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quote:

Originally posted by AddictedTo1982 off topic

are you the new TA forum czar?

quote:

Originally posted by AddictedTo1982 Well you seem pwned by the video. As for Bush on education no child left behind has been underfunded by 9 Billions dollars and he is not doing shit to fuckin fix it

and i havent seen the vid nor do i plan on doing so. Since when were you big on education? Were YOU left behind?

ladies and gentlemen, my final rant on BUSH:

Bush is a fucking idiot. He waits a week to apologize for the sickening, embarrasing, an inexusable behavior of his "noble" and "brave" soldiers that are supposed to represent this wonderful coutry.

Then, terrorists go and retaliate, (does this really shock you?) and suddenly the heat is shifted off the Americans and back on to the Iraqis. On the front page of the post today in big letters read:

SAVAGES

this is so fucking hypocritical of the US. These people stand for causing terror and eliminating their enemies. We as a superpower know this. But our awarenes of this INDEPENDENT group of iraqis does not justify the behavior of our own soldiers, who should be there to uphold and represent what this country is supposed to stand for. The US has once again made a fool out of itself, and Bush is to blame. WHY THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO KEEP GIVING THESE PEOPLE MORE AMMUNITION? AND HAVEN'T THE CIVILIANS OF IRAQ SUFFERED ENOUGH?

We throw a fit when US prisoners are tortured and killed, but when the US does the same to Iraqi prisoners, the whole ordeal is kept under wraps (or there is at least an attempt at it)

The fact is, Bush isn't sorry it happened. He's just sorry it reached the public. He's a dishonest, worthless president. And for me, these events just reinforce my belief that the country will continue to go down-hill on a global level if bush remains in office for a second term.

the biggest mistake Bush has made so far is not turning Iraq into a giant parking lot months ago...

quote:

Originally posted by Busy Child and i havent seen the vid nor do i plan on doing so. Since when were you big on education? Were YOU left behind?

whatever you Pro Bush goob

quote:

Originally posted by AddictedTo1982 whatever you Pro Bush goob

honestly, what is the reasoning behind being pro-bush? can one of you noobs give a good reason?

I'm an independant, but I'm married to a Bush supporter. Bush has been quite reckless with this country and a foul representation of America to the rest of the world. So why do people like Bush?...

1. First of all, he is labeled Republican...that instantly gathers support from the masses of lemming voters (people who side with political parties--repub or democ).

2. Secondly, Bush sympathizes with people who are afraid of losing what they feel are the right (literally) morals for American society. These are typically the church crowd. (Issues like abortion, sexuality, prayer in schools)

3. Third, Bush gets the rich vote for the most part. He is the all-time world record holder for the most corporate campaign donations. Also, The biggest lifetime contributor to Bush's campaign, who is also one of his best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

4. There are a handful of hardworking middle class people who support Bush, but personally their reasons seem to revolve around Bush's "I don't care what you think" attitude and the misconception that Bush supports the military (which being around the military my whole life I can attest to what he has done so far...cut bonuses and is planning to cut 25% of all military bases in 2005). And those who need a lesson in basic american economics...Lower taxes= not-so-good economy.

I could go on and on, but I'll leave it at that for further discussion.

-The Peachness

quote:

Originally posted by The Peach I'm an independant, but I'm married to a Bush supporter. Bush has been quite reckless with this country and a foul representation of America to the rest of the world. So why do people like Bush?... 1. First of all, he is labeled Republican...that instantly gathers support from the masses of lemming voters (people who side with political parties--repub or democ). 2. Secondly, Bush sympathizes with people who are afraid of losing what they feel are the right (literally) morals for American society. These are typically the church crowd. (Issues like abortion, sexuality, prayer in schools) 3. Third, Bush gets the rich vote for the most part. He is the all-time world record holder for the most corporate campaign donations. Also, The biggest lifetime contributor to Bush's campaign, who is also one of his best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation). 4. There are a handful of hardworking middle class people who support Bush, but personally their reasons seem to revolve around Bush's "I don't care what you think" attitude and the misconception that Bush supports the military (which being around the military my whole life I can attest to what he has done so far...cut bonuses and is planning to cut 25% of all military bases in 2005). I could go on and on, but I'll leave it at that for further discussion. -The Peachness

There are all of those ... and then there are those core conservatives who stringintely stick to beliefs of small governements, less taxes, and a freer society. Unfortunately Bush is no "conservative" and has increased the size of government, has never vetoed any spending bill, has embarked upon a Clintonesque nation building campaign of monumentous proportions, and is campaigning for religious rights at the expense of civil liberties. I hate the democrats as much as the republicans, however, it's truly unfortunate that Bush embarked upon the foreign policies that he has. I largely approve of his domestic economic policies but I simply cannot ignore all other factors.

Occ,
I agree with your comments. Unfortunately, most people have yet to pull the wool from their eyes so that they can see that this administration is about big business and government expansion. Perhaps there are those who support bush who may not like him completely but they're hanging on to the old ideals of conservatives. My husband is in the air force and i've had some wife ask me "how can you not be for bush since your husband is military?" I said, well, name one way bush has improved our lives. Obviously she couldn't and then i interjected with the fact that our husbands have had their 5 year pilot bonuses cut (worth about 15k) under bush and that bush is getting ready to close 25% of military bases. she then went on to say that those things are caused by clinton... Those who have ears cannot always hear.

-Peachpie

quote:

Originally posted by CityKitty honestly, what is the reasoning behind being pro-bush?

I hate to say it, but some people are partisans first and Americans second.

This is why I'm going to remain a registered independent for now.


Anyone who loves this country knows Bush is taking it straight to hell.

If Kerry fucks up after he's elected, I'll be the first to take him to task over it, the first to be out there marching.

rather interesting table near the bottom... draw your own conclusions.

http://americanassembler.com/featur...te_averages.htm

on a similar note to what dave and peach said, i'm sorry but i find that a select few members of a certain political party are very difficult to reason with and to have thoughtful discussions with. reasoning with emotions rather than logic leads to very dangerous things...

"saddam tried to kill my dad." hmm i guess that's the link between al-qaeda and iraq we were all looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by AddictedTo1982 whatever you Pro Bush goob

i never said i was currently pro bush, but i guess you really were left behind in the education factor.

quote:

Originally posted by The Peach I'm an independant, but I'm married to a Bush supporter. Bush has been quite reckless with this country and a foul representation of America to the rest of the world. So why do people like Bush?... 1. First of all, he is labeled Republican...that instantly gathers support from the masses of lemming voters (people who side with political parties--repub or democ). 2. Secondly, Bush sympathizes with people who are afraid of losing what they feel are the right (literally) morals for American society. These are typically the church crowd. (Issues like abortion, sexuality, prayer in schools) 3. Third, Bush gets the rich vote for the most part. He is the all-time world record holder for the most corporate campaign donations. Also, The biggest lifetime contributor to Bush's campaign, who is also one of his best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation). 4. There are a handful of hardworking middle class people who support Bush, but personally their reasons seem to revolve around Bush's "I don't care what you think" attitude and the misconception that Bush supports the military (which being around the military my whole life I can attest to what he has done so far...cut bonuses and is planning to cut 25% of all military bases in 2005). And those who need a lesson in basic american economics...Lower taxes= not-so-good economy. I could go on and on, but I'll leave it at that for further discussion. -The Peachness

Well said Peach.

Besides the Fundamentlist policies, and the lies about Iraq, the cronyism is what pisses me off about the Bush Administration above anything else.

Recently he gave a mining company that contributed to his campaign federal land in the Rockies worth tens of millions for $875 - $5 dollars an acre.

That land belongs to every American, and he fucking gave it away for it to be decapitated by a mining company that gave him some campaign money.

It makes me wish for Nixon.

This made me laff.

I like Grassley for being honest. He also criticized the Bush Administration when they witheld the results of an FDA study documenting increased sucided risk in children who take antidepressants - presumably to cover the backs of their campaign contributors in the pharma industry.




http://www.thehill.com/news/051304/oversight.aspx


Dems did oversight better, says Grassley
Lawmakers lament lack of scrutiny
By Geoff Earle


Several senior Republicans and Democrats say Congress has failed to carry out its critical role in overseeing the vast federal bureaucracy, falling particularly short since Republicans captured the White House in 2000.


file photo
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) says things were different in his brother�s day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The members say the problem of congressional neglect extends far beyond the latest revelations of national intelligence failures and prison abuse in Iraq, and touches virtually every federal function � from education programs to government contractors.

�We Republicans have never quite reached the level of competent oversight that the Democrats developed over their 40 years that they controlled Congress,� said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the Senate Finance Committee chairman and one of the few Republicans to pepper the administration regularly with inquiries. �We tried to emphasize legislating, and we�ve delegated so much authority to the executive branch of government, and we ought to devote more time to oversight than we do.�

When your party controls Congress and the White House, �You get less oversight,� said Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.), who chairs the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee. �That�s the way it goes.�

But it wasn�t always this way, said Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.). �When my brother was attorney general, Sam Ervin questioned him for two and a half days on the Civil Rights Act of 1964,� he said, referring to the North Carolina Democrat�s hearings with Attorney General Bobby Kennedy. �Two and a half days!�

Kennedy said that back then, cabinet officials didn�t try to shirk opportunities to testify, as they sometimes do now. �There wasn�t a question of, �Look, I�ve got an appointment downtown,�� he said.

Powerful Democratic committee chairmen pursued a series of investigations into Clinton administration policies when they controlled Congress for the first two years of Clinton�s term. There were tense hearings on Whitewater and on Clinton�s controversial �Don�t Ask, Don�t Tell� policy on gays in the military.

Clinton �got clobbered by his Democratic members,� said a Democratic leadership aide. �Clinton couldn�t even get a health bill up for a vote, for Christ�s sake. It was his number-one priority.�

�The Republicans haven�t tried oversight,� said Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.). �These people will not do oversight of their administration.�

Observers describe a much more tightly knit relationship between leading congressional Republicans and President Bush, who has racked up a series of legislative victories and has yet to issue a veto of any legislation.

After the GOP gained control of the House and Senate in 1994, the Republicans followed up with robust investigations of the siege at Waco, Texas, and other matters. But Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), called many of these investigations �excessive� and �politically motivated.�

As chairman of the Government Reform and Oversight Committee (it has been renamed simply Government Reform), Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) also looked into fundraising abuses in the Clinton-Gore campaigns and investigated the FBI�s use in the 1960s of mobster informants. Burton signaled an interest in investigating the Bush administration on some issues, but he has since relinquished his chairmanship due to term limits.

Waxman said that when Republicans ran Congress and Democrats had the White House, �There was no allegation too small for them to issue subpoenas.� Now, he said, there is no scandal so big it won�t get overlooked.

Waxman, who serves on Government Reform and on Energy and Commerce, said that Democrats have sought hearings on federal contracting in Iraq, the outing of Valerie Plame�s CIA identity, the California energy crisis, and the administration�s energy task force � and that in each case, the GOP majority refused, except for a Government Reform hearing on the government-contracting issue.

Democrats on Government Reform recently sought an investigation of the role that private contractors played in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal. Davis, in an interview, didn�t close the door on such hearings, saying, �We�re going to look at it. It�ll be regular order.�

Davis cited an earlier hearing dealing with other issues surrounding contractors such as Halliburton as evidence that the committee was willing to pursue even topics that might make the administration look bad. �There was some anxiety,� he said, �but I wouldn�t say there was pressure� not to go forward.

At the same time, the House and Senate Appropriations Committees have given the administration leeway to distribute funds appropriated for the war � although some members criticized the administration for dedicating hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare for the war in Iraq while providing only a brief notification to Congress.

�We�ve been so busy trying to get our bills passed through conference,� said House Appropriations Committee Chairman Rep. Bill Young (R-Fla.). �It takes away from the time we should have been applying towards oversight.�

The ongoing hearings into the Iraqi abuse scandal may be the exception to the rule.

The hearings attracted worldwide attention when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testified. Senate Republicans had called for Rumsfeld to appear almost as soon as the scandal hit the airwaves. But members of the House Armed Services Committee showed no such urgency. The House members at first hoped to wait until after the weekend to schedule Rumsfeld�s appearance, only later switching the hearing to Friday, the same day the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing occurred.

In the last few years, the Senate generally has been more willing to pursue aggressive oversight than the House, with Grassley and Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.) often nipping at the administration�s heels. The House Energy and Commerce Committee also has played a role, but it often has focused on business issues like faulty Firestone tires and the controversial Super Bowl half-time show rather than government functions.

Democrats on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee wrote Chairman Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) in November seeking hearings on the new �No Child Left Behind� law. But no hearing has occurred. The Senate Governmental Affairs Committee has conducted oversight of the new Homeland Security Department, but much of its work has been on consumer issues, such as an attention-grabbing hearing on �diploma mills.�

When oversight and hearings do occur, the results aren�t always as enlightening as they could be. At the Senate Armed Services hearings, each of 25 members on the panel got a brief chance to query Rumsfeld. But it was hard for any of them to pursue a line of questioning. Staff weren�t allowed to ask follow-up questions � as they were allowed to do in the Watergate hearings.

�This is a travesty that you get six minutes, and call that �advise and consent,�� Kennedy said. �In too many instances, the Congress has yielded too many of its prerogatives to the executive.�

dave, trunks, et al...
i suppose one positive thing is that there are more people who feel the way we do than we think. i feel it is especially prevalent in the younger generation (teens-mid 20's)...which means there is hope for america considering that we will be the ones in office one day. trunks, i agree, it is hard to reason with some people. for example, i live in mississippi and it is hardcore republican and primarily because it is SO religious. they work really hard to keep this place like this and look at the fruits of their labor....terrible education system, very few middle class, rampant unemployment and illiteracy...etc. And another thing that just busts my buttons is the fact that bars close here at 12:30am. Hell, i'm used to going out at midnight.

Doing my part to piss off the religious right,
The Peach

quote:

Originally posted by The Peach dave, trunks, et al... i suppose one positive thing is that there are more people who feel the way we do than we think. i feel it is especially prevalent in the younger generation (teens-mid 20's)...which means there is hope for america considering that we will be the ones in office one day. trunks, i agree, it is hard to reason with some people. for example, i live in mississippi and it is hardcore republican and primarily because it is SO religious. they work really hard to keep this place like this and look at the fruits of their labor....terrible education system, very few middle class, rampant unemployment and illiteracy...etc. And another thing that just busts my buttons is the fact that bars close here at 12:30am. Hell, i'm used to going out at midnight. Doing my part to piss off the religious right, The Peach

Don't even get me started about the Fundies.

My favorite politician is actually Russ Feingold from Wisconsin. He was the only Senator to vote against the Patriot Act and the 'Assault' Weapons ban.

That's a man who believes in the Bill of Rights!

Here is a question for you all.......
If you any of you had kids that were old enough to join the military right now.....would you let them? I know I wouldn't.

id pop a few paint balls his way, and see what he thought about war then.

Hell No!

I wouldnt let my son join. I actually would try to talk someone out of it if they mentioned to me they would like to join.

i cannot believe i forced myself to look at the pictures from the video. i don't even know what to say to be honest. all i know is that it is getting so much worse over there, and if aaron goes there this year...a part of me will definitely die. it makes me physically sick to see the state our world is in.

^^^^Tell him to go AWOL!!!!

Bush let a real bad light shine on the "Ameriqanis".

I sorta got the feeling he's doing all this just to make his dad be proud of him

the ignorance in this thread is abominable

The way those American troops treated them prisoners is sick, but having worked alongside american soldiers on several occasions it doesnt surprise me,,they really are mostly a bunch of dumb uneducated,undisciplined fucks....For every action there has to be a reaction, and America certainly got it,,sick fucking bastards, I really hope that the people who were responsible for this are caught and dealt with severely,,but i'm sorry,,those American MP's are just as responible for that guy's death.....

quote:

Originally posted by steven neil The way those American troops treated them prisoners is sick, but having worked alongside american soldiers on several occasions it doesnt surprise me,,they really are mostly a bunch of dumb uneducated,undisciplined fucks....For every action there has to be a reaction, and America certainly got it,,sick fucking bastards, I really hope that the people who were responsible for this are caught and dealt with severely,,but i'm sorry,,those American MP's are just as responible for that guy's death.....

I agree and disagree. What those troops did to those inmates was wrong and they will be punished for what they did. But Nick Berg was no criminal....he was only there to help. But your prob right Steven.....if those inmates were treated right.....this would never of happend. But then again, what if 9/11 never happend.

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