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-- They should abolish last call in Ontario
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time of night has EVERYTHING to do with it! Clubs open at 10, people really start to show up between 11 and 12 (for the most part). You serve until 2 vs. you serve all night, can you honestly say that people won't be drinking more and for longer? Come on now

with no last call, clubs may see some people showing up a bit later and staying later, but most will still show between 11-12, but now they'll be drinking later into the night (good for the club, not so good for police, people on the street, etc. I would suggest).

the logic that you guys are using kills your own argument of why clubs would even want last call abolished If, as it seems you're suggesting, people aren't going to really drink any more than they do now (I say that's crap)...then why bother aboloshing last call? Bars and clubs would be seeing the same (or similar) revenue as they do now, but have now have to pay for their bar staff to stick around for the whole night? that's just silly, isn't it?

Restaurants probably won't see much difference in business because most close before last call anyway, and the ones that don't aren't going to stay open all night just because people can drink.

Abolishing last call simply because a few people don't appreciate our overly paternalistic gov't is not going to happen either I think last call could be extended to 3 or 4 am without much fuss, but I just don't see widespread support for abolishing it, regardless of whether or not it would be a good thing...there's just no demand for this change to take place amongst the bulk of our society, wouldn't you say?

I agree...extend drinking hours but don't abolish last call. I know sometimes Walter Mindz and I get to a party really late and we only have enough time for one beer...that sucks.

First of all the bulk of society is over 40 so you are right, there is not much use for it.

Second, im not saying liquor sales would go up or down. ALl im saying is that it would be more paced rather than drinking yourself silly to beat last call which is what many people do now. Thirdly, this law is outdated due to the fact that when i started going to clubs the average time a club filled up was 930-10. Now its 1130-1. Id say that the laws need to keep up with that change. Fourth, if we extend last call, people can go home on their own accord. Do you honestly think that just because people can drink at 5am means they are going to stay up that late? Some will, most wont.
Lastly, if we are to call ourselves a socially progressive nation this is definately something that would fall in line with it. Imagine telling a european that he cant drink at 5am. Trust me, in my line of work i have to tell many europeans that very often and all i get is a look of bewilderment and the question "why?" to which i cant answer.

well, let's see what's going on in England as we speak:

Panorama: "Cldnt Give a XXXX 4 Lst Ordrs" will be broadcast on BBC One on Sunday, 6 June 2004 at 22:15 BST

Every weekend city centres across Britain are transformed. When the shoppers leave, the clubbers move in, in their thousands.

For young drinkers, the High Street at night has become an alcoholic nirvana. But for many others it's seen increasingly as a vulgar, intimidating battleground to be avoided at all costs.

With 1.2 million incidents of alcohol related violence each year, even the government is now talking of some town centres as 'no go' zones.

So how did this happen and who is responsible? Panorama reveals how the drinks industry drove a legal coach and horses through the liquor licensing system taking on the country's once feared liquor licensing authorities and breaking them down with devastating effect.

As one of the trade's new breed of high powered specialist lawyers tells the programme: "It wasn't an equal contest at all".

The breakthrough case was in Nottingham, where Panorama spent a night following the emergency services as they struggle to deal with 50,000 drinkers on the square-mile drinking circuit (which now boasts a total of 356 bars).

These young drinkers would have been part of the constituency courted by the government three years ago with the text message: Cldnt give a XXXX 4 lst ordrs? Vote Labour 4 extra time'.

But, as the programme explores, is the government's decision to call time on last orders at 11 really the best way to deal with this country's growing drink problem?

Or will it, in the words of one Chief Constable, backfire and create "a 24 hour version of what we've got now - and that is my idea of hell".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ama/3742481.stm


further to the topic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ama/3766637.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ama/3766275.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3702587.stm

yes definately! last call ruined a supposably unforgetful evening!!!

there's a stretch of 200m on a street called crescent where's theres about 30 clubs/bars. when everything closes at 3am, everyone comes out at the same time and it creates lots of heat.


356 bars in a square mile? !!?!?!?


thats the real problem i think...

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi give the peoples the choice, they (the majority) will make the right choices for themselves!

Ahahaha that's a good one.

Even if we are to assume this to be true, people are worried about the minority who do not make the right choices and endanger other people at the same time.

Jay, every city is not equal, in spite of what the Liberal airheads love to tell us about every single thing on the planet being equal to every single other thing. The Toronto downtown core is a VERY different area from London or even Montreal. There may not be 356 bars in a square mile but there are a shit load, and it already gets rough out there on some nights.

The layout is different, the demographics are different, and the general attitude is different from other world cities. You can't simply make an analogy between two of them when there are so many fundamental differences. It just doesn't work that way, and that very same attitude is what's responsible for so many of the existing problems in our city (crime, traffic congestion, crappy schools, etc.).

That said, I think the last call is stupid for the majority, but there are probably still a small minority who would very quickly show us the reason we had last call in the first place if we chose to abolish it.

the only point you make is that everything from everything else is different...

thats some major hot air

quote:

Originally posted by malek the only point you make is that everything from everything else is different... thats some major hot air

HAHAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im still not convinced that Torontonians would not be able to handle an abolishment of last call. The only thing it would do is make the cops work later to patrol the downtown district.

any of u thoguth abou tthis???

people take only a certain amount of cash to a club to limit themselves to how much they burst and also how much they drink.

now say the person enters the club at 12am cos of a long lineup and has money for 6 drinks.

with last call at 2am: 6 drinks in 2 hours = definite retardedness afterwards
with last call non existant: 6 drinks in at least 4 hours = pleasent longer lasting buzz

another thing that no/later last call would encourage is alcohol consumption rather than drug intake. since the bar closes at 2 and the headliner tends to start at 2 itself, drugs seem to be the only way to get a buzz post 2am

yup, dropping last callw ould definately help cut down drug consumption in the long run too. But sadly most politicians dont live in the real world and think about things like this.

quote:

Originally posted by malek the only point you make is that everything from everything else is different... thats some major hot air

You're right in saying that's the main point I'm making, but I don't see how you can refer to it as hot air. It is precisely the point that every city and even every suburb is different, and therefore you can't expect the same results from implementing a policy in one city as you would in another.

Think of speed limits, for example. The Autobahn has no speed limit in the left lane, people can drive as fast as they want, and it's one of the safest highways in the world. In Ontario, the speed limit used to be 120 and the highways were getting 10-car pileups. The demographics and attitudes are different, and if we made our highways exactly like the Autobahn they would still not be safe because of the people that drive on them.

For anyone with even the most fundamental critical thinking faculties, it shouldn't be too hard to apply the same logic to last call. Yes, all-day drinking works in some places, but that does NOT automatically mean it will work here. It doesn't automatically mean that it *won't* work, either, but when you're in government you tend to be a little cautious about such things.

Jay, as always you're full of rhetoric but have yet to make any cogent argument. Do you have a point, are you just bitching and moaning as usual?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Think of speed limits, for example. The Autobahn has no speed limit in the left lane...

aaaaahhh maaaaaannn!!! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!?!? LOOOOOOLLL!!!!

quote:

and if we made our highways exactly like the Autobahn they would still not be safe because of the people that drive on them.

whatttt??? LOOOL! this is even more of a ridiculous statement than the first one!


seriously ...do a reality check, mate!

quote:

For anyone with even the most fundamental critical thinking faculties, it shouldn't be too hard to apply the same logic to last call. Yes, all-day drinking works in some places, but that does NOT automatically mean it will work here. It doesn't automatically mean that it *won't* work, either, but when you're in government you tend to be a little cautious about such things. Jay, as always you're full of rhetoric but have yet to make any cogent argument. Do you have a point, are you just bitching and moaning as usual!

how can you apply the same logic to something where 'everything is different in different places'? HAHAHAHA!!!

you're just full of sh**! whatever...go back to your books on 'critical & logical thinking'. take a hint and get out more often!

...and one last thing -stop being so derogatory to other members just cos they have a different opinion from yours and doesn't fit into your warped sense of logic!

oh! i'm sooory ...you're mr know-it-all! i forgot! whatever anyone's says you will find some kind of justification for your own fabricated BS! ...just so that YOU'RE right! stop feeding off other ppl's energy! it's weak!

oh and by the way - don't even bother with any of your dirty, below-the-belt come backs cos they just won't pull with me or anyone else, who sees right through you!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut The Autobahn has no speed limit in the left lane, people can drive as fast as they want, and it's one of the safest highways in the world.

AND? your point is? ... 'give the peoples the freedom of choice and they will make the right choice for themselves.' -yes, that was my argument and is my belief!

> your giving yourself the answer within the argument and tripping over your own feet, all at the same time, without even noticing it! HAHAHA!!!

you're shot down! better go and pull in that tail of yours -and FAST!

Diginut: just because you dont agree with my arguements does not necissarily mean it's not cogent.

I find this ironic considering your Autobahn statement is quite reaching.

I do happen to agree with you though when you say that different cultures respond differently to different things. However im still not convinced that extending last call or abolishing it will make a difference in violence, excessive drinking etc. In fact for all the reasons i have stated i believe it would remain the same or even have an opposite effect since you wouldnt have everyone pouring out onto the streets at the same time after downing 5 rounds at last call.

PS the OPP actually advocates raising the speed limit to 120. In Michigan (arguably the most similar culture to us) i read a study that highway safety actually went up since they raised the limit to 70 mph (120 kmph)

to conclude:

it seems we've discussed this for long enough, so i'll give you the priviledge of 'hearing' my final thoughts.

all the points up until this far are moot. here is why:

if you consider society an organism, as known theorists have, there will inevitably be dysfunctional or ill parts of it.

here is how our discussion fits in: people will always act out and express societal dysfunctions regardless of what time the bars close or what speed limit the highways have. so continue your argument, if you must, but know that it's a waste of time because the answers that you find are useless if you're not asking the right questions!

class dismissed.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee any of u thoguth abou tthis??? people take only a certain amount of cash to a club to limit themselves to how much they burst and also how much they drink. now say the person enters the club at 12am cos of a long lineup and has money for 6 drinks. with last call at 2am: 6 drinks in 2 hours = definite retardedness afterwards with last call non existant: 6 drinks in at least 4 hours = pleasent longer lasting buzz another thing that no/later last call would encourage is alcohol consumption rather than drug intake. since the bar closes at 2 and the headliner tends to start at 2 itself, drugs seem to be the only way to get a buzz post 2am

LKD, if last call is pushed back or removed, all of this will change and won't apply anymore.

last call is 3am over here, so people show up at 1am everything is different, lineup times are different too, etc etc... just because our last call is one hour later. So imagine if its 1 hour later, or 4 hours later...

dj start at different hours too, other forms of clubs appear (afterhours) etc etc...

in regular top 40 clubs where doors close when alcohol stops flowing, there's almost no drugs in the club. Drug users go to other places.

So, i frankly believe that even if last call would be removed, drug usage wouldn't change. Just move somewhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by malek So, i frankly believe that even if last call would be removed, drug usage wouldn't change. Just move somewhere else.

that's the point. that goes for any restriction or ban.

...society at large is where it begins. it has failed the weakest. 'frustrations' and violence will find an outlet in one way or another, no matter what the label and how many 'bandaids' are used.

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