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-- most unconventional and original trance track 2003
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quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance The way he sampled Psychofuk is exactly what's so great about Traffic. The buildup and breakdown is very subtle, but you're misunderstanding what I mean with subtle. With subtle I mean the cadential progressions, the incorportation of the trance ethos into the simple minimal melody, which are factors that are actually not present in Psychofuk.

There is nothing subtle with neither the breakdown or the buildup. The buildup consists of nothing but a simple layering of kick, bass and effects before the breakdown, which again consists of nothing but the extremely sloppily made kickdrum and the synths fading in in the most standard trance way ever. I see no subtlety in these elements whatsoever, and pretty sure you could find the same type of "cadential progressions" (and please drop the fancy wordplay, you're not impressing anyone) in some of "Fairy's" or Armin's tracks as well if you could just try to be objective for once.

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I'm 100% sure that Fairy or Armin et. al. don't have what it takes to make such an effective dancefloor stormer.

Oh, I think many here on TA would beg to differ.

Sorry for the derogatory remark btw, I just find the way you praise Traffic way out of proportion to be extremely annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper There is nothing subtle with neither the breakdown or the buildup. The buildup consists of nothing but a simple layering of kick, bass and effects before the breakdown, which again consists of nothing but the extremely sloppily made kickdrum and the synths fading in in the most standard trance way ever. I see no subtlety in these elements whatsoever, and pretty sure you could find the same type of "cadential progressions" (and please drop the fancy wordplay, you're not impressing anyone) in some of "Fairy's" or Armin's tracks as well if you could just try to be objective for once.

It's not fancy wordplay, i'm not trying to impress anyone. When I'm talking about cadential progressions I actually mean something very concrete in terms of music theory. That's how I appreciate and value music, I can't help it. I can get more specific if you want.

The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant. The end result is what I consider a gem, which I have adored ever since I heard it at the TMF Awards and no one knew it was a Tiesto production.

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Oh, I think many here on TA would beg to differ.

So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance It's not fancy wordplay, i'm not trying to impress anyone. When I'm talking about cadential progressions I actually mean something very concrete in terms of music theory. That's how I appreciate and value music, I can't help it. I can get more specific if you want. The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant. The end result is what I consider a gem, which I have adored ever since I heard it at the TMF Awards and no one knew it was a Tiesto production. So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

GEEK!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant.

That doesn't change the fact that the whole synth sequence sounds like a random synth bashing session from Tiesto on his keyboards until he finds a combination of notes that have a decent harmonic flow, which he then proceeds to smother in FX in order to give it as big an impact on a massive sound system as possible when it is hammering out at the end of the respective bars in the track. Granted, it works quite well, but it is by no means subtle nor genious. I think you are grossly overestimating your favourite producer, as he has no classical background whatsoever to figure out these glorious progressions that you speak so highly of.

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So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

Yes, and I'm disputing them. Just like the people I mentioned would dispute your statement:

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I'm 100% sure that Fairy or Armin et. al. don't have what it takes to make such an effective dancefloor stormer

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper That doesn't change the fact that the whole synth sequence sounds like a random synth bashing session from Tiesto on his keyboards until he finds a combination of notes that has a decent harmonic flow, which he then proceeds to smother in FX in order to give it as big an impact on a massive sound system as possible when it is hammering out at the end of the respective bars in the track. Granted, it works quite well, but it is by no means subtle nor genious.

Well, my point is that it is not a random synth bashing session. It is actually a pretty well thought out product of artistic creativity. Yes, he finds a combo of notes that have a decent harmonic flow (because he has never studied actual music theory) and his own ear led him to create a piece of work, that in MY own personal perspective as a musician, is a very impressive musical product. The technical quality of production might not be all that (just like his mixing), but I certainly find the musicianship in this to be brilliant for the reasons I already stated.

Frankly, trance is not my favorite genre of edm right now. But stuff like this is what makes it refreshing. I listen to those other superstar guys in dutch trancedom and they don't impress me at all, not even close. Maybe I was brainwashed, maybe I'm ignorant, maybe I'm deaf. But I can't help having this opinion. Sorry.

how bout

Skin - Faithfulness (Tiesto Remix)

love the part where the synths come in all crazy

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance It's definitely much closer to what trance was intended to be when it was created than any of the stale formulaic 72-measure breakdown shit that you probably consider as trance. It's all about the minimalist hypnotic repetition of simple melodic patterns with complex harmonic layering and the use of deceptive cadences to captivate the listener and enhance the experience. And structurally speaking, if you really think that Traffic is not trance then I recommend that you get schooling from someone that has a clue.

so you know what trance was intended to be huh? please tell me whose intentions these were?

traffic is basically an emotionless tune thats good to use between deeper tunes, but its still good at keeping the crowd hyped up...
all that shit you were saying described 10 seconds of the song, big deal... the rest of it is pretty stale

quote:

Originally posted by jdjd so you know what trance was intended to be huh? please tell me whose intentions these were? traffic is basically an emotionless tune thats good to use between deeper tunes, but its still good at keeping the crowd hyped up... all that shit you were saying described 10 seconds of the song, big deal... the rest of it is pretty stale

trance was originally hypnotic and repetitive music, it did not have 3 minute breakdowns back in the day. whatever, this discussion is done.

are you guys nuts? all of Ferry Corsten's productions sound similar...


Yunus Guvenen - Mass Schizophrenia
DoGu Dimmez - Possible

without a doubt hands down... no questions asked.... go download and see why its the most original... the man prides himself on being the most original and unpredictable
if you want extremely original.... get yunus guvenen's 34bpm proton radio [02-Nov.-2003] set... and listen to

Pig & Dan - Cookies
Soul Mekanik - Electric Elephant

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance It is ultimately brilliant, no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance maybe I'm ignorant

*ding ding ding*

What have we got for him Johnny?!

quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental *ding ding ding* What have we got for him Johnny?!

why do people have to get personal? wtf is wrong with humanity??

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance why do people have to get personal? wtf is wrong with humanity??

Well to say that "no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out" is very ignorant, don't you agree?

I mean, have you heard every producer's work? No?

I rest my case...

quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental Well to say that "no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out" is very ignorant, don't you agree? I mean, have you heard every producer's work? No? I rest my case...

in context, i'm referring to the use of that specific sample-Psychofuk. it fitted tiesto's new style perfectly. it certainly wouldn't have been the same had it been worked by someone else (duh).

anyways, that's just my very own subjective opinion based on my taste. i don't see what's so offensive about it.

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance in context, i'm referring to the use of that specific sample-Psychofuk.

Er... No you aren't. It was in response to tor's question "how is it complex?". You were blatently speaking in general as the sample hadn't even been mention at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental Er... No you aren't. It was in response to tor's question "how is it complex?". You were blatently speaking in general as the sample hadn't even been mention at that point.

sorry, i'm not gonna read over the whole damn thread every time i post. that's besides the point. when i was talking about complexity this is what i was talking about, using the sample this way:

quote:

The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant.

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance sorry, i'm not gonna read over the whole damn thread every time i post. that's besides the point. when i was talking about complexity this is what i was talking about, using the sample this way:

Nice attempt at changing the subject, but were talking about this comment here...

"no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out"

I'm not talking about complexity. I'm not talking about technical *ahem* 'quality'. I'm talking about you making a completely ignorant comment and refusing to accept that what you said is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental Nice attempt at changing the subject, but were talking about this comment here... "no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out" I'm not talking about complexity. I'm not talking about technical *ahem* 'quality'. I'm talking about you making a completely ignorant comment and refusing to accept that what you said is wrong.

Because what I said is an opinion and just that, I never said it was a fact. Nothing else needs to be said.

James Holden - A Break in the Clouds. Personally I have yet to hear another track like it.

Mark Otten - Tranquility / Mushroom Therapy

apparently, traffic is indeed very original musically speaking..
a friend of mine who studied music theory classified traffic as being unusual in terms of chords..

however i'm not sure if that was tiesto's intention.
after all he doesn't have any musical background..

and even if it was, it's still a very dull track productionwise..

blackwatch and quiver - loveless

Hmm, must have missed this thread. Goes nicely with my trance-related whining anyhow.

Good, Innovative, Unconventional Tracks of 2003:

Ferry Corsten - Right of Way

Mauro Picotto - New Time New Place

Marco V - C:\del*.mp3

Tiesto - Traffic

John OO Fleming - New Sound

must agree with:

Matti Laamanen - Flakes (Slusnik Luna Remix)
Michel de Hey vs. Secret Cinema - Another Sweater
Yunus Guneven - Mass Schizophrenia

and a couple of other tracks that i don't enjoy a lot, but are definitely creative (Traffic, New Time New Place...)

must add:

Holden - The Wheel (Pass 1) -> not trance but something different
Choci vs. Dirtsnob - Future Is (AR52 Remix) -> damn amazing
The Gift - Love Angel (M.I.K.E Remix) -> i know most people hate this one, well i love it. and it's different enough to be on this list
Progresia - Stockholm -> including a couple of remixes
Technasia - Final Quadrant -> techno? tech-trance? find me another track that both Adam Beyer and Blank & Jones played
Rouzbeh Delavari - 020227
James Hardcourt - Diaspora

hum, that's all i can remember for now

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Mauro Picotto - New Time New Place

ahem. riccrado ferri's name should be alongside.

quote:

Originally posted by tor8024 apparently, traffic is indeed very original musically speaking.. a friend of mine who studied music theory classified traffic as being unusual in terms of chords..

thank you, that was my point.

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however i'm not sure if that was tiesto's intention. after all he doesn't have any musical background.. and even if it was, it's still a very dull track productionwise..

it sure is his intention, but he does it by ear, not by applying the theory (like James Holden and NU NRG do). the reason i've been such a tiesto addict for almost six years now is that he has an exceptional musical ear, both production and yes, mixing-wise (but that's off topic here). the greatest common factor in his productions all the way from the Stray Dog, Allure days up to the present day with Traffic/Faithfulness/Adagio rmx has been the original and unusual use of tonal melodic/harmonic progressions in the minimalist process of trance-making. these qualities are lacking
in most of the stuff that someone like Armin or Ferry produce nowadays.

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