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-- Lets talk facts about who is evil
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I've never been one to back down from an argument.

Good. That makes two of us.

Fact: terrorists are evil.

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Originally posted by Epicurus No way Dervish. We need to understand EVERY single post!!!! Very important issues that could affect world peace are being discussed here

Why not allow people the right to have dedicated threads? I mean they could make their best effort to do it in english if they could. And maybe someone else could translate if it warrented it. Maybe you could take the stance type english or type somewhere else but then you'd never see what they have to say then. And you'd be depriveing the other people on this board who can speak thouse languages another viewpoint. Also this may a way for them to get better at speaking english too.

And I'm not trying to be anoying but the whole defintion of evil thing would need to be sorted out before you could say terroists are evil. They are really just a product of their inputs just like us. But you could take the view that relative to us they are evil, and we relative to them are evil..... by somehow being unworthy/unholy infidels and evil and sub human and so on. As oposed to us thinking them evil for brain washing young boys into blowing themselfs up to secure power and infulence for the mullas. But meh takes all sorts to mke the world go round ehh?

Want to see evil????

Look at what your terrorist government has done to this poor woman.

Stick it up your ass fuzzy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/...tory/html/1.stm

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Why not allow people the right to have dedicated threads? I mean they could make their best effort to do it in english if they could. And maybe someone else could translate if it warrented it. Maybe you could take the stance type english or type somewhere else but then you'd never see what they have to say then. And you'd be depriveing the other people on this board who can speak thouse languages another viewpoint. Also this may a way for them to get better at speaking english too.

Dervish, I was being sarcastic I'm with you, let them say whatever they want, in whatever language. Stop the POLICING!!!

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Stick it up your ass fuzzy

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Originally posted by Epicurus Dervish, I was being sarcastic I'm with you, let them say whatever they want, in whatever language. Stop the POLICING!!!

Yeah I knew but then I got carried away and onto a differnt topic and stuff....

PS About the terroists I know this is gonna sound weird but the suicide bombers arn't what I'd call evil purely because they are willing to give up their own lives and they must have a reson to do that(which is duely given by thier elder caring mullas who insidently then not to blow themselfs up even though it is an instant ticket into heaven funny that?). The truely evil ones are the Mullas who if there were no troubles would have no power, who, was going to say push, but more pull and manipulate people into doing these things. For example how many suicide bombers are over say 40 or 50 it's always young impresionable people. Which is actually such a shame.

Woops just did it again! I'm serious I stay up too late then I get all weird and unable to emm yeah..... hehe

Why is this still open? As soon as the "LIBERAL MEDIA!" accusations start flying around - in this case in the first post, you know the thread is going to shit.

By the way - what does liberal media mean exactly? Is it anything that isn't either Fox, WorltNetDaily, Islam.com or Christiannews.com?

Heh, Fuzzy, if you want the europeans to think better of americans, the first step you should take is to shut up, because if we'd judge americans by your posts they wouldn't quite be portrayed as very intelligent people.

Now, about the french usage...I must side with Epicurus here. It's much easier to read a foreign language than it is to express oneself in it. For example, if you'd post a long article in polish, I could understand what it's talking about, but if you'd ask me to write something in polish, I'd had no clue on how to do it. Same goes for Bronze's posts. I understand what he's talking about, but it'd be difficult as hell for me to respond to him in french, and it would probably be hardly understandable as well.

Besides, this forum is not an english language only, it's a multilingual forum with subforums like french, german, etc. I agree it's best to use english, as it is a language most of us speak here, but I have a feeling that most people here do know at least some french as well, so it's not like nobody understands the guy. Btw, isn't Swamper half-portugese or something?

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Originally posted by Q5echo Fact: terrorists are evil.

there are terrorist who are dumb=bin laden crew

and there are freedom fighters, who have nothing no guns, tanks but their self and hope. thats the thing in isreal and palastina..

now you ask me y? you support bombing in clubs and busses? i say no but i have to be carefull saying that, if i say no, means i support
isreal, going wrecking homes, making 600k people starve because they can't work and have almost no food, and isreal is planning to stop the UN from giving those people food..this means will have a crisses..
isreal going capturing people on sight, without any solid prove and throwing them in jail without a trail, screwing up fzmiles..

DO I SUPPORT THAT?! hell no

if you support the second, then risk getting killed in buss..and don't moan

yes it sounds easy and harsh, but if no1 in this fuking earth is preapeared to treat each other fair, then ha keep discussing, the end wont come for a while.

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Originally posted by Massive84 there are terrorist who are dumb=bin laden crew.

The ones mind you that Bush should have kept his focus on instead of going into Iraq in the first place.

i came in here thinking this might be a thread about fundamentalistic dualisms, and i get this shit :/

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Originally posted by tathi i came in here thinking this might be a thread about fundamentalistic dualisms, and i get this shit :/

I'm only reading this thread now in hopes of a Polish string of cuss words unlike anything I've ever read.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Want to see evil???? Look at what your terrorist government has done to this poor woman. Stick it up your ass fuzzy http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/...tory/html/1.stm

Her country was involved in a war. I'm sorry to hear about her loss, but stuff like that happens in war (a lot less with the way the US wages war these days also). The American army tries as hard as possible to avoid civillian casualties, but in war, people die.

Now, lets look at who's responsible, shall we...

Her and her family kept an evil regime in power, just as the Germans were responsible for the Nazi's coming to power and staying in power. Likewise the Japanese. Her innocents is shattered by the fact that she is part of a community that did nothing to stop her own evil government.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Besides, this forum is not an english language only, it's a multilingual forum with subforums like french, german, etc. I agree it's best to use english, as it is a language most of us speak here, but I have a feeling that most people here do know at least some french as well, so it's not like nobody understands the guy. Btw, isn't Swamper half-portugese or something?

As I stated before, It was stated before by moderators (I believe WickedNeo AND Swamper) that this forum is English ONLY. It's not my policy, but if this is a multilanguage forum then I will leave since I only understand English and Spanish. There's a reason that this isn't trance.nu.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Her and her family kept an evil regime in power, just as the Germans were responsible for the Nazi's coming to power and staying in power. Likewise the Japanese. Her innocents is shattered by the fact that she is part of a community that did nothing to stop her own evil government.

If an arab was to write
"Her and her family kept an evil regime in power. Her innocents is shattered by the fact that she is part of a community that did nothing to stop her own evil government." of someone who lost their loved ones on 911 - how would you feel?
Unlike the Iraqi-woman, the US-citizens have elected their governments.

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Originally posted by trancaholic If an arab was to write "Her and her family kept an evil regime in power. Her innocents is shattered by the fact that she is part of a community that did nothing to stop her own evil government." of someone who lost their loved ones on 911 - how would you feel? Unlike the Iraqi-woman, the US-citizens have elected their governments.

I knew someone would use that argument, but it's different, my government hasn't tried to take over any other countries, in fact all we do is spend out tax money on supporting other countries. My government is not inherrently evil, yes there is still some corruption, but for the most part the US government is looking out for the good of "peacefull" people.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen As I stated before, It was stated before by moderators (I believe WickedNeo AND Swamper) that this forum is English ONLY. It's not my policy, but if this is a multilanguage forum then I will leave since I only understand English and Spanish. There's a reason that this isn't trance.nu.

Right...better start packing your suitcase soon.
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/....php?forumid=58
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/....php?forumid=63

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I knew someone would use that argument, but it's different, my government hasn't tried to take over any other countries,

Iraq?

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in fact all we do is spend out tax money on supporting other countries.

Yes, especially those kind and benevolent regimes, like Pinnochet, Talibans, Saudi Arabia royal family, Iranian islamists...

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My government is not inherrently evil, yes there is still some corruption, but for the most part the US government is looking out for the good of "peacefull" people.

Like examples above, eh?

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I knew someone would use that argument, but it's different, my government hasn't tried to take over any other countries, in fact all we do is spend out tax money on supporting other countries. My government is not inherrently evil, yes there is still some corruption, but for the most part the US government is looking out for the good of "peacefull" people.

Refuting the basis of your argument:
I'm not good at history, but how about : Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, etc. Did the people in these countries ask for your opinion on who they should be governed by? You may say that you haven't tried to take over these countries - well, you have assisted minorities in these countries. Helping them to instate a US-friendly government.

Refuting the applicability of your argument:
Iraq hasn't tried to take over any countries ever since Kuwait. And they have been at their best behaviour (invasion wise) ever since.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Her country was involved in a war. I'm sorry to hear about her loss, but stuff like that happens in war (a lot less with the way the US wages war these days also). The American army tries as hard as possible to avoid civillian casualties, but in war, people die. Now, lets look at who's responsible, shall we... Her and her family kept an evil regime in power, just as the Germans were responsible for the Nazi's coming to power and staying in power. Likewise the Japanese. Her innocents is shattered by the fact that she is part of a community that did nothing to stop her own evil government.

I cant beleive how idiotic this statement is.

First off.. she wasnt involved in this war, no one in Iraq was involved in this war. It was your death squad of a government that VOLUNTARILY and FORCEFULLY went to war with her country.

Who is responsivble??? You are blaming the murder of her family becuase she did nothing to oust the baath party???? People in iraq lived in fear if they had these such words. Saddam came into power BY FORCE. The people had nothing to do with it.

Should the people who want to get rid of the Bush administration be responisible if a nation went to war on your homeland.

Until you see your sky scrapers being blown up, neighborhoods on fire, and people shot by a miliatry IN YOUR nation, you wouldnt know the meaning of "responsibility" unitl it raped you in that yankee ass.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I knew someone would use that argument, but it's different, my government hasn't tried to take over any other countries, in fact all we do is spend out tax money on supporting other countries. My government is not inherrently evil, yes there is still some corruption, but for the most part the US government is looking out for the good of "peacefull" people.

dude..the goverment forced itself on a country..do u ever ask urself if anybody asked for ur help..did any iraqi cries " oh mighty US please help us"..no the goverment just imposed...you have to remember that ARABS r pretty proud people..they would rather have thier old life back then seein forigners with guns walking through thier streets..

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I cant beleive how idiotic this statement is. First off.. she wasnt involved in this war, no one in Iraq was involved in this war. It was your death squad of a government that VOLUNTARILY and FORCEFULLY went to war with her country. Who is responsible??? You are blaming the murder of her family becuase she did nothing to oust the baath party???? People in iraq lived in fear if they had these such words. Saddam came into power BY FORCE. The people had nothing to do with it. Should the people who want to get rid of the Bush administration be responisible if a nation went to war on your homeland. Until you see your sky scrapers being blown up, neighborhoods on fire, and people shot by a miliatry IN YOUR nation, you wouldnt know the meaning of "responsibility" unitl it raped you in that yankee ass.

Fuzzy man, seriously, your arguments are a joke and you're making a laughing stock out of yourself Your logic is COMPLETELY fallacious. Cyrus nailed you on pretty much every point.

However, you do bring up an interesting point, although COMPLETELY misapplied in the case of Iraq.
The point is: Should citizens of a specific DEMOCRATIC country be held accountable for acts (presumably negative) that their governments perpetrate against other nations, people...(obviously if the nation is NOT democratic, the point is moot, FUZZY)

My two cents, with two view points.

Yes they should be held accountable. These countries are democracies. By definition, they elect their leaders, and thus, should be (totally/partially) responsable for the acts perpetrated by their leaders since they put them there in the first place. Note that in cases like the US with it's electoral college system, this point becomes somewhat debatable but let's let it slide for now.

No they should not be held accountable. Although citizens in democratic countries do INDEED elect their leaders, not EVERY citizen elects that specific leader. A citizen could have voted for another leader, who then proceeded to lose the elections. Thus, when their governments perpetrate acts of "state terrorism", for instance, and "terrorists" attack this state back by killing civilians by using suicide bombs against them, which, ipso facto, do NOT discriminate against people who voted for or against a particular leader, the suicide bombers are at fault.

Furthermore, if people elect these leaders to power at time t = x, and then event A that "rocks" that nation occurs at time t = x + 1 and leads the leaders of that nation to take a course of action that the constituents as a whole don't agree with and COULD NOT have predicted, and voice their disapproval by demonstrations and the like, then the people should not be held accountable, and the suicide bombers are at fault.

Only thoughts here. I personally sway towards the second view point, although that is most certainly not set in stone, and it would be interesting to hear everyone's view points on this topic

EDIT:/ Some ugly spelling mistakes

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Originally posted by Epicurus Furthermore, if people elect these leaders to power at time t = x, and then event A that "rocks" that nation occurs at time t = x + 1 and leads the leaders of that nation to take a course of action that the constituents as a whole don't agree with and COULD NOT have predicted, and voice their disapproval by demonstrations and the like, then the people should not be held accountable, and the suicide bombers are at fault.

I guess that would be at time x=t+1? Otherwise we are talking about an event that happened prior to the person being elected.

Hehe,trust the pedants to destroy the fun.

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I guess that would be at time x=t+1? Otherwise we are talking about an event that happened prior to the person being elected.

He he he...and I'm a mathmatician lol...thanks...I will re-redit the post to correct for that

Edit:/ I need major sleep. The original formulation was correct. Stop your confusion tactics and answer the post

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Originally posted by trancaholic I guess that would be at time x=t+1? Otherwise we are talking about an event that happened prior to the person being elected. Hehe,trust the pedants to destroy the fun.

nah since t=x, t=x+1 is basically the same as x=t+1

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