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apology accepted...we all got carried away...besides were not here to have flame wars...


MAKE PEACE NOT LOVE

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway A 30mm automatic Boeing M230 Chain Gun, designed to penetrate armor plating.

Surprise surprise when you start critising an american they start going on about how good their toys are (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation).

And the fact that you never saw the whole movie speaks volumes.

The cut one just shows the "RGP" then all the "cool" bits where people get killed.

The full one shows the pipe a tractor pulling up and people trying to fix it.

So lets put it this way do you see an unarmed person ingured rolling about on the ground as a legit target? No? Either does international law.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Surprise surprise when you start critising an american they start going on about how good their toys are (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation). And the fact that you never saw the whole movie speaks volumes. The cut one just shows the "RGP" then all the "cool" bits where people get killed. The full one shows the pipe a tractor pulling up and people trying to fix it. So lets put it this way do you see an unarmed person ingured rolling about on the ground as a legit target? No? Either does international law.

Surprise, surprise, when you start critising a anti-american they start going on about how they take every word said and take them out of context. (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation).

A) I mentioned the ammunition type because I was referring to the wounds the iraqi was suffering, which in this case unfortunately most likely life ending.
b) Seeing the full video doesn't mean my comments about it have no merits. Again, if you read carefully, I don't preach killing but it is part of war. I could easily say, the video of the American's beheading was a crime.
C) Internationla laws are often loss in war, atrocities have been done by both sides.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway C) Internationla laws are often loss in war, atrocities have been done by both sides.

See thats what I'm saying! You recon it's "inevitable" for atrocities to happen?

Well what I am saying is that if they do happen then the perp has to be taken to justice (that is the way law works).

Whats the point of liberating a place to pass on your values when you don't apply thouse values yourself (sticking to the law)?

Hence as I said the pilots should be treated as criminals. Even if it was a mistake (which it would need to have been a muscle twitch on the trigger to be) it would still be gross negligence. >>>LIKE HERE<<< if you ask me there should be more pilots charged for all the friendly and civillian fire incidents.

Also I never took you out of context.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish See thats what I'm saying! You recon it's "inevitable" for atrocities to happen? Well what I am saying is that if they do happen then the perp has to be taken to justice (that is the way law works). Whats the point of liberating a place to pass on your values when you don't apply thouse values yourself (sticking to the law)? Hence as I said the pilots should be treated as criminals. Even if it was a mistake (which it would need to have been a muscle twitch on the trigger to be) it would still be gross negligence. >>>LIKE HERE<<< if you ask me there should be more pilots charged for all the friendly and civillian fire incidents. Also I never took you out of context.

So... should the Iraqis who bomb police stations and US camps be taken to court also? Mind you they accomplished killing more civilians in their "liberation bombings" then their intended targets.

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Originally posted by DjSway So... should the Iraqis who bomb police stations and US camps be taken to court also? Mind you they accomplished killing more civilians in their "liberation bombings" then their intended targets.

Emmm well what would you do with them? If you caught one unarmed? Of course they would goto court.....

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Originally posted by Dervish Emmm well what would you do with them? If you caught one unarmed? Of course they would goto court.....

Ya but I think your missing my point here, these iraqis who bomb for so called "liberation" also kill at the same time their own people, children included! Why dont you get mad at them? This is again, as I said the ugly face of war, do they follow internation laws?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway Ya but I think your missing my point here, these iraqis who bomb for so called "liberation" also kill at the same time their own people, children included! Why dont you get mad at them? This is again, as I said the ugly face of war, do they follow internation laws?

I don't like them either. They will have international law applied to them. And what a great way to make it ok.... they are doing bad stuff so we can. Someone else doing wrong doesn't mean you can.

quote:

Originally posted by Arg Actually the reason was to remove a global threat and any mass destruction weapons within the area; but thanks for playing anyway. Funny how the focus suddenly went from prevention of war to "peace" when they figured out there were no mass destruction weapons, eh?

The goal was to bring down Saddam Hussein as well as any weapons of mass destruction. Those who Saddam threatened the most were his own people, who were often the victims of his Chemical Weapons program. The videos you should be watching are the ones of the Iraqi people cheering as American soldiers took down the statue of Saddam. Those Iraqi's, the educated and non-religious extremests, obviously wanted us there. The Iraqi's still fighting are shooting their own police officers, and bombing their own towns. It surprises me how much sympathy they are drawing here.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish I don't like them either. They will have international law applied to them. And what a great way to make it ok.... they are doing bad stuff so we can. Someone else doing wrong doesn't mean you can.

Again, you're taking me out of context, when did I say that they can?
I'm talking about how war has its ugly face and laws are not always followed. Do you really think that these iraqis will have international laws applied to them?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway No sympathy for those people in the video.. War is ugly for both sides, if you think these pilots gave a hoot, do you think Iraqi fighters give a hoot about US soldiers too? Since I'm not on their side (Iraqis), I'm glad it was them on the receiving end this time.

Thouse Iraqis if caught will have the law applied to them. And thouse pilots who as you put it "don't give a hoot" about killing innocents should have the law applied to them. It is the way our (western) society works.

Yes war is ugly but our troops need to completely obay the law. If they do not then they are criminals and should be treated as such. Otherwise we have compromised ourselfs and wour way of life.

I don't think war will never be "civilized", not fully at least.

I'm not talking about it being civilised just that our troops have to stick to the law.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish I'm not talking about it being civilised just that our troops have to stick to the law.

Well, maybe after the prisoner photos, but anywhere else on the battlefield I doubt it.

NO thats the most important place to uphold the law.

Perhaps the hardest but still the most important.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish NO thats the most important place to uphold the law. Perhaps the hardest but still the most important.

I tell you what, I'll admint it first, my words don't count here. Why? Because I'm not there, defending my life, wondering if the next minute some iraqi "freedom fighter" will aim an ak47 or an RPG at my ass, I'm not there eating sand and heat for breakfast, not there loosing my good friends, seeing stuff that we can only imagine.
I hope I won't ever have to be in that situation, and this is because of the brave soldier who are doing it for us!
As much as we critize their action, they only wish they could be home.

You talk about upholding laws and such, but I wont take your word for it. Not unless you go there yourself and do a full tour of duty.

Cop out. Utter cop out.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Cop out. Utter cop out.

Hum... really? I don't see you at your local recruiting office.

Even more cop out ("My name is Dj Sway, I don't know what I'm talking about and what he makes sence *whine* *whine* mmmmmm well your not in Iraq you don't know *whine**whine*").

Any professional soldier will tell you that breaking the international laws of war is a, and I quote, "a career abortive act". Not only that but it just isn't done. Seriously. The pilots were gung ho and irresponsible. And wrong. And negligent. They acted in an unprofessional manner and if they were in the Britsh army they would be gone by now. The fact that British and Candian and so on pilots have had 0 friendly fire attacks and the Americans have had heeps since Gulf War 1 speaks volumes. The USA doesn't treat these incidents with the proper care. Fire first think later. Actually scratch the the think later bit.

I'm getting bored with your non posts. And I can't belive you'd actually try the ultimate cop out.

Also I considered joining the Navy and the RAF. But what the fuck does that have to do with my ability to know that our troops which represent us are paid for by us should act in a manner the very nation which sent them there behaves. You obviously think this is some frigging game. I know your gonna gone out with the "no it's you that thinks it is if you think they can 'obay laws'" but trust me there would be no point in them being there if they didn't obay the law.

Even during WW1 + 2 the laws were obayed a much more serious situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Even more cop out ("My name is Dj Sway, I don't know what I'm talking about and what he makes sence *whine* *whine* mmmmmm well your not in Iraq you don't know *whine**whine*"). Any professional soldier will tell you that breaking the international laws of war is a, and I quote, "a career abortive act". Not only that but it just isn't done. Seriously. The pilots were gung ho and irresponsible. And wrong. And negligent. They acted in an unprofessional manner and if they were in the Britsh army they would be gone by now. The fact that British and Candian and so on pilots have had 0 friendly fire attacks and the Americans have had heeps since Gulf War 1 speaks volumes. The USA doesn't treat these incidents with the proper care. Fire first think later. Actually scratch the the think later bit. I'm getting bored with your non posts. And I can't belive you'd actually try the ultimate cop out. Also I considered joining the Navy and the RAF. But what the fuck does that have to do with my ability to know that our troops which represent us are paid for by us should act in a manner the very nation which sent them there behaves. You obviously think this is some frigging game. I know your gonna gone out with the "no it's you that thinks it is if you think they can 'obay laws'" but trust me there would be no point in them being there if they didn't obay the law. Even during WW1 + 2 the laws were obayed a much more serious situation.

Huh? I'm sorry I lost you here, I never said they shouldn't follow laws. You're getting bored with my non posts? Hahaha, you actually amuse me with yours! It's so funny to see someone so judgemental and critize everything from the comfort of his chair.
I think you not being there has alot to do with your ability to know what are troops are doing there. It's like the stuff they teach you in school, rarely applies to real world situations.
Is this a frigging game? Hum.. I didn't know we were playing.
And what do you mean cop out? What am I coping out of? By admitting that I don't know because I'm not there? Well my dear boy..
isn't that true?
No seriously, go do a full tour of duty in Irak, come back alive and then I will give you respect.

What I've been trying to do is educate you. You simply aren't smart enough to understand.

EDIT:Try posting your bullshit there and see what happens >>>> >>>LINK<<<

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish What I've been trying to do is educate you. You simply aren't smart enough to understand. EDIT:Try posting your bullshit there and see what happens >>>> >>>LINK<<<

Bullshit? What bullshit? I don't get you, all I'm asking is for you to experience what the soldiers are experiencing first hand, get shot a a few times, shot back a few times, drive around a humvee praying that the next corner won't hold some home made bomb ready to blow you to pieces, you know, fun stuff they do in irak.

You've changed what your saying, before it was about how it was ace how thouse Iraqis were getting shot up, then it was about how breaking international law, now it's about whiether I've been to Iraq your a fanny and your not worth talking to.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish You've changed what your saying, before it was about how it was ace how thouse Iraqis were getting shot up, then it was about how breaking international law, now it's about whiether I've been to Iraq your a fanny and your not worth talking to.

huh.. I never said it was ace for them to shoot the Irakis, I commenting on how war is ugly and how I'd rather have an iraqi at the end of a barrel then a coalition soldier. As bad as it may sound.
Anyways, what's a fanny? and please talk to me!!!! I'm a human being for Chris sake! I have feelings too!

BTW,
what laws are these guys breaking?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5196406/

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