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-- Ishkur's guide of EDM and what they say about trance
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I dont really understand what his problem is with tunes like paul van dyk - for an angel or ayla - ayla. I can share the critic that trance has stuck in the same sound over the last years, it's almost all the same and you have to look good to find some good trance.
But i think he's exaggerating if i take a look at the examples of tunes he gives on his site. Maybe he's doing that at purpose just to make his point, i don't know.

And what's wrong with some good melody? Trance is a form of music that is strongly based on melody, you have to have a good melody, only the problem in the last couple of years is that the melody follows a cliched build with no creative element. That's the trick, to bring the melody in a original, creative way.


or am i wrong??

Yay, there's j-tech now! And the greatest trance track ever (Sta & Paul B - Secrets Inside) is finally there as well

Oh, yes, the trance definition... erm, what changed? I can't see anything wrong there

People take the Ishkur guide TOO SERIOUSLY! So he doesn't like trance that much, he bashes it on his guide. Who the fuck cares? So many people get a bug up their ass about a bullshit guide to electronica that only IDIOTS would take seriously. Really now...anybody who gets personally offended by anything in the Ishkur guide needs to GET A LIFE.



/rant

Personally, I think calling Airwave "Not Trance" does a great service to the Trance community.

When I am buying vinyls, I avoid the cheesey tons of emotional breakdown songs like the plague. I am sure all of you on here have listened to lots of livesets. Have you ever listened to a DJ that only plays the epic stuff? I can't stand to listen to them for longer than 30 to 45 minutes. It's too boring.

Now, I expect some people to say that I have no love for trance because of this. Please. If I didn't love Trance, I wouldn't be here. I buy Trance all the time and spin it along with a mixture of Techno and Breaks. I even play some anthems as long as they are not overblown like Airwave. Anthems are cool if used sparingly.

I happen to like Ishkur's guide. It's humorous and well written. The funny thing about it is that everybody that I have shown it to thinks it's great until they get to their own specific favorite genre. Then Ishkur becomes an "tool" who knows nothing about Electronic Music, simply because they can't take critisism or stand the fact that someone else doesn't think their style of music is the best on earth. Lighten up people, learn how to take a joke and read the disclaimer if you still don't get it.

Edit: Speaking of bad DJ's, have any of you all seen Ishkur's DJ reviews page, where people can send him a demo mix and he reviews it. Check out the review of DJ Deseo. That is exactly the kind of crap track selection and poor mixing I am talking about that gives Trance and Trance DJ's a bad name. Heres a link.

http://www.ishkur.com/memes/djmixes/deseo.htm

disclaimer says all

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers Not Trance: envio - touched by the sun i think that was done on purpose to piss ASOT fans off

actually envio was "honored" by that, he said so in a thread in the swedish part of the forum

i translated the part he posted

quote:

Originally posted by envio i think the guy made the page mostly as a joke. i can say that i thought it was very funny to read about all the genres and how he described everything. then the fact that he slams exactly everything just makes it more fun. also this page is quite famous and i don't think many people take it so seriously. and for me it is a great honour to be dissed by someone like ishkur

as I said before, ishkur is a tool

it's not my fault noobs use the page as a marker for genres, even tho they don't read the disclaimer.

It's a bit too opinionated for my tastes. I was expecting something objective that puts more priority into providing information rather than entertainment. Nice effort though.

quote:

Originally posted by punchline Personally, I think calling Airwave "Not Trance" does a great service to the Trance community. When I am buying vinyls, I avoid the cheesey tons of emotional breakdown songs like the plague. I am sure all of you on here have listened to lots of livesets. Have you ever listened to a DJ that only plays the epic stuff? I can't stand to listen to them for longer than 30 to 45 minutes. It's too boring. Now, I expect some people to say that I have no love for trance because of this. Please. If I didn't love Trance, I wouldn't be here. I buy Trance all the time and spin it along with a mixture of Techno and Breaks. I even play some anthems as long as they are not overblown like Airwave. Anthems are cool if used sparingly. I happen to like Ishkur's guide. It's humorous and well written. The funny thing about it is that everybody that I have shown it to thinks it's great until they get to their own specific favorite genre. Then Ishkur becomes an "tool" who knows nothing about Electronic Music, simply because they can't take critisism or stand the fact that someone else doesn't think their style of music is the best on earth. Lighten up people, learn how to take a joke and read the disclaimer if you still don't get it.

I almost completely agree with you; in fact, you sound exactly like I have for the past two years.

But there is a fine line between satire and ad nauseum, imprecise, masturbatory bashing; he's crossed it with trance. For An Angel does not belong in the same category as Fragma, and he's put them together for no good reason than to piss people off and indulge himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Shad0wmaster People take the Ishkur guide TOO SERIOUSLY! So he doesn't like trance that much, he bashes it on his guide. Who the fuck cares? So many people get a bug up their ass about a bullshit guide to electronica that only IDIOTS would take seriously. Really now...anybody who gets personally offended by anything in the Ishkur guide needs to GET A LIFE. /rant

Wait, if you took your own advice wouldn't you have not bothered with a reply?

who the heck said anyone took this too seriously. I just have a problem when someone asks me a question and I say that's not right and they say well ISHKUR's guide said it. I know ishkur did it as a joke for some parts but when you are trying to help noobies and they use the guide and ignore the disclaimer...then i just have a problem. I do say that someone should take in upon themselves to create the guide for ta and have a council of ppl to approve all the samples to make sure it is correct.

i found Ishkur's website to be pretty uproarious...he must have a lot of time on his hands. i especially like what he writes under German trance; namely, "Oonce, Oonce"

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Wait, if you took your own advice wouldn't you have not bothered with a reply?

No...I like Ishkur's guide, I read it alot. It's the people who get offended about it that need to shut up.

Re: Ishkur's guide of EDM and what they say about trance

quote:

Originally posted by vmc http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html This had to be made by some diehard minimal fans, listening to which means 1337ness according to this guide. Trance is bashed all over. Imagine that Rank 1 - Airwave and System F - Exhale were put into category Trance/Not Trance (aka Crap). What a piece of bullshit.

OK ishkur actually posted on this site last time this was brought up, it has been this way for christ knows how long and after listening to EDM for quite sometime i agree with him, i cant stand those songs, they suck. (IMO)


anyway, Ish was part of the unfortunate era which had their hearts broken by trance, they were around in early 90s and had trance all for themselves, when it was innovative and new, and unique, then as the decade ended it got worse and worse, songs such as the ones he rails on began emerging, the genre lost more and more heart, soon the music became over comercial shit, as for ish's reasoning like he says these songs just over synth, they leave no desire no yearning they synth you out completely, and this eventually leads to an overdose of the music, i cant stand epic trance at all anymore, the fucking bass kicks in the first 30 seconds of the songs are too much for me to stomach, i just shut it off, It is hard to explain exactly what that generation lost but with the comercialization of trance the scene shifted to mainstream as well, the heart and soul of the covetted rave culture was destroyed as the genres became comercial no longer was it about the music, and Ish was there for the destruction of it, I have talked to ish about trance on these forums and i felt horrible for him, never have i seen someone who you can tell was actually emotionally hurt by the destruction of a once great genre,

pure and simple here is how trance works,

The year you got into it, will be the best year you ever encounter, from there it will be all down hill, then you will just wander finding the occasional production that meets up to standards of when you got into it, It has been this way for quite some time, but todays over comercialized productions and lack of innovation which plaugues much of the genre do not hold a heated ember to the songs of the past decades. The genre is dying, and only its outskirts contain the soul which once the whole genre was comprised of.

Ish's guide was meant to be taken with a grain of salt, but sorry i back ish 100% on this issue, to give you a vague idea of how he felt, take that band you liked in your youth, that only you and your friends knew about, that were so awesome and "underground" then remeber when they started to go mainstream, suddenly everyone knows them, knows their new release which you waited for so long for when no one else knew about it till after it was out, take that emotion, that personal feeling, that possessive feeling which anyone harbours for music which is not mainstream thus they feel almost as if it is made for them, or at least people like them, at the concerts, or in this case raves, you felt a sense of belonging because it was all about the music, then all the sudden comercialization comes in, what was once a celebration of differences, uniqueness, and so on becomes another place for jocks to drink and bash on "nerds and geeks" the very fucking people who started, the scene, and make the music, and who are still the natural ones at such places, anyhow take that feeling you may remember from your lost band, how you hated them, threw their CDs away, ripped up their posters, and couldnt stomach listening to them because they were "sellouts" now apply that to a whole genre, as new genres, and i mean as a whole the EDM scene being so new, many people got to witness it transitioning from a hedonistic underground culture almost a religion and certainly a way of life, to a typical over hyped comercialized money driven greed pit. Think of the people whom trance died for completely, then maybe you can understand such a POV as ish's. Ish has been into this music for a great amount of time, he knows his shit, and he contributed alot to the scene, He no longer updates his site, but i used to read it when he did He is a good guy, and he has reason to say what he says.

DJDigDug, it would benefit you to read the whole thread and look at some of the post dates.

Re: Re: Ishkur's guide of EDM and what they say about trance

quote:

Originally posted by DJDigDug Lots of text

Very well written DJDigDug. I especially agree with the first year being the best year and then it slowly going downhill. I am not going to try to sound like some pretentious old school raver, because I'm not. I am probably one of the few people that really got into electronic music without going to many raves. I have been a huge fan of the genre for ~8 years. Before I became a DJ (around mid 98), I probably went to around 3 raves, and usually they were a pretty pathetic experience. I have been to a good number since then, but it's only when I am playing.

But back on track, that really is what it is like. At first every song was amazing. Then a little later, listening to the anthems one after another got kind of tiring. Then, as more and more were released, kind of annoying. And finally, they all sounded the same.

If I would have read ishkur's guide when I was just starting out, I would have said he was an idiot and didn't know what he was talking about. But as he says on his site disclaimer, "If you disagree with any part of this site, I give you about 9 months. By then you will either agree with everything here, or you won't be raving anymore." For most people I have met, it's true.

And don't try to insinuate from this post that I think Trance is dying. It's not, theres too much money in the Trance music industry for it to go away any time soon. I am still a big fan of the Trance that gets into a real solid groove, the kind that makes you say "wow, I could listen to this for hours" and suddenly you look at your watch and an hour has passed. There is still plenty of it out there, you just have to dig for it.

3 years of trance and still liking it
of course not trance by itself
fools, who listens to the same genre for a whole year?

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred i found Ishkur's website to be pretty uproarious...he must have a lot of time on his hands. i especially like what he writes under German trance; namely, "Oonce, Oonce"

time on his hands...or, you could look at it this way:

he knows a lot about genre classification. EDM has more sub-genres than the total number of genres OUTSIDE of EDM. i'm not saying he's the know-all/tell-all, but no one else gave their time like he did.

the layout of that site, as well as taking the time to make every artist/track/description images, instead of just text, was quite time-consuming, if not just to help avoid plagiarism.

additionally, i might add, i didn't find many development or layout errors/flaws on that site. (however, if there were, there would likely be a thread here about it)

all of that being said, his classifications may not be 110% whatever yours are, but what two people would classify EVERY EDM track in the same genre? and, on that note, doing something without being asked or payed/compensated, you wouldn't get a bit comical, and maybe take the time to hate on a genre that YOU think is cheese?

stop being trance-snobs, and take what you can get from his site, but don't bite the fingers that type. he gave a lot more to the community than most of us ever will.

I can't beleive people are still dragging this dead horse on. Read the disclaimer for fucks sake. I love the guide, no it's not the definative electronic music bible but it's still a great little piece of flash. Whether or not you agree with his opinions.... well, thats your opinion! Just like his, is his. If you're so worked up about it why not make your own guide?

Hell, I agree with most of it anyways. When I got into electronic music I loved average trance. Now I can't stand more than a set or two of it once and a while, it just gets boring. Its a one trick genre. Sure, I still love to jam out a fresh Armin or PvD set here and then, its fun music, but I think Ish said it best, "its like very sweet chocolate... good in small doses, but too much and youll get sick"

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