Sasha Mixing on CPU & ditching prog :P

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Posted by davedresden on Jun-21-2004 19:26:

the art of djing is being able to have musical taste that will excite the dj's audience and also when to play a certain record or how to hold the eq back to maximize the payoff. these are things that dumb monkeys can't and prob will never be able to perfect. you all sound like drummers complaining when the drum machine was introduced. where would any of us be without a drum machine?

- dave

quote:
Originally posted by Choobak
Well, I've gotta explain what I was talking about now. It's pretty easy to see how automation can lead to both good and bad things. Automation can allow for innovation and creativity by removing some of the more tedious tasks in life. In the case of our dj we're talking about beatmatching, of course, and making it easier for the dj to add personal touches to his or her sets. I'm all for this. That's why I was talking about moving towards the live production type stuff. It definitely seems like djing as we know it now has progressed about as far as it can and we need to embrace new things like ableton to take everything further. Imagine sets completely personalized to suit a djs style. Imagine if every track in every dj set were completely personalized by the dj. How incredible would it be to hear something like Politics of Dancing or Involver done completely live? That is the future of djing....

Now, there's also the bad side of automation. I mean, when you have something as powerful as ableton it's not too hard to picture a dj simply automating his dj set without personalizing it. All the tracks match up (reasonably well at least... after seeing and hearing ableton live I'm kind of skeptical how well people can do it) but the set lacks style. It's a virtual McDonaldization of djing and is not the direction we should be going in. With this dj McDonaldization the dj puts no effort into the mix and his sets become incredibly lame. It's really obvious when a dj is not trying and it comes through in the quality of the set. Back at Avalon this year Josh's set felt a bit like that. The whole thing wasn't as personal as it could have been. It was danceable but nothing incredible.

I'm a big fan of CDJ's. They have great automation features but also keep a lot of the pure old school dj stuff intact. They don't allow for McDonaldization and DJ laziness and it's incredible what you can do with them with a little creativity (Zabiela!). I remember when you guys came to Arc about a year ago and were using those badboys. I loved that set. You guys were throwing down samples, loops, and accapellas; really making a super stylish personalized set. I didn't get that same feeling at Avalon though so it was kind of disappointing.

Keep innovating though! I've got a feeling you guys can do a lot with ableton....

Posted by sandstorm03 on Jun-21-2004 19:43:

i think people see vinyl as more of a personal thing, then using computers.

Just as writing mail, or sending an e-mail.

Posted by dj tek on Jun-21-2004 19:45:

quote:
Originally posted by davedresden
the art of djing is being able to have musical taste that will excite the dj's audience and also when to play a certain record or how to hold the eq back to maximize the payoff. these are things that dumb monkeys can't and prob will never be able to perfect.

- dave

but how will that be effective if you mix like shit ??? all the stuff youve mentioned is correct but one problem, if you fuck up a mix, the energy level drops down drmatically..

mixing is an artform.. ability to manually mix 2 tracks and see the world it creates for that transition period is unexplanable... some djs have the natuaral ear for it.. some djs, not really.. basically, some mix better than others cuz its done naturally, judging from human ears.. now i dont have a problem with technology and i dont know exactly what ableton does for you[in terms of mixing..]but if youre using a softwear program to get by the original way of mixing tracks, and letting the computer do it for you, i find that completely irrelevant to the art of djing.. i think that products like final scratch is great because it doenst take away anything from the natural djing process, it just helps you to use more tracks in your sets and gets rid of the luggage that you will be having if youre spinning all vinyl..

thats why you hear good mixers and bad mixers and great mixers because some are jsut naturally better mixers than others.. but if its done thru computers, the shittiest mixers would pull off the dopest transitions.. thats fuckin retarded imo.. softwears should enhance the art of djing, not take away from it. and also no matter how much it evolves, ppl mixing on laptop wont be viewed as real 'djing'.. djing and live pa is totally different.. both has its advantages and disadvantages...

Posted by stevebutabi on Jun-21-2004 19:49:

tek you are absolutely right.

in addition, it's fucking lame to go to a show and just see the dj playing around on his laptop. it's just entertaining to watch someone spin records... at least to me. why don't you just put a fucking robot up on stage.

Posted by sandstorm03 on Jun-21-2004 19:51:

quote:
tek you are absolutely right.

in addition, it's fucking lame to go to a show and just see the dj playing around on his laptop. it's just entertaining to watch someone spin records... at least to me. why don't you just put a fucking robot up on stage.

are djs mixing in final scratch or using the tables to mix? I think they are just useing the labtop to increase their trackselection, and possibly to introduce samples. But djs still mix with the vinyl/mixer.

Posted by Choobak on Jun-21-2004 19:56:

I wouldn't say people mixing on a laptop wouldn't be seen as real djing. The way we are djing now has been around forever for like 30 years now. A change has been due for a while now and all this new technology is making it possible. Everything's progressing towards a mix of live pa and regular djing as we know it. It's been like that for while. I mean people have been sampling and scratching and adding effects and all that ever since the tools allowed them to do it. It's all about personalizing your set. So what's next? Going even further and totally altering the songs you play with new basslines, synths, or whatever. That wasn't possible before without a full on pa system but it's toally becoming more possible now with just a simple laptop.

Sure, it's lame if a dj lets his laptop "auto-dj." But if he uses it to good effect it would be awesome...

Sorry dave, but josh's set was a real turnoff. It sounded like he was really letting it "auto-dj."

Posted by pyro264jb on Jun-21-2004 19:57:

quote:
Originally posted by sandstorm03
are djs mixing in final scratch or using the tables to mix? I think they are just useing the labtop to increase their trackselection, and possibly to introduce samples. But djs still mix with the vinyl/mixer.

Your talking about Final Scratch not Albeton. FS is still making djs mix as opposed to Albeton (a program that matches the mix for you)

Posted by sandstorm03 on Jun-21-2004 20:05:

quote:
Albeton

i dont know that but you can beatmatch in fs/traktor

Posted by stevebutabi on Jun-21-2004 20:20:

it's fucking pathetic if any dj needs a computer to beatmatch for him.

Posted by dj tek on Jun-21-2004 20:31:

quote:
Originally posted by stevebutabi
it's fucking pathetic if any dj needs a computer to beatmatch for him.

its like, some ppl cant sing, so they cant be singers.. same with djs.. some ppl just cannot mix..

Posted by fr0st on Jun-21-2004 20:51:

Personally I could careless what media im using to play sound...What ever works for the crowd thats the important part...

Posted by DJ_Lord on Jun-21-2004 21:44:

Enjoy the Future...

Posted by dj1212 on Jun-21-2004 23:44:

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