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dont make me post some wicked tracks that are bettter than 99 stuff..cuase 2003 has been the year of trance....

i think the problem has been stated previousely. In 1999 it was much harder to get tracks, and live sets. Djs could spin the same set 2x a year (in your location) and you would only hear that set twice. But now (i know i do it) we get every single track, every single set, and rape the shit out of them. Some songs are dead even before a Dj has a chance to spin them. Then when a bunch of djs like the same songs like ATRC/Beautiful things, we hear the tracks 5 times daily, and that is to much. When i think of classic songs, they are tracks that were good, and were not played out within the first week of their release. One song that I feel is amazing is introspection, but the track will be murdered, before we even see it on vinyl. Mabe some djs like doing that so they have the upper hand. This is not only a problem in trance, but a problem in music overall. God dam internet...

I Guess 1 thing that could help trance, is if producers sat down for a longer period of time, to produce a track, and not just crank them out. Ferry said he made Punk in 5 mins, i wonder how long it took him to make gouryella/out of the blue? I mean PVD - Reflections, give me a fuckin break, some of the productions are weaker then ATB's shit. There are a bunch of ameratures on this borad that i would rather listen to, then some of the boring tunes out now.

Hard Trance/Hardstyle...

...it's the 'in' thing, now.

I've listened to Trance from '00 - '03, and I've seen a downward spiral in quality of Trance, since the end of '02, to the beginning of '03. Back in the day, my fave used to be Tiesto. Then I tune into Digitally Imported, and listened to their stations, and Hard Trance started to own me. Since then, I've driven myself towards Hard Trance/Hardstyle, and I must say, Hennes & Cold is my new fave.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt This is true. You make some good points. I'm just worried about what happens if I don't like those DJs and artists compared to trance.

according to your status, you are a progressive trance fan...progressive trance offers a much larger scope than the trance genre itself... and needless to mention that there is only a fine line between quality progressive house and quality progressive trance. you're not in such bad luck if you appreciate the prog! that's an easy way to take a break.

really, amazing music is not mass produced in any genre. the music that is and seems to keep coming out of nowhere and doing great is the most successful commercail music. hence the inaccurate equation created that makes successful, commercial music = BAD music. ( off topic - that is a flawed thinking)

there is a major problem in the fact that nothing can be "new" because it is damn old if and when it gets a release... technology has offered this great (dis)advantage that we make use of.

my thoughts for the industry should do:
i think the DJ/producer industry needs to evolve with the times.... they can't afford to have these promos that never get released. record labels need to push things quick. a song they wanna sign should be signed. that way there is no wearing out of the long awaited unreleased track! it gets the release when its new and no promos need to be leaked out.

as for djs having exclusive music, well too bad.... they'll make their own and not send promos to anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt I disagree. Trance right now is copying a very narrow range of 99-style uplifting, and is doing so with a remarkably narrow range of sounds given the technology. For example, I'm listening to Lovechild - Liberta (Moonman Remix) right now. 1999. Virtually indistinguishable from the regular Armin-style trancers of the moment.

i was very much into the scene 1999 and before... i don't see how you think trance today attempts to replicate a narrow range of 99 style trance. it has evolved in structure and sound... i think it might be safe to say those tracks that do attempt to copy that 99 structure are the unpleasing efforts of today. however there is evolved and changed trance out there which is actually good.

as for the liberta song, that was the one song i didn't like from moonman back then, who was ferry, not armin

This is a very nice discussion.

I think record labels are increasingly demanding producers to dish out club friendly tunes (big beats,smaller breakdowns,simple melodies,stale basslines etc),and there is a marked reduction in quality of production and stereotyping.

So the ones that are popular are not the ones you should look out for.

One of the tracks this year that made me think back to 1999 was
Ace's Delight - Mental Theme (Ultra Trance Mix)

and to give credit to today's producers...
i know this is tranceaddict.com which creates only extreme opinions but there are producers today who are continuing to make trance, but they keeping it interesting, doing it differently. the difference can be subtle but they are there, creating individual styles...

examples
john askew, he very much has created a nice style of his own.
nu nrg, i don't care what bashers have to say, they have a unique sound and it is banging.
second sun, totally unlike anyone else.
and then of course gabriel and dresden and others pushing the merge of progressive and energetic trance influenced dance music..
besides some of these guys, you have your lesser known producers, you never hear of them and then bang, they throw an amazing track in your face.

it's not over, its not dead. it might be at a short standstill, but like i said, good music is not mass produced and does not got come out every day. how many michelangelo's, da vinci's and van gogh's works do you know? they too did not happen every day.

welcome to Art.

quote:

Originally posted by umes23 according to your status, you are a progressive trance fan...progressive trance offers a much larger scope than the trance genre itself... and needless to mention that there is only a fine line between quality progressive house and quality progressive trance. you're not in such bad luck if you appreciate the prog! that's an easy way to take a break.

Aside from a couple productions by Holden, Sasha, Way Out West, and Gabriel and Dresden, progressive trance has been quite dead since 2000.

Sometimes I listen to progressive house as a break from trance, but that's because I like it precisely that much in proportion to trance. I could never see it taking its place, because I usually find it very boring and sleep-inducing.

quote:

i was very much into the scene 1999 and before... i don't see how you think trance today attempts to replicate a narrow range of 99 style trance. it has evolved in structure and sound... i think it might be safe to say those tracks that do attempt to copy that 99 structure are the unpleasing efforts of today. however there is evolved and changed trance out there which is actually good.

I can't give you any sort of technical answer to this, because I don't know how. I simply know from what I hear.

quote:

as for the liberta song, that was the one song i didn't like from moonman back then, who was ferry, not armin

I mentioned it precisely because it was only a standard 99 tune, nothing that special, but it would cause mass hysteria if played new on the radio today. At least in my judgment it would. And I was using Armin as a comparison; I know Ferry was Moonman.

The major problem right now is that all the "best-of-the-best" guys are trying to go mainstream (ie, appeal to as many americans as possible) to get the immense $$ that that entails. And since Trance will never be anywhere near mainstream, in my opinion they're just wasting time and putting out shitty music. But for every Bunka and Reflections album out there, there's at least 5 more good ones, either live or otherwise, you just have to look a bit harder.

If anything, I'd say you're starting to get bored with Trance, not trance is dying. You'd just rather not admit that to yourself.

The next generation of trance starts here:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...p?s=&forumid=74

Word.

some people just don't get it, headstrong if you will.

a "hands-in-the-air" anthem isn't anything to write home about. There is absolutely tons of them, until you see what pretentious garbage they are. What is to put your hands in the air about? Cos some guy changed the sample banks? That's the deviation of most of the "trance" bull thats out anymore.

Look at M.I.K.E., PVD, ARMIN, any of them; they all follow a formula so rigidly that their sound virtually hasn't changed since they began producing. How is that innovative, or artistic, or something to be impressed about? That's stagnating... Their works are very single-minded and, well shallow from a listening perspective.

Some of them are (admittedly) good, but by limiting themselves they are either doing 1 of 2 things:

a.) Suggesting people want to listen to a static music format indefinetely (milking all who follow).

b.) Suggesting that dance music is mainly disposable and it's just the people who give the music a face, not the music (means to an end).

Both of them are frighteningly familiar to the pop formula, hell it's almost a direct copy they have on their hands.

Being categorized as "trance" is probably one of the worst things you can do for your career. There is really little difference between the Ian Van Dahl bullshit that nobody can stand and the "peeveedee" music that only trancers can stand.

Look at any of the successful (sorry, in my opinion) artists that have any sort of trance based sound.

Sasha, Holden, Gabriel and Dresden, Junkie XL, Infusion, Hybrid etc...

these people ARENT LIMITING THEMSELVES TO THE SAME DAMN THING OVER AND OVER. There is inevitably commonalities (For example, G&D tend to make vocal tracks, if you doubt their vocal less production capabilities take a listen to grayarea - one for the road (G&D interstate 5 mix)) in their productions but they are overall eclectic, amd interesting

note: flame away...

The Cheeky Girls - Have A Cheeky Christmas

Now there's innovation and originality.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperFarStucker Look at M.I.K.E., PVD, ARMIN, any of them; they all follow a formula so rigidly that their sound virtually hasn't changed since they began producing. How is that innovative, or artistic, or something to be impressed about? That's stagnating... Their works are very single-minded and, well shallow from a listening perspective.

Compare Push work to Calling 'The Freak' or Dark City tracks and tell me they sound alike.

Variation people!!

If you listen to trance non-stop, you will most likely get bored. If you listen to progressive non-stop, you will also most likely get bored. However, vary your listening habits, and you will definitely come back to trance or any other genre that you considered "dead" and got tired of three months ago. It's that simple.

Also, if you really love trance as much, don't just fob it off as dead without doing the proper digging. There are enough good and diverse tracks out, but as previously stated, you just have to dig deeper to find them.

Ricky Fobis - No Regular
everything from Detox Recs.
Nu NRG - The Mind
Ferry Corsten - Rock Your Body Rock (F Massif Remix)
Rewinders - Pacific Dance
Miika Kuisma/AR52 productions
J00f stuff
Progresia - Stockholm
The That Mucho-sound

quote:

Look at M.I.K.E...follow a formula so rigidly that their sound virtually hasn't changed since they began producing

Or for that matter:

Calling The Freak - Your Time Is Up
X-Scape - T.E.B.S
new Liquid Overdose production
The Gift - Love Angel (M.I.K.E Remix)

Hell even Benni Benassi deserves a mention here. So there's a list over trance that sounds new and refreshing in my ears, and there's a lot more out there. So start broadening your taste and dig deeper, and you'll see that trance is far from dead, despite the fact that ASOT bores you. And it's funny that I never see any threads on this over prog for instance, since it has exactly the same creativity problem as trance (everything sounds dull and over-used)

too meny mediocre club trance

too meny m.i.k.e works
too

music is like fashion and this year it was prog trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Aside from a couple productions by Holden, Sasha, Way Out West, and Gabriel and Dresden, progressive trance has been quite dead since 2000.

humm, i would say exactly the opposite, since 2000 there has been loads of good progressive trance tracks.

and i have to agree with trance being most complex nowadays than in 1999. the production quality is definitely better, you can hear more layers and such. but on most cases there is almost no originallity, they just copy the 1999 formula and produce it well.

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Variation people!! If you listen to trance non-stop, you will most likely get bored. If you listen to progressive non-stop, you will also most likely get bored. However, vary your listening habits, and you will definitely come back to trance or any other genre that you considered "dead" and got tired of three months ago. It's that simple. Also, if you really love trance as much, don't just fob it off as dead without doing the proper digging. There are enough good and diverse tracks out, but as previously stated, you just have to dig deeper to find them. Ricky Fobis - No Regular everything from Detox Recs. Nu NRG - The Mind Ferry Corsten - Rock Your Body Rock (F Massif Remix) Rewinders - Pacific Dance Miika Kuisma/AR52 productions J00f stuff Progresia - Stockholm The That Mucho-sound Or for that matter: Calling The Freak - Your Time Is Up X-Scape - T.E.B.S new Liquid Overdose production The Gift - Love Angel (M.I.K.E Remix) Hell even Benni Benassi deserves a mention here. So there's a list over trance that sounds new and refreshing in my ears, and there's a lot more out there. So start broadening your taste and dig deeper, and you'll see that trance is far from dead, despite the fact that ASOT bores you. And it's funny that I never see any threads on this over prog for instance, since it has exactly the same creativity problem as trance (everything sounds dull and over-used)

yep, that's exactly the kind of trance that i like and sounds like its moving forward.

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Also, if you really love trance as much, don't just fob it off as dead without doing the proper digging. There are enough good and diverse tracks out, but as previously stated, you just have to dig deeper to find them. Ricky Fobis - No Regular everything from Detox Recs. Nu NRG - The Mind Ferry Corsten - Rock Your Body Rock (F Massif Remix) Rewinders - Pacific Dance Miika Kuisma/AR52 productions J00f stuff Progresia - Stockholm The That Mucho-sound

No, I agree that the tracks you listed are at the forefront of trance right now. I think tech-trance is where the genre needs to go. But if you look at the playlists, that's not what is getting rotation. Thus there is little incentive for more to be produced. And I don't see other talented producers shifting in this direction. Instead the uplifting is still getting hammered do death.

I somehow get the impression that people think those of us bored with most trance listen to ASOT regularly. This isn't the case, at least not for me. I listen every few weeks just to see if something new has appeared. I've been increasingly disappointed. I also shuffle my music tastes, but have needed to shuffle them more often in recent months. I see this not as a result of my tastes changing, but of increased stagnation in trance production.

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 humm, i would say exactly the opposite, since 2000 there has been loads of good progressive trance tracks.

I don't mean progressive house with some synth washes and subdued breakdowns. I mean the 98-00 style of Sasha, Seaman, Warren, etc. It's been virtually nonexistent since all those playing it moved to a deep progressive house sound, as reflected in Global Underground. There have been very few tracks of this type since late 2000 and early 2001. Exceptions include Holden & Thompson - Nothing and Cultivate - Broken Pieces.

Yes it's trailing off for sure, in part due to mp3 piracy I think. So many labels are buying cheap remixes due to dwindling revenues from small artists willing to remix almost for free to get their name out there. I am sure many are not as good as the big artists, but we're seeing few big remixes these days I think. We're seeing more and more of these 'remix competitions' so the labels get them free! I personally don't like the software synth sound either and that's getting very prominent amongst lots of the new artists because hardware synths are so expensive!

Another point due to a label's dwindling profits is that they're less willing to gamble on a tune they think might be a winner but aren't totally sure so we see less originality.

But what's the alternative? R&B/hip-hop? It's a downturn, not a death. Patience!

quote:

Originally posted by SuperFarStucker some people just don't get it, headstrong if you will. a "hands-in-the-air" anthem isn't anything to write home about. There is absolutely tons of them, until you see what pretentious garbage they are. What is to put your hands in the air about? Cos some guy changed the sample banks? That's the deviation of most of the "trance" bull thats out anymore.

Man im not one to argue at all here.. i completely agree because thats the way i feel about certain things..im on the fence about certain topics..namely this

So when read this I was thinking to myself..well sure hands in the air isnt anything to write home about.. but isnt it proved its worth?

I mean if u think about it..thats the driving force behind Trance, the euphoric breakdowns and epic buildups. Im not trying to prove you wrong.. its actually a matter of me staying up to late and thinking about all this. hehe

It seems the formula still works ( 4..or 5 years later).. so is it our "elite" status to say Trance is dead or is it the market and society to say so?


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

sorry i threw more wood on the fire here... just thinking

quote:

Originally posted by Mebot Man im not one to argue at all here.. i completely agree because thats the way i feel about certain things..im on the fence about certain topics..namely this So when read this I was thinking to myself..well sure hands in the air isnt anything to write home about.. but isnt it proved its worth? I mean if u think about it..thats the driving force behind Trance, the euphoric breakdowns and epic buildups. Im not trying to prove you wrong.. its actually a matter of me staying up to late and thinking about all this. hehe It seems the formula still works ( 4..or 5 years later).. so is it our "elite" status to say Trance is dead or is it the market and society to say so? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sorry i threw more wood on the fire here... just thinking

Hands in the air stuff is still good. Especially in the club.
But does it really have to always have the same patterns, same sawleads etc.? Tracks could easily be made hands in the air material AND sound fresh at the same time.

yes! trance is dead. and now, it's only a matter of time until powernoise dominates the entire musical scene. bwahahahahahaha

ROFL!!!!

Heres some facts (RaVerSurGe's theory ) you dont have to agree....:

Trance died early 2002 after tiesto and other were massproducing quality traxx... then it just... went downhill....

trance is in hibernation..... push and airwave are releasing new albums in 2004.... we must adapt people!!!!!

adapt to the progressive house, house, (never italian hardstyle cheez!!!!!), perhaps hardcore (i've been looking into lady dana myself).... andy other genres.... i've been very much into yunus guvenen/sultan & tonedepth/markus schulz/etc etc.... THIS IS WHY MANY SAY ITS THE YEAR OF THE PROG!... cuz trance died last year.... its just in hibernation.... A REVIVAL WILL COME!!!! and if we stick around we'll be the veterans... who lived through it... heh

go into hibernation mode with trance till about summer 2004... maybe late spring.... then is when you'll hear quality trance... it has been prophesized!

EDIT: an amazing trance track will come about once a month... in mid 2004 it will be more like 10 times a month

quote:

Originally posted by forsakend Heres some facts:

Those look more like opinions to me.

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