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yes...this means someone should take the fucking idea and say shit..let's start a edm guide..unbiased.

Humbly put,

I believe there will always be a bias. Everyone has a different slant on history, and there is a lot of subjectivity and accounting to go along with personal preferences and experiences and things of that nature. Everyone has personal heroes and heroines they will lift up higher on their shoulders than other people would. I know if I was to talk about the history of trance, BT would rank higher in my books than Tiesto might in other peoples' -- but I still respect them both.

And as for words like "techno", I mean, who listens to what original pioneers like Juan Atkins had to say in their own words about what constitutes "techno music"?

Or "trance", which really has exploded with commercial popularity over the last decade and yet finds room to continue reaching its tentacles out to many people with its diverse sounds?

The head-butting over terms like "jungle" vs. "drum 'n' bass" or questions like "Who was the most important member of Kraftwerk?" are only going to puzzle me further.

But if we did do something like this, I suggest we allow an opportunity for everyone to contribute meaningfully and thoughtfully without putting one another down. We can suggest things -- but like the music itself, it cannot be etched in stone and must allow room for future expansion and elaboration, not to mention revisionist history


That being said... do we include electronic music that is non-danceable (to most people, anyway)?

*gets jiggy to the Richard Devine record*

I think an EDM guide created by tranceaddicts is a great idea....as long as the respective "Experts" for each genre all contribute and are serious about it.

quote:

And as for words like "techno", I mean, who listens to what original pioneers like Juan Atkins had to say in their own words about what constitutes "techno music"?

No

Juan Atkins and Rick Davis did Cybotron but it was deemed electronic music back then (not early techno). Then the belleville three got together (may, atkins and saunderson) and in 1985, the three of them sat around a table in some house and spent hrs discussing what to call this genre. They come up with TECHNO (because it was the music that they made to be different, originally based on Ron Hardy's music at the Musicbox) (which was for the upscale gay crowd in Chicago and his friend Frankie Knuckles catered to the other crowd at the powerplant in the mid 80's). Anyway, it was music they made to be different according to May because no one was making the music they liked according to may as well. May hated techno but was won over and that's techno history as they say. Derrick May put techno on the may with his rhythim is rhythim releases in 1986 and 1987 and that's history.

Now drum n bass and jungle is complicated for some and easy for some. Easiest way to describe it, one was for the white suburbanites in London and the other was for the others) but they have moved beyond it and remember it branched out of hardcore.

that's what i learned reading.

What if we start with trance, present-day (since this is TA after all) and then go from there. Take a few branches of a tree at the time.... just an idea....

fucking hell..we can't start with that

it needs to start with the original people

kraftwerks ---> disco, garage ----> house ----> chi. house ----> TECHNO ----> Acid House ---->Hardcore ---> trance, drum'n'bass, jungle, hardcore....list goes on.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance it's not just techno....you've never tried me on anything else marcus....lol...my knowledge surprises most...lol...and music is not the only thing I know...rofl...I'm the person you can take anywhere..ballet....art gallery and I probably know as much as most and can argue my points...lol...not my fault...god blessed me with a memory bank.

you have to accept it� this is the most bastardly arrogant pathetic petulant annoying blatantly cocky statement ever� I mean shit it was quite funny but the amazing thing is that you were being serious� omg!

I have read some of the same things . . .

However, in a number of reliable reference books (and there aren't many for electronic music so far like there are for, say, the classical/romantic years)... there are a number of accounts which differ or contradict each other.

Isn't it strange how a lot of these pioneers seemed so openminded, and many years later, there are so many close-minded people? I don't get it.

Obviously reading helps, but living it is another. I wonder if there is anyone here who went through those times in Detroit in person? That would be a first person eyewitness account.

Thank you . . .

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance No Juan Atkins and Rick Davis did Cybotron but it was deemed electronic music back then (not early techno). Then the belleville three got together (may, atkins and saunderson) and in 1985, the three of them sat around a table in some house and spent hrs discussing what to call this genre. They come up with TECHNO (because it was the music that they made to be different, originally based on Ron Hardy's music at the Musicbox) (which was for the upscale gay crowd in Chicago and his friend Frankie Knuckles catered to the other crowd at the powerplant in the mid 80's). Anyway, it was music they made to be different according to May because no one was making the music they liked according to may as well. May hated techno but was won over and that's techno history as they say. Derrick May put techno on the may with his rhythim is rhythim releases in 1986 and 1987 and that's history. Now drum n bass and jungle is complicated for some and easy for some. Easiest way to describe it, one was for the white suburbanites in London and the other was for the others) but they have moved beyond it and remember it branched out of hardcore. that's what i learned reading.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance such a funny thread nice to see the yaletrance crybaby getting mad at my comment. He can't prove it that others know more than me but then again (key old tta saying) I can't prove it as well. Only if there was some way, but I do know more than ishkur and I'm willing to prove it (still dunno how) that brings us to the real point time to make a real EDM genre guide for the noobies. I think it's time to get the biased bullshit out of a guide and just tell it like it is (I'll happily help with the techno and the house history and finding real tracks).

Humility. Do you know what that means?

I don't need to prove that others know more than you and that's not my intention either. What do I care. My point is that knowledge is relative, and some people will naturally know more than others in certain subjects. This is a fact that you're apparently unable to accept for whatever personal reason, that's not my problem.

Instead of acknoweledging this fact, all you can do is resort to lowbrow insults. "Crybaby, fuckup, tiesto-whore" whatever. Trust me, I don't get mad by someone calling me names that were uncalled for over the Internet. It just unmasks your immaturity or whatever your problem is. I'm in the middle of writing my thesis on political economy so I can finally graduate from this place, and this is nice distraction to release some stress. So thanks.

There are a few books on the subject but nothing really tells the complete unabridged story

last night a dj saved my life
rough guide to house
rough guide to techno

read those three and you will have some idea

not the greatest. I've just picked it all up over years of reading things.

See what is known is that Derrick May is technically the detroit mob boss of techno, evidence = he blackballed blake baxter from detroit....read the interviews. Derrick May got pissed off at critics who slammed his 1993 album and he got mad and cried and went into self imposed production retirement.

techno's history after detroit is not so clear. What is clear is that certain people liked it and booked the techno people in japan and europe (from there the scenes got going). It's complicated, I'm trying to sort thru that....no one book tells everything. I hope to write a book on it one day, hopefully telling the complete history with help from a ton of people.

my problem is you try to disprove everything and my earlier comment still stands and I'm not apologizing. Your immaturity shows as well and you always try to show your point of view as the right point of view with this shitty wording as if you are so great.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance fucking hell..we can't start with that it needs to start with the original people kraftwerks ---> disco, garage ----> house ----> chi. house ----> TECHNO ----> Acid House ---->Hardcore ---> trance, drum'n'bass, jungle, hardcore....list goes on.

before synthpop and disco, you have to give props to ambient such as Brian Eno that broadened the popular appeal of electronic music. and before that, minimalism--which pretty much created the underlying ethos for electronic music that still reigns to this day, musicmaking by process and repetition rather than the old confines of traditional music structures and harmonic guidelines. this is very important, without the minimalists Kraftwerk and Moroder probably wouldn't have happened.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance my problem is you try to disprove everything and my earlier comment still stands and I'm not apologizing. Your immaturity shows as well and you always try to show your point of view as the right point of view with this shitty wording as if you are so great.

i NEVER try to show my point of view as the right point of view. anyone that knows me knows that there's nothing I hate more than the belief in absolute truths or a system of values that rejects subjectivity when it comes to art history. i really fail to see what's so offensive about my posts, when what's offensive about yours is pretty blatant.

Yes but you have to remember that Brian Eno was more of an outsider with music, who did his own thing and inspired a ton of people. I broadly mentioned the main music genres till hardcore split up. I mean Moroder and Francois K are always in Disco for me. They were making Disco music in the mid 1970's and I always lump them in house or the early garage and disco. I mean you can't forget larry levan but you cannot forget at that time, you had kool keith herc who started breakbeat but then hip hop got big, it's a huge task I know. But at that time, you had Jean Michel Jarre. The problem in doing one of these is you might forget someone because so many people had a hand in inspiring someone's music. I mean ambient producers today would be nowhere with pete namlook but most people forget ambient techno. It's complicated and time consuming, hence why I'm not taking on the task of running this.

That's why an accurate guide would have to delineate all of the influential movements, and to do that as thoroughly as possible one would have to start in the 1920s with the Italian futurists, Edgard, Varese and French musique concrete. Dance music is a hybrid of many fusions, technological innovations (how can one not mention Moog and Wendy Carlos in all of the Kubrick movies that touched a generation). Very hard task indeed, but one has to mention everything in order to avoid any biased discrepancies.

YaleTrance > torontotrance

imho

who let you out of your cage? lazy colombian zookeeper?

jaja, gracias Master.

but this is not a competition. this is just a very educational experience.

i mean i respect nearly everyone on this board..even tho sometimes i don't show it. I mean i cannot stand yaletrance and his devotion to tiesto but the guy knows his music history but the master..sighs.

Fair enough.

But my "devotion" to Tiesto is not blind if you cared to notice. I really really hated Love Comes Again.

Colombia 2 - peru o
^emphasis on capital C

amarillo azul y ROJO!!!!

Colombia pueda classificar amigo hermano de mi propio pais

vamos a ganar a los ecautorianos!!!

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance jaja, gracias Master. but this is not a competition. this is just a very educational experience.

the humble man... oh this is exactly the reason for me saying what i said... i know you YaleTrance have an inmense wisdom in music and I know torontotrance too so not getting into deep shit... the arrogance and cocky personality of torontotrance makes YaleTrance a much better person

quote:

as one dj once said..who gives a fuck what genre it is as long as it is good.

words to live by!

sighs

arrogance.....haha
cocky..never been that...lol

you just like to flaunt your opinion as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance it's not just techno....you've never tried me on anything else marcus....lol...my knowledge surprises most...lol...and music is not the only thing I know...rofl...I'm the person you can take anywhere..ballet....art gallery and I probably know as much as most and can argue my points...lol...not my fault...god blessed me with a memory bank.

you have to accept it� this is the most bastardly arrogant pathetic petulant annoying blatantly cocky statement ever� I mean shit it was quite funny but the amazing thing is that you were being serious� omg!

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