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couldn't have had my point of view represented any better, Scottaculous. I know all too well the problems buy-a-belt schools plague the martial arts world with, there are far too many of them.

I see nothing wrong with placing minimum periods of time in which a trainee can obtain a belt of ranking (to ensure they have had enough time to learn the necessary skills), but the line should be drawn there, giving someone a belt regardless of skill because they have been taking classes for a certain period of time is ridiculous.

Too many people see belts as a sign of superiority, as the crux of what their martial art is, and it couldn't be farther from the truth. What goes with a belt is simply a notification of the effort and interest spent in obtaining that level and that a certain level of respect goes with said level. That being said, everyone deserves a certain amount of respect and too often i see people waving their hips around beleiving they are superior to everyone belonging to lower belts. Every once in awhile these people need to be humbled and taught a small lesson in humility.

I have a story about this, choose whether to read or not:

Not too long ago we had a new member join our dojo, he had moved to Ottawa from Montr�al where another JKA affiliated dojo was located. He's a 1st degree black and even during simple exercices and light sparring you could tell his technique and control were poor. However he spoke down and treated poorly people of lower belts and practiced with a cocky air about him. Eagerness is one thing, but arrogance is completely unwarranted. So anyways, one particular session involved focussing on freestyle sparring and he was paired with myself (an orange belt, several rankings below 1st degree black). He immidiately discredited me as being inferior and gave little to no respect my way, not even bowing properly. As the sparring began he started to "play" with me as he would believe, using up his own breath and energy in effort to make himself look professional and feign/trick me out (large noobie mistake). As there was the enevitable exchange of blows he showed absolutely no control, putting full force into me with each punch (i understand that people need to take punches in martial arts, and i can, i have no problem being knocked about and am experienced with it, however the point here is to learn control, to put out a full power/full speed hit and simply tap your oppenents gi, recoiling the strike as soon as light contact is made). Anyways as the sparring progressed for a bit longer (inside a minute, he was looking rather spunk and arrogant, and as he went for a head level side thrust kick, my judo years revisited me and i promptly dodged the blow, swept out his supporting leg, and as he came down with the kicking leg to support himself, i used a hip throw and brought him quickly to the ground. After this he was surprised and dazed, and after eventually getting up, proceeded to whine and complain about the use of my throw in shotokan kumite (throws are completely legal). After being waved off by our sensei and myself given the 1/2 point, the sparring continued. Within the next two minutes he scored a 1/2 point and then myself another shortly after finishing the bout. Much to his shock and dismay a much younger (and supposedly inferior) orange belt had defeated a seemingly invincible 1st degree black. After the dojo etiquette had finished and i was aiding in sweeping the floor, he approached me and we talked for a few minutes about what had happened, me explaining that i had some experience in judo where i had refined many throwing and grappling techniques. Now he appears to treat many people in the dojo with the respect and admiration they deserve and although this may not seem to be such a big deal to many of you, i'd like to thing i made a difference by humbling someone who could have potentially injured others while carrying around false bravado and arrogance.

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Originally posted by d0uble h3lix couldn't have had my point of view represented any better, Scottaculous. I know all too well the buy-a-belt dojos, they need to go.

Thanks, I really liked your points too.


A nice site for information about martial arts.
http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/a...-faq/index.html

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Originally posted by Scottaculous Lastly, a small number of schools practice classical martial arts. The techniques learned are the same ones used by the Japanese and Chinese in ancient times for personal and battlefield combat. These arts are designed to end fights as soon as possible. Finding such schools are hard to find because the Cultral Revolution of China wiped out nearly all of classic chinese martial arts and the occupying forces and new Japanese government after WWII did the same. It takes a great deal of time to be proficient at effective combat compared the standard techniques taught in special forces fighting systems. I also have no doubt "non-combatants" can be taught to fight effectively under these classical styles. If the school is worth a damn, it would also teach as much philosophy as fighting.

You wouldn't happen to know of any good ones around Atlanta then, would you? (preferrably around gwinnett/85 ish area, but anywhere is cool).

a few are listed in the URL he just posted, good place to start looking..

The only way you'll get into a fight is by not thinking. I've never been in a fight because when presented with the many opportunities to do so, i've always thought too much. My theory is that if you actually think about what you're doing you will never get into a fight. In other words, fighting is stupidity caused by stupidity.

Actually I shouldn't say my theory, since many people have said the same thing before me.

Studied a Tae Kwon Do based martial art for 8 years and have an official WTF TKD blackbelt. Stopped a bit before I moved to Montreal and debating taking up something similar again, most likely a kung fu.

(haven't read anything in this thread btw so forgive me if I've touched on topics that have already been discussed).

World Tae Kwon Do Federation style Tae Kwon Do is more geared towards Sport than it is to actual effective fighting style; with flashy kicks and other generally ineffective manoeuvers if you're in a bar fight. Fortunately my master had a diverse martial arts background, starting off as a greco-roman wrestler, moving into karate for 7 years, and then taking up TKD full time thereafter and loving it. He was able to effectively blend the dynamism of taekwondo with the effectiveness of other martial arts, while stressing that TKD competitions were something completely different than a real life street fight. Fortunately, I haven't been in a street fight since starting (even though, like many others, that was the purpose I started =P).

After he spent 4 months at a shaolin temple he brought back so many awesome moves that I think, were I to take up another martial art, it would definitely be a form of kungfu.

Will add more to this conversation later; too goddamn tired atm.

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Originally posted by Orbax Not to come off as an asshole, but every time Ive been to martial arts classes (a lot) its filled with a coterie of girls (who just cant fight, im sorry to shatter illusions) old people, fat people, skinny people, nerds, and just generally people who nature has decreed non-combatants.

Youre pretty right about that, but i did see some girls who could seriously woop some ass ( one of them with a spear, damn she was fast and furious ). But alot of those people are there indeed. In thaiboxing i never really saw much of em, old people then. ( i did see alot of nersds ). But in wushu alot more. But because of the nature of the training and the toughness my sifu requires, these people drop out VERY fast. From all the new groups, after 3 months they are already at 50% of the original amount, after a year, only 10% or something still goes on.

About that fighter thing, i think you are right. Maybe its arrogance, but i think myself as a fighter. I always loved the thrill of combat, but also the neccesity ( sp? ) of it most of the time. I almost joined up with the BBE, thats the dutch anti hostage/terrorist team, but my left eye isnt as sharp as my right. In normal sight, i have no problems. But when i close my right eye. My left eye sees very blurry. Anyway, those guys had upgraded their standards. And physically i was in, mentally, i was in. But my eyesight was the problem. Couldn't enter because of that. Bastards.

anyway, i really think your nature, genes etc and your love for martial arts are connected.

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Originally posted by nrjizer You wouldn't happen to know of any good ones around Atlanta then, would you? (preferrably around gwinnett/85 ish area, but anywhere is cool).

I am currently studying budo at a Marietta dojo. The techniques I practice are under, but not limited to, the Bujinkan budo taijutsu (ninjutsu) system under our grandmaster Hatsumi Sensei. Here is the website: www.kobudoatlanta.com I can tell you more about it, if you like.

A bit of advice. In the past I have studied isshin-ryu karate, tkd and more bujinkan budo taijutsu in NY. I have come to the realization that not all schools, even under the same system, are the same. It was surprising concept in an organization as rigid as ninjutsu. If you or anyone is serious about training I would put a lot of effort in picking the right teacher.

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Originally posted by 6iki_Snake I almost joined up with the BBE, thats the dutch anti hostage/terrorist team, but my left eye isnt as sharp as my right. In normal sight, i have no problems. But when i close my right eye. My left eye sees very blurry. Anyway, those guys had upgraded their standards. And physically i was in, mentally, i was in. But my eyesight was the problem. Couldn't enter because of that. Bastards. anyway, i really think your nature, genes etc and your love for martial arts are connected.

im assuming you were in the military or a paramilitary force in order to qualify for testing to get into the BBE or Royal Dutch Marines? if you were asked to make an attempt at joining either of these elite units at your age (by your profile you're 19) then that is very impressive, at the same time very hard to believe.


personally i think its a 50/50 split of nature/nurture for what makes a good fighter or martial artist, while you are born with some built-in ideals and desires, many of them are determined by your experience with life, and you can change or make allowances for many disadvantages you were born with (physically, mentally, etc). just my two cents..

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Originally posted by Scottaculous If you or anyone is serious about training I would put a lot of effort in picking the right teacher.

this couldn't be closer to the truth, just as in academics, a good teacher can truly make what you study shine and in turn, allow for you to learn and develop skills more efficiently. whatever martial art or school you go to, the teaching you recieve is the most important aspect of your future training (other than your attitude and effort, that is) That being said, it's a very wise move to consider who is teaching rather than who is attending certain clubs.

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Originally posted by d0uble h3lix personally i think its a 50/50 split of nature/nurture for what makes a good fighter or martial artist, while you are born with some built-in ideals and desires, many of them are determined by your experience with life, and you can change or make allowances for many disadvantages you were born with (physically, mentally, etc). just my two cents..

Very possibly so... but this is, once again, assuming that the measure of a 'good' Martial Artist is his ability to fight somebody. Which, I believe, is not necessarily true - it sometimes takes a lot more skill to not fight somebody

But damn is it cool to be able to do this:

Yeah, I dont think anything anyones said has really been an argument against what I said. its my Grand Unifying Theory of life. The 95% rule. 95% of people suck, 95% of cars you wouldnt buy, girls you wouldnt date, guys you wouldnt be friends with, etc...

95% dont know how to fight, 95% of schools dont teach you well, etc.

Martial arts as a whole, taken as it is today, doesnt really teach you a whole lot. I mean, i learned some new ways to break a dudes arm, but the difference between me and the other kids in the class is that Ive snapped a dudes shoulder out his socket then used his arm to fling him head first into a door.

There are just certain vicious people out there who somehow know how to fuck you up. One of my goals in life is still to get in a fight with a couple of guys and latch on onto a guy like an alien face sucker and bite his nose off and scream at the same time.

Should scare the other guy pretty good.

As for the girls thing, im not really gonna take the idea that a girl could kick my ass seriously. Trust me, ive fought girls before their bodies are physically incapable of developing the power ratio that men get. The level of mastery a girl would have to have would be ridiculous. Ive had girls punch, kick, and twist me as hard as they could, and i was just embarassed that I was jerk enough to humiliate them like that.

Women serve a different function in life, it isnt protecting men or themselves. Guys do that. Or should.

Anywho. A lot of people who are blackbelts typically have mastery of several other styles as well. The transition from style to style is fairly smooth for a fighter.

Like, I said, I didnt really see anything that disagreed with what I was saying. MAny schools are sub par businesses, many people dont have the mentality to fight. They are defenders.

and when you have a person who is defending, and not fighting back because they got attacked, they are going to lose. It comes down to that contest of wills thing.

/

kenjutsu training at my dojo

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Originally posted by d0uble h3lix im assuming you were in the military or a paramilitary force in order to qualify for testing to get into the BBE or Royal Dutch Marines? if you were asked to make an attempt at joining either of these elite units at your age (by your profile you're 19) then that is very impressive, at the same time very hard to believe.

no official test, a good buddy of mine is in em, they had a training ops for a week in my neighbourhood. He asked me to join in on some of the things ( no tactical stuff, just other physicall exercises ) and the unit commandor thought i had some talent for it, so he asked if i was interested in coming in, its very true that you first have to have an experience grade in the 'korps mariniers' ( from wich BBE is a part off ). So i could join up for them. That is the commando squad from the navy. These guys have alot of different teams and units ( as you are probly well awere off ) but since my good bud is in BBE and i talked to the unit leader about it, i could've made it in the BBE after i took my time in the korps mariniers. But you are right that you need field experience to enter ( BBE is i think 4 years in korps mariniers, after that you can qualify ). I was thinking about joining up with korps mariniers with a futureimage of the BBE team. sorry for that

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Originally posted by 6iki_Snake no official test, a good buddy of mine is in em, they had a training ops for a week in my neighbourhood. He asked me to join in on some of the things ( no tactical stuff, just other physicall exercises ) and the unit commandor thought i had some talent for it, so he asked if i was interested in coming in, its very true that you first have to have an experience grade in the 'korps mariniers' ( from wich BBE is a part off ). So i could join up for them. That is the commando squad from the navy. These guys have alot of different teams and units ( as you are probly well awere off ) but since my good bud is in BBE and i talked to the unit leader about it, i could've made it in the BBE after i took my time in the korps mariniers. But you are right that you need field experience to enter ( BBE is i think 4 years in korps mariniers, after that you can qualify ). I was thinking about joining up with korps mariniers with a futureimage of the BBE team. sorry for that

ahhh i completely understand now, thats pretty cool man, yea ive looked into dutch military and special forces stuff quite a bit as my family's dutch (father immigrated from leiden, rest of family's from den hague, lisse and rotterdam) and my grandfather was in the Royal Dutch Marines for the course of ww2.

1st degree black belt in TKD - bump!!!

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