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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I've always been amused by the "straight shooters" here. In my experience, 9 out of 10 have never tried or even seen a pill. How can you profess to be "above" something you don't even understand? Very few people actually *need* drugs to enjoy a party - they use them for fun, just like other people use alcohol, it doesn't mean that they're "fooling" themselves when they're taking vitamins. It's been my observation that many of the hardcore sober sisters and brothers who always rag on the rollers don't practice what they preach - they think they're special because they're less susceptible to peer pressure, and yet in order to have a good time they need to have the #1 popular DJ in their midst. Let me tell you something, drugs are like sex in a way, we can all live without it but abstinence doesn't necessarily make us better people. Not that there's anything wrong with partying sober, it's just the disdain toward everyone else that I think is ignorant and misinformed. Unfortunately most of the public has the same view of drugs, and moreso, of raves or rave-related topics in general. I don't mind police attention to fire code issues, but media attention can't be good. Media culture thrives on blowing things out of proportion and it gives "concerned parents" an excuse to hear what they want to hear instead of learning all the facts. Not good, not good at all.

Werd! I don't even pay attention to those who criticize rollers. It's one thing to dislike the complete crackheads who plow their way through the crowds and disrupt other people's enjoyment...but the majority of the rollers on the dancefloor are just having a good time like everybody else. The "holier than thou" remarks some sober partiers have made is yet another judgemental attitude that, in theory, is not supposed to exist in the EDM scene in the first place.

I agree too that I'd like to see the focus on the safety of the group (safety/fire issues, RIDE programs) vs. monitoring individual behaviour (drug use). If parents are "so concerned" about their kids...then PARENT THEM and get involved in their lives instead of crying that the club scene is sooooo full of dangerous drug behaviour No way in hell my mom would have put up with me coming home cracked out of my mind at 16...and even if I came home the next day, "down", she'd have noticed

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Well there two deaths related to extasy not long ago...and there was a big hoop laa about it too in the media and everything...and someone I know head a heart attack - also extasy and drug related...and there are more cases that kinda go under the radar... They aren't hurting someone else but themselves...that's the problem

do they *ever* release the toxicology reports on those "ecstasy related" deaths? Did they actually take e? Did they drink? We're they dehydrated? take other drugs too? Did they have a pre-existing medical condition? etc. etc. etc. I get really pissed off when there are reports of "ecstasy related" deaths...um...if booze and e did it, why isn't it an "alcohol related" death"? Because that's not exciting reporting...which is irresponsible journalism (and all too typical of our media outlets).

I still have a hard time believing that any healthy individual here has died simply from dosing...and given the far superior # of ALCOHOL related accidentes and deaths from club goers driving home wasted, for example, is there really any reason to focus so much on the drug aspect of club life? I don't think so.

If people want to "hurt themselves" vs people potentially putting others at risk (drinking & driving, speeding, etc)...I say leave the former alone and focus on the latter!

A lot of what we're told are ecstasy-related deaths are bad pills (like PMA or DXM), or people who drink a lot of alcohol beforehand (I'm still surprised at the number of people who do this), or people who don't bother to eduate themselves and drink not enough/too much water and do it when they don't have any friends around to take care of them.

I don't doubt that there have been ecstasy related deaths, but I'm willing to put money on the fact that most of them are really stupidity-related deaths.

Releasing the toxicology reports would only make it harder for the media and the government to win their "war on drugs".

quote:

Originally posted by k la And this is a bad thing because? There are many cities that didnt have ridiculous laws imposed and the scene still died.

really? name them...

Food for thought:

LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH in the USA in 1996:
(unless year marked otherwise)
Total deaths........................................... 2,322,265
____________________________________________

1. Heart Disease....................................... 733,834
2. Cancer.............................................. 544,278
3. Stroke.............................................. 160,431
4. Adverse Drug Reactions (1994) from legal drugs at doses used for prevention, diagnosis, or therapy.............. 106,000
5. Pulmonary disease................................ 106,146
6. Accidents............................................ 93,874
7. Pneumonia/influenza............................... 82,579
8. Diabetes............................................. 61,559
9. HIV/AIDS............................................ 32,665
10. Suicide.............................................. 30,862
11. Liver disease........................................ 25,135
14. Homicide............................................. 20,738

ILLICIT DRUG OVERDOSE.............................3,800 to 5,200
(Deliberate or accidental) from all illegal drugs.


According to the Centers for Disease Control, National Center for Health Statistics, and the Journal of American Medical Association (for adverse drug reactions death numbers; April 14, 1998 issue of JAMA; 279: 1200-1205, 1998).

Great article from Harpers in 1999: http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic...i_54492296/pg_1

Interesting Site: http://www.olywa.net/when/main.html (I don't agree with everything on this site, but the author points out an interesting viewpoint on the less)

quote:

Originally posted by k la And this is a bad thing because? There are many cities that didnt have ridiculous laws imposed and the scene still died.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 really? name them...

Almost every city in North America. You could argue that laws in Toronto and New York City helped slow down the scenes in those two cities, otherwise besides maybe one or two clubs at most in a city things are toast compared to the way they were, and no laws made that happen. Some people say the Rave Act in the US killed shit, thats bullshit - it didn't - things were already dying.

id like to see how many people here who claim to be clean, actually drink? I find all to often that drinking just gets swept under the rug, when the topic of harder illegal drugs comes around. If you are putting soemthing in your body, then you are taking drugs, period. Dont try and side step the point, just because one is legal.

quote:

Originally posted by bucky Almost every city in North America. You could argue that laws in Toronto and New York City helped slow down the scenes in those two cities, otherwise besides maybe one or two clubs at most in a city things are toast compared to the way they were, and no laws made that happen. Some people say the Rave Act in the US killed shit, thats bullshit - it didn't - things were already dying.

Other than new york, LA and miami i never really heard of any massives going on. At best 3000 people. There was never really a rave scene per se in the US like there was in Toronto. As for clubs in major cities. Giliani pretty much killed new york nightlife, the 2 am curfews killed chicago and detroit as well as LA. The only place that didnt crack down was miami and guess what? Tens of thousands of people showed up for the Ultra Music festival.

The regulations and "crackdowns" definately had the most significant effects on the rave scene in north america.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko id like to see how many people here who claim to be clean, actually drink? I find all to often that drinking just gets swept under the rug, when the topic of harder illegal drugs comes around. If you are putting soemthing in your body, then you are taking drugs, period. Dont try and side step the point, just because one is legal.

I don't drink...only sometimes on occasion i'll have a martini when I go to some nice place, and maybe something small at a club...but at least when I go to the guv I don't drink But you can't compare having a martini to taking serious drugs Besides it has also been established that things like red wine once in a while with dinner or so are actually good for your heart ... But I don't really drink wine either...lol the taste for some reason doesn't appeal to me

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher I don't drink...only sometimes on occasion i'll have a martini when I go to some nice place, and maybe something small at a club...but at least when I go to the guv I don't drink But you can't compare having a martini to taking serious drugs Besides it has also been established that things like red wine once in a while with dinner or so are actually good for your heart ... But I don't really drink wine either...lol the taste for some reason doesn't appeal to me

yeah i know booze isnt nearly as bad as pills, but people who drink a lot, can and do get totally out of hand. i dont think those fights are caused by pot heads or pill munchers, they are just way to spaced out to start a fight. Alcohol just enrages a lot of people, which is why i think its bad.

But yes i do drink, but not ver often, and im alway in control. if would do anything if i wanst in control.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The regulations and "crackdowns" definately had the most significant effects on the rave scene in north america.

Only in the big cities (NY, Chicago, LA, etc).. the most significant effect is that most people in North America like 'popular' music, those people found raves - found the drugs - got burned out - went back to there regular clubs. In most cities over the last decade it was a small group of promoters throwing events, those promoters grew up, got careers and moved on - noone ever stepped in to take there place. I'm not just talking about "massives" either.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko yeah i know booze isnt nearly as bad as pills, but people who drink a lot, can and do get totally out of hand. i dont think those fights are caused by pot heads or pill munchers, they are just way to spaced out to start a fight. Alcohol just enrages a lot of people, which is why i think its bad. But yes i do drink, but not ver often, and im alway in control. if would do anything if i wanst in control.

hey i drink a heck lot, but i dont go about fighting with people.

Re: Re: Entertainment District targetted by Police!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Not to be harsh but......... It looks like they will be going after Boa and the Zone too. Folks get a clue, when the general public starts focussing in on the club scene, ITS NEVER A GOOD THING FOR PARTIERS!

Jay it seems that whenever you start to make some sense, your foot intervenes , and it jumps straight into your mouth!!!!
Yes it is true that when the general public ie: the politicians start focussing on the party scene it eventually leads to the downfall of the later. But that is also brought on by irresponsible operators who thumb their nose at the laws and bring about unwanted scrutiny.
Boa was scrutinized by the Police ( 14 division) and still is regularly,but we have never been charged or warned because we respect our capacity limitations, and our drug policies are very strict, and most importantly our security and bartenders are not part time dealers.
Your opinion is intelligent on the surface, but your underhanded comparison of Boa and the Zone is ignorant since you've never been to Boa!!! perhaps you should look closer to home for large scale narcotics use and distribution!!! Lucky for the Guv they are in 51 division.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Food for thought: LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH in the USA in 1996: (unless year marked otherwise) Total deaths........................................... 2,322,265 ____________________________________________ 1. Heart Disease....................................... 733,834 2. Cancer.............................................. 544,278 3. Stroke.............................................. 160,431 4. Adverse Drug Reactions (1994) from legal drugs at doses used for prevention, diagnosis, or therapy.............. 106,000 5. Pulmonary disease................................ 106,146 6. Accidents............................................ 93,874 7. Pneumonia/influenza............................... 82,579 8. Diabetes............................................. 61,559 9. HIV/AIDS............................................ 32,665 10. Suicide.............................................. 30,862 11. Liver disease........................................ 25,135 14. Homicide............................................. 20,738

OK hold on. 2 000 000 deaths, 20 000 of them murders... maybe my math is wrong, but does this mean that 1 of every 100 people in the US gets murdered? HOLY SHIT!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I hope someone points them in Guv's direction!

It probably won't do anything. Most likely there are corrupt cops that get paid off or something.

Boa: if you dont think this club "crackdown" won't affect your club as well you are naive. All clubs in the city should be worried because even if you are in the right, politicians and media will find you in the wrong.

People have short memories. Remember the crackdown of 2000 and also remember how the general public treated Sars last year. Especially the media!

Also, LUCID last saturday was blocked off by about 7-10 cops on horses. They closed their doors at 12:00. So stupid. Then at the end of hte night some girl was od'ing on the sidewalk beside Milestones.. where were they then? Nowhere.

they should close the entertainment district off to cars after 9 or 10 on friday and saturday nights. After all, they would for just about any other big event going on.

^^^ excellent idea...no cars + more cops on foot patrol = ditch the stupid camera plans.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Elyot OK hold on. 2 000 000 deaths, 20 000 of them murders... maybe my math is wrong, but does this mean that 1 of every 100 people in the US gets murdered? HOLY SHIT!!!

that's pretty crazy.

your chance of getting stabbed or shot is greater than dying of a drug use.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Elyot OK hold on. 2 000 000 deaths, 20 000 of them murders... maybe my math is wrong, but does this mean that 1 of every 100 people in the US gets murdered? HOLY SHIT!!!

Well your math is ok, but the statement is a little incorrect. It means that 1 of every 100 deaths is homicide. It does not mean 1 out of every 100 people in the US is murdered. HAHAHAHA

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Boa: if you dont think this club "crackdown" won't affect your club as well you are naive. All clubs in the city should be worried because even if you are in the right, politicians and media will find you in the wrong. People have short memories. Remember the crackdown of 2000 and also remember how the general public treated Sars last year. Especially the media!

You missed the point Jay. Boa was simply disagreeing with being lumped in with the Zone. They even stated that they are under constant scrutiny.

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch Well your math is ok, but the statement is a little incorrect. It means that 1 of every 100 deaths is homicide. It does not mean 1 out of every 100 people in the US is murdered. HAHAHAHA

Well... I'm making the assumption that everybody dies (are you contesting that assumption???).

But seriously... you have to die sometime and there's a 1 in 100 chance that ur gonna go by way of homicide... so on average for every 100 people, 1 of them will get murdered.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ excellent idea...no cars + more cops on foot patrol = ditch the stupid camera plans.

That a lot more expensive and guess who will be slapped with the bill?

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess that's pretty crazy. your chance of getting stabbed or shot is greater than dying of a drug use.

Well.. the chances of being stabbed/shot greately depend on the neighbourhood you are in. These statistics forget to look at that.

Live in safe neighbourhoods and your chances of "survival" will be pretty damn high

quote:

But seriously... you have to die sometime and there's a 1 in 100 chance that ur gonna go by way of homicide...

Again, don't just look at the math... Certain people(those in gangs, those who live in poor neighbourhoods) have much greater chance of dying by homicide than you. Thus your chances of getting stabbed/shot are a lot lower than 0.01

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