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-- but i like john howard!
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I know more younger people pro howard than pro labour i think this is a gross assumption and stereotype

Look at the polls, more younger people like Latham than older people, and consequently less younger people like Howard than Latham. It's quite a large difference too. These polls are probably a better indication than who you know

Tranceilvania, you are funnier than your sig, please keep it coming. I thought Moore's 'documentary' had some disturbing facts and I don;t doubt any of them, and I don't think invading Iraq is good etc etc. But most of it was fluff, with no other motives than to stir up emotions. First 30 min was great . . the rest was personal interest stories. I mean it was almost like watching Today Tonight or something, I was just waiting for the "Sponsered by Hyundai".

Mind you I thought the most disturbing thing was how Bush got into power in the first place, and just shows how truly "democratic" America is.
I did think the 911 thing when Bush found out about the planes with the schoolkids was harsh. I mean seriously what would you do. You can't just run out away from the kids and go nuts. I just thought it was wrong of Moore to manipulate that bit, as I don't blame Bush for doing what he did, I probably would have been so stunned I would've done the same.

Saying that more of the youth favour latham over howard is quite different to saying the youth is ignorant, if you must, say some of, or even most of the youth is ignorant please

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Originally posted by matt_a Look at the polls, more younger people like Latham than older people, and consequently less younger people like Howard than Latham. It's quite a large difference too. These polls are probably a better indication than who you know Tranceilvania, you are funnier than your sig, please keep it coming. I thought Moore's 'documentary' had some disturbing facts and I don;t doubt any of them, and I don't think invading Iraq is good etc etc. But most of it was fluff, with no other motives than to stir up emotions. First 30 min was great . . the rest was personal interest stories. I mean it was almost like watching Today Tonight or something, I was just waiting for the "Sponsered by Hyundai". Mind you I thought the most disturbing thing was how Bush got into power in the first place, and just shows how truly "democratic" America is. I did think the 911 thing when Bush found out about the planes with the schoolkids was harsh. I mean seriously what would you do. You can't just run out away from the kids and go nuts. I just thought it was wrong of Moore to manipulate that bit, as I don't blame Bush for doing what he did, I probably would have been so stunned I would've done the same.

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Originally posted by Nic Saying that more of the youth favour latham over howard is quite different to saying the youth is ignorant, if you must, say some of, or even most of the youth is ignorant please

I didnt say they were, Tranceilvania said they were. I was mocking him because he is a labour supporter and more youth (according to the polls) like Latham. Which means that the ignorant vote for Labour. I didn't think I'd have to make that clear, but obviously you are too ignorant to follow. Jks

Thanks for the comments on my sig Matt. Yes i agree what you say about the 911 doco. As I said its pure propaganda. I just can't take an Australian PM to follow a world renowned dickhead like Dabya Bush in such a blind way unconditionally. I support Lathams policy to pull back our troops before Xmas but i don't like his hair style

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Originally posted by Tranceilvania Thanks for the comments on my sig Matt. Yes i agree what you say about the 911 doco. As I said its pure propaganda. I just can't take an Australian PM to follow a world renowned dickhead like Dabya Bush in such a blind way unconditionally. I support Lathams policy to pull back our troops before Xmas but i don't like his hair style

I think we should call in Carson and the Queer Eye team for a makeover of Latham. Maybe Rach will think he is spunkier then, and another vote to Latham (jokes rach, luv ya )

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Originally posted by matt_a I didnt say they were, Tranceilvania said they were. I was mocking him because he is a labour supporter and more youth (according to the polls) like Latham. Which means that the ignorant vote for Labour. I didn't think I'd have to make that clear, but obviously you are too ignorant to follow. Jks

I didn't say i'm a labor supporter. Greens all the way. I'm a tree lovin hippy EARTHCORE Shepparton here i come

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Originally posted by Tranceilvania I didn't say i'm a labor supporter. Greens all the way. I'm a tree lovin hippy EARTHCORE Shepparton here i come

Sorry I just assumed so. I make too many assumptions.

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Originally posted by matt_a I didnt say they were, Tranceilvania said they were. I was mocking him because he is a labour supporter and more youth (according to the polls) like Latham. Which means that the ignorant vote for Labour. I didn't think I'd have to make that clear, but obviously you are too ignorant to follow. Jks

lol obviously i am, i blame it on the beer i am as 20 minutes ago no longer a teenager :S

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Originally posted by Nic lol obviously i am, i blame it on the beer i am as 20 minutes ago no longer a teenager :S

Ahh thats cool then! Beer is an excuse for everything! Forgetting anniversaries, falling asleep at work, crashing your car, poor performance in bed. "Is there anything Beer can't do!?"

Happy B'day for yesterday mate! I hope you don't have to go to work today

Hahah this theread gettin too long. Don't worry about that DH johny. Who cares? PM's come and go Trance is foreva! (most lame comment on this thread ever!!)

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Originally posted by Tranceilvania in following seconds

LOL I love that pic... classic!!

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Originally posted by matt_a I guess you just answered why Latham is so much more popular amoungst the young people of Australia than the older generations. Because they are ignorant. Wisdom comes with age doesn't it. hahaha, nice one

Has it ever crossed your mind that they may agree with certain labour policies, such as not allowing rich kids who are dumb to buy a law/medicine degree???

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Originally posted by Philby quick delete this thread before renegade sees it

Haha, damn...

Anyway, I don't want to get too deeply involved in this as I'm pretty disillusioned with Australian politics at the moment (neither candidate should be filling anyone with a great deal of hope about the future of the country) but I just genuinely don't understand how there are so many people here willing to vote for Howard. I'm not necessarily saying that Latham is any better, but at least think about and ask yourself whether your really going to be better off under another three years of Liberal government and then consider the alternatives. Don't just vote for Howard because you can't find a reason not to (you aren't looking hard enough!) or because you don't like the alternatives.

Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that most of the people are aged between 18 and 25 (or predominantly under 30 at least) so this is going to be aimed at all of you. Firstly, while it is true that the Howard government's macro-economic management has been very good (most key economic indicators are where they should be) don't automatically assume that this means you are going to see any direct benefit from it. While unemployment has come down under the Howard government (though it's starting to rise again), 42% of all new jobs created have been casual jobs (source). So while more people are employed these days, more people are also "underemployed" than ever before (75% of people in casual work want to work full-time but can't - source - and our "casualisation rate" is the second highest in the OECD). What this means for us young people is that there aren't as many good jobs out there as the unemployment figures might otherwise lead us to believe - when we walk out into the big, wide world with our university degrees, the likelihood of us having to settle for a McJob for a substantial period of time before entering full-time work is significantly higher than ever before (we're twice as likely as even the yanks - where the McJob was born - to be employed casually or part-time).

Oh and speaking of university degrees, are we really comfortable with accepting John Howard's 25% HECS increase? A nation is built on the quality of its education system and if John Howard makes it even more difficult for the average student to attain a university degree then the entire nation (not just us) suffers. Quite apart from discouraging young people from studying, the HECS increase is just going to add to the level of personal debt in a nation that's already crippled by it under the current government (source).

Oh and should we have the good fortune to obtain a university degree and stumble, against the odds, into a decent, full-time job, you can still forget about owning a home. House prices have risen by more than a third over the past three years, are at record levels relative to real household income, are predominantly being fueled by speculative buying (40% of all houses are being purchased to let) and are overvalued by 29% according to Goldman Sachs (source). Fucking great if you're a wealthy investment banker, but not so great if you're a young couple looking to buy a home. The problem - apart from making housing inaccessible to those who most need it - is that this isn't going to last. The Howard government should have done more to take the sting out the bubble while the opportunity was still there and now - when the property market does regulate itself back to more "normal" price equilibrium - a lot of people (rich and poor alike) are going to be stung by it.

Now I'm not an economist but as young people I think that these are the sorts of things we should be thinking about more so than the general macro-economic figures that are flying around at the moment. Put simply, I want you to look at the webpages of all the major parties (not just the ALP and the Libs) and ask "Are these guys really going to do what's best by me?" before you decide on who you vote for. I could be wrong here, but unless you're incredibly wealthy for your age, I can't see how the Liberals can possibly best represent your interests.

Oh and that's just economic policy. I haven't even touched on the Liberals' dispicable human rights record, their badly conceived foreign policies (Iraq? Marshmallows? Pre-Emptive strikes on any of the Asian countries that we've successfully alienated over the past 8 years? What the fuck?), their complete disdain for international law and treaties, their backwards approach to social issues (esp. abortion, gay rights etc.), their xenophobic immigration and refugee policies, their assault on civil liberties, their complete disinterest in environmental issues (until the election year of course ) or their misguided love for the most dangerously incompetent and corrupt US president in living memory..... but I guess that's another topic altogether, huh?

EDIT: - For what it's worth, I don't really care about the house of reps, but please vote for the Dems in the senate. Even you Liberal voters might want to consider it - if the Dems don't get the votes, then the Greens may hold the balance of power there and I'm sure that none of you would want that.... right?

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Originally posted by narcism Has it ever crossed your mind that they may agree with certain labour policies, such as not allowing rich kids who are dumb to buy a law/medicine degree???

FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go

Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.

Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance

*Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*

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Originally posted by matt_a FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham. Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance *Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*

hahaha i love it, and i'm not *that* drunk

Very nice post, Renegade.

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Originally posted by matt_a FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham. Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance *Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*

Whats wrong with the socialist alliance? I may not agree with all their opinions but certainly most of them that i have met are the smartest and well informed ppl i ever seen. Definately more cluey than the Libs.
I agree with most points Renagade made on politics but i still can't forgive Democrats when they cut the deal with Lib party to pass GST in the senate.

PS. Hey James looked everywhere for u at GK but could not see

Renegade, i'm intrigued by your opinions and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

great to see some researched interest in the future of this here "lucky country".

really when it comes down to it your only one vote and you can't make a difference

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Originally posted by Tranceilvania Whats wrong with the socialist alliance? I may not agree with all their opinions but certainly most of them that i have met are the smartest and well informed ppl i ever seen. Definately more cluey than the Libs. I agree with most points Renagade made on politics but i still can't forgive Democrats when they cut the deal with Lib party to pass GST in the senate. PS. Hey James looked everywhere for u at GK but could not see

James looked everywhere for me??

quote:

Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.

Well it is true that many young people are ignorant. That does not mean that those voting for Latham are ignorant. There are ignorant people voting for all sides of politics.

It is, however, in the self interest of the vast majority of young people to vote for Labor or the Greens. Young people are almost all low income earners, students or unemployed. If you are in any of those groups there is no reason for you to be voting for Howard. The only young people who should really be voting for Liberal are the really rich and those who are ideologically right wing. I would say that group makes up about 5-10% of young people. Anyone else voting for Howard is probably doing so through ignorance (often because thats who their parentes vote/voted for).

The liberals plan to add 25% more to university fees. For anyone that goes to university that is going to put you thousands of dollars out of pocket. Full fee paying places took away university spots for the rest of us and made it harder for those who cant afford to pay full fees to get into the course they want to get in to, while allowing some to jump the queue. The GST hurt us. Tax cuts didnt help us. Low interest rates dont help us, in fact they have contributed to the property boom which means if you live in Sydney and Melbourne, your rent has gone up and you can forget about buying a house in the next 10 yrs, esp in a nice area.

Howard knows that young people dont really matter when it comes to voting, because they make up a small percentage of the voting population but also because most young people dont really care about politics and thats why he does nothing for us.

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Originally posted by Tranceilvania PS. Hey James looked everywhere for u at GK but could not see

Yeah Duncan said you were looking for me, but I didn't see you anywhere. Where were you for most of the night?

The ignorance in here can be scary sometimes

Basically, read what Renegade and Romp said.

I can't understand how people can vote for him, or even believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He craps on about "fiscal responsibility" and "steady government", while simultaneously reaching into his pocket and passing out billions (!) in election year bribes.

Do some basic research, ie not just what you heard on Channel Seven or read in the Daily Telegraph, and you'll be startled to realise that Howard has promised far more in pork-barrel promises to marginal seats than Labor has.

I'm not going to get involved in debate because debating politics is extremely pointless and frustrating. Primarily because other peoples opinions are wrong.

All I've got to contribute is John Howard getting a pickled onion up the date.

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