties to the communists. FFS, I hate this kind of logic so much, after spending the last 3 years with engineers, I'd forgotten that it existed. How can people be so unwilling to question their beliefs, so fixed in what they've been taught by such dubious authorities? Doesn't it ever occur to people that they might have overlooked something?

just out of curiousity, how old are you?

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