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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ves_pentagon_dc

Check that out.

quote:

The first U.S. military unit to reach the site in Iraq where U.N. officials say 377 tons of high explosives are missing did not carry out a hunt for such material, the unit's commander said on Wednesday. Col. Dave Perkins, then the commander of the 2nd Brigade of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, said the immediate concern when his troops reached the Al Qaqaa site on April 3, 2003, was to defeat a couple of hundred Iraqi troops who were firing from the compound as the Americans surged toward Baghdad [...] Perkins also said it was "very highly improbable" that enemy forces could have trucked out such a huge amount of explosives in the weeks after U.S. forces first arrived there, considering the high level of U.S. military presence and how clogged the roads around the site were with U.S. convoys.

When you couple that with the previous article I posted it makes a pretty damning case. Even if the explosives were moved by Saddam, the fact that no attempt was made to secure them is just an example of the incompetance that went into planning this war.

quote:

Originally posted by tecnolover Is that per capita? can you give a source please? thanx.

http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview...ml/00046149.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd
http://www.obv.org.uk/europe/eu20030702a.htm

That's what I got from a quick google search. If you want to make sure, get UN's statistical catalogue and reference book at
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/pubs/gesgrid.asp?id=261

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2167933.stm

No inspectors present in Iraq until September of 2002.

Well lookey lookey ... what do we have here?

quote:

A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew in Iraq shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein was in the area where tons of explosives disappeared, and may have videotaped some of those weapons. The missing explosives are now an issue in the presidential debate. Democratic candidate John Kerry is accusing President Bush of not securing the site they allegedly disappeared from. President Bush says no one knows if the ammunition was taken before or after the fall of Baghdad on April 9, 2003 when coalition troops moved in to the area. Using GPS technology and talking with members of the 101st Airborne Division, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has determined the crew embedded with the troops may have been on the southern edge of the Al Qaqaa installation, where the ammunition disappeared. The news crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa, and drove two or three miles north of there with soldiers on April 18, 2003. During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS news crew bunker after bunker of material labelled "explosives." Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get into the bunkers and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords. "We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew. Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses. There were what appeared to be fuses for bombs. They also found bags of material men from the 101st couldn't identify, but box after box was clearly marked "explosive." In one bunker, there were boxes marked with the name "Al Qaqaa", the munitions plant where tons of explosives allegedly went missing. Once the doors to the bunkers were opened, they weren't secured. They were left open when the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew and the military went back to their base. "We weren't quite sure what were looking at, but we saw so much of it and it didn't appear that this was being secured in any way," said photojournalist Joe Caffrey. "It was several miles away from where military people were staying in their tents". Officers with the 101st Airborne told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the bunkers were within the U.S. military perimeter and protected. But Caffrey and former 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Dean Staley, who spent three months together in Iraq, said Iraqis were coming and going freely. "At one point there was a group of Iraqis driving around in a pick-up truck,"Staley said. "Three or four guys we kept an eye on, worried they might come near us." On Wednesday, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS e-mailed still images of the footage taken at the site to experts in Washington to see if the items captured on tape are the same kind of high explosives that went missing in Al Qaqaa. Those experts could not make that determination. The footage is now in the hands of security experts to see if it is indeed the explosives in question. http://www.kstptv5.com/article/stor...23.html?cat=64&

I love it when I hit jackpot.

quote:

Originally posted by surferfb http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ves_pentagon_dc Check that out. When you couple that with the previous article I posted it makes a pretty damning case. Even if the explosives were moved by Saddam, the fact that no attempt was made to secure them is just an example of the incompetance that went into planning this war.

3rd ID was on their way to Bahgdad. they were followed up by the 101st days later. we turned those two highways that lead in and out on Lykityra (whatever) into a military conga line for weeks after that. you want to blame someone blame the Turks for re-nigging at the last minute and not letting the 4th ID to sweep in from the north and taking some pressure off of the 3rd ID who had to bring it all from the south by themselves.

lets face it that shit was being systematically removed by a coordinated effort from Saddams military and possibly the Russians for months prior the invasion.

i read something on msnbc.com late last night that said a Russian newspaper said Russia removed the ammo from Iraq before the war. It was not suggestive but very definitive that they did. It was a very vague article but it was on the front page. The article is no longer there which means 1 of 2 possibilities:

1) it was a bunk news source
2) theyre still verifying it

just for all your info....

quote:

Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad. "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units." Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration. Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said. The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said. The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said. Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment. The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency. Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material. Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said. "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there." The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday. A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA. The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6. "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said. The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime. According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken. It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003. A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria. The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said. A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said. However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said. The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country. Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots. The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said. Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq. The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said. Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said. "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said. Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said. The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said. Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003. The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said. Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing. The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive. Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.

Heres more info for the post above

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec Heres more info for the post above

Interesting story, except it reminds me of the Niger yellowcake uranium story. Does anyone else spot the logical flaw in that official's statement?

quote:

Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said. "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."

So it's impossible for it to disappear ... therefore if it did disappear it must have happened before we got there? Huh? How the hell does he exclude it happening while we were there, when there were plenty of first hand accounts of it not being monitored closely? Furthermore, he bases his entire analysis off of, "two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration." Riiigghttt ... well name the intelligence agencies and let's see the evidence.

As a matter of fact, I have a better idea ... the official said the site was monitored closely because it was such an important weapons site right? Well here were the photos presented by powell at the UN:




The first photo:

POWELL: At this ballistic missile site, on November 10, we saw a cargo truck preparing to move ballistic missile components. At this biological weapons related facility, on November 25, just two days before inspections resumed, this truck caravan appeared, something we almost never see at this facility, and we monitor it carefully and regularly.

The second photo:

POWELL: At this ballistic missile facility, again, two days before inspections began, five large cargo trucks appeared along with the truck-mounted crane to move missiles. We saw this kind of house cleaning at close to 30 sites.

So naturally I'm sure the Pentagon was monitoring one of the largest weapons site in Iraq before the war right? So let's see the satellite photos of the Russian truck convoys that moved the weapons.

Here is a satellite photo of Al Qaqaa:



If you look at the southeast portion of the photo we can see that those are storage sites ... hmmmm and the journalist crew said they were at the southern edge of Al Qaqaa and they have video proof of explosives present at the time the US troops were present??? I'm sorry but the washington times is going to have to do better than that.

Tee hee, I'm just lovin' this exposure right now. You think Rove ever saw this comin'?

Surprise Carl!

The conservatives are in the most incredible spin mode I have ever seen! You really need to be careful when you start drumming up excuses - I mean first we had Guliani come out and put the blame solely on the troops. And now we have both Bill Kristol from the Weekly Standard and Conservative talk show host Laura Ingram shifting all blame on the troops as well:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410280003

It's really, REALLY difficult to escape the truth:

quote:

The Second Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division arrived outside the site on April 10, under the command of Col. Joseph Anderson. The brigade had been ordered to move quickly to Baghdad because of civil disorder there after Mr. Hussein's government fell on April 9. They gathered at Al Qaqaa, about 30 miles south, simply as a matter of convenience, Colonel Anderson said in an interview this week. He said that when he arrived at the site - unaware of its significance - he saw no signs of looting, but was not paying close attention. Because he thought the brigade would be moving on to Baghdad within hours, Al Qaqaa was of no importance to his mission, he said, and he was unaware of the explosives that international inspectors said were hidden inside. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/politics/27bomb.html

Oh, say Occ, did you see Clarke handing Guiliani and Bush their collective ASSES in his response?:

quote:

"For President Bush to send Rudolph Giuliani out on television to say that the 'actual responsibility' for the failure to secure explosives lies with the troops is insulting and cowardly.' "The President approved the mission and the priorities. Civilian leaders tell military leaders what to do. The military follows those orders and gets the job done. This was a failure of civilian leadership, first in not telling the troops to secure explosives and other dangerous materials, and second for not providing sufficient troops and sufficient equipment for troops to do the job." "President Bush sent our troops to war without sufficient body armor, without a sound plan and without sufficient forces to accomplish the mission. Our troops are performing a difficult mission with skill, bravery and determination. They deserve a commander in chief who supports them and understands that the buck stops in the Oval Office, not one who gets weak knees and shifts blame for his mistakes."

This just turned into a pretty damn good week after all.



P.S. Why does the conservatives hate our troops?

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Tee hee, I'm just lovin' this exposure right now. You think Rove ever saw this comin'? Surprise Carl! The conservatives are in the most incredible spin mode I have ever seen! You really need to be careful when you start drumming up excuses - I mean first we had Guliani come out and put the blame solely on the troops. And now we have both Bill Kristol from the Weekly Standard and Conservative talk show host Laura Ingram shifting all blame on the troops as well: http://mediamatters.org/items/200410280003 It's really, REALLY difficult to escape the truth: Oh, say Occ, did you see Clarke handing Guiliani and Bush their collective ASSES in his response?: This just turned into a pretty damn good week after all. P.S. Why does the conservatives hate our troops?

There is simply no system of accountability in the Bush administration. Name one person who has gotten fired for any of these fuckups??? No I take that back, the only time accountability factors into anything is if you disagree with the administration. Then you are properly shown the door. I personally know of 3 people working in government. One in dept of homeland security, one in ofheo , and the other in the NSA. They ALL tell me the culture is so goddamned lazy and the solution to every problem is to hire more people or consultants. My what an efficient government .

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Name one person who has gotten fired for any of these fuckups???.

Tenet stepped down. Ya happy now?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Tenet stepped down. Ya happy now?

He stepped down and resigned on his own volition after pressure from the 9/11 commission started ratcheting up. Plus he was praised by Bush and went with Bush's blessings ... compare that with Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and Larry Lindsey who were asked to resign. So no I'm not happy

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...plosives_abc_dc

quote:

Report: Video Shows Explosives Went Missing After War Top Stories - Reuters WASHINGTON (Reuters) - ABC News on Thursday showed video that appeared to confirm that explosives that went missing in Iraq (news - web sites) did not disappear until after the United States had taken control of the facility where they were stored. -more

ACTUAL SATELLITE PHOTOS FROM THE PENTAGON
RELEASED TODAY




The picture shows two trucks parked outside one of the 56 bunkers of the Al Qa Qaa Explosive Storage Complex approximately 20 miles south of Baghdad, Iraq, on March 17, 2003. It is not believed that all 56 bunkers contained High Melting Explosive also known as HMX. A large, tractor-trailer (yellow arrow) is loaded with white containers with a smaller truck parked behind it. The International Atomic Energy Association inspectors identified bunkers in this complex as containing High Melting Explosive. We believe members of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission visited the Al Qa Qaa complex on March 15, 2003, and withdrew its staff two days later on March 17. The Al Qa Qaa Explosive Storage Complex was occupied by Iraqi forces, who fired on U.S. forces when they entered on April 3, 2003. DoD photo.




Word is Syria was the reciever of these weapons with these trucks. Ive heard also that maybe even Russia helped move these weapons into Syria before the war. Ill post links in a few. Dinner time

The photo, if authentic, doesn't prove anything.

Trucks could have been unloading or loading something. What were they unloading and how much? What were they loading and how much?

The new video by a reporters embedded with troops showing boxes and possibly weapons is much more revealing and credible.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange The photo, if authentic, doesn't prove anything. Trucks could have been unloading or loading something. What were they unloading and how much? What were they loading and how much? The new video by a reporters embedded with troops showing boxes and possibly weapons is much more revealing and credible.

it's called selective reasoning. you think photographs from one of the many, many bunkers represents the entire 370 tons (if there was that much, which you are way out on a limb assuming in the first place) i just listened to David Kay, just now on News Night with Aaron Brown, look at those same photographs and say "yes, looks like HDX, but that was just one bunker and what i just saw was maybe 1 ton." (paraphrasing)

now your doubting a Hi-Res D.O.D. satellite image.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo it's called selective reasoning. you think photographs from one of the many, many bunkers represents the entire 370 tons (if there was that much, which you are way out on a limb assuming in the first place) i just listened to David Kay, just now on News Night with Aaron Brown, look at those same photographs and say "yes, looks like HDX, but that was just one bunker and what i just saw was maybe 1 ton." (paraphrasing) now your doubting a Hi-Res D.O.D. satellite image.

i wrote "if authentic". assuming that they are autentic, they still don't prove anything, as i suggested.

Game, Set, Match.

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1

The photos on there are pretty undeniable. Then you have what David Kay (who is known for is extreme leftist views ) has to say about it.

quote:

Aaron Brown: We saw at the top of the program there is new information to factor in. Pretty conclusive to our eye. So we'll sort through this now. Take the politics out of it and try and deal with facts with former head UN weapons inspector, US weapons inspector, David Kay. David, it�s nice to see you. David Kay: Good to be with you, Aaron. AB: I don't know how better to do this than to show you some pictures have you explain to me what they are or are not. Okay? First what I�ll just call the seal. And tell me if this is an IAEA seal on that bunker at that munitions dump? DK: Aaron, about as certain as I can be looking at a picture, not physically holding it which, obviously, I would have preferred to have been there, that is an IAEA seal. I've never seen anything else in Iraq in about 15 years of being in Iraq and around Iraq that was other than an IAEA seal of that shape. AB: Was there anything else at the facility that would have been under IAEA seal? DK: Absolutely nothing. It was the HMX, RDX, the two high explosives. AB: OK now, I�ll take a look at barrels here for a second. You can tell me what they tell you. They, obviously, to us just show us a bunch of barrels. You'll see it somewhat differently. DK: Well, it's interesting. There were three foreign suppliers to Iraq of this explosive in the 1980s. One of them used barrels like this, and inside the barrels a bag. HMX is in powder form because you actually use it to shape a spherical lens that is used to create the triggering device for nuclear weapons. And particularly on the videotape, which is actually better than the still photos, as the soldier dips into it, that's either HMX or RDX. I don't know of anything else in al Qaqaa that was in that form. AB: Let me ask you then, David, the question I asked Jamie. In regard to the dispute about whether that stuff was there when the Americans arrived, is it game, set, match? Is that part of the argument now over? DK: Well, at least with regard to this one bunker, and the film shows one seal, one bunker, one group of soldiers going through, and there were others there that were sealed. With this one, I think it is game, set, and match. There was HMX, RDX in there. The seal was broken. And quite frankly, to me the most frightening thing is not only was the seal broken, lock broken, but the soldiers left after opening it up. I mean, to rephrase the so-called pottery barn rule. If you open an arms bunker, you own it. You have to provide security. AB: I'm -- that raises a number of questions. Let me throw out one. It suggests that maybe they just didn't know what they had? DK: I think you're quite likely they didn't know they had HMX, which speaks to lack of intelligence given troops moving through that area, but they certainly knew they had explosives. And to put this in context, I think it's important, this loss of 360 tons, but Iraq is awash with tens of thousands of tons of explosives right now in the hands of insurgents because we did not provide the security when we took over the country. AB: Could you -- I�m trying to stay out of the realm of politics. I'm not sure you can. DK: So am I. AB: I know. It's a little tricky here. But, is there any -- is there any reason not to have anticipated the fact that there would be bunkers like this, explosives like this, and a need to secure them? DK: Absolutely not. For example, al Qaqaa was a site of Gerald Bull's super gun project. It was a team of mine that discovered the HMX originally in 1991. That was one of the most well-documented explosive sites in all of Iraq. The other 80 or so major ammunition storage points were also well documented. Iraq had, and it's a frightening number, two-thirds of the total conventional explosives that the US has in its entire inventory. The country was an armed camp. AB: David, as quickly as you can, because this just came up in the last hour, as dangerous as this stuff is, this would not be described as a WMD, correct? DK: Oh absolutely not. AB: Thank you. DK: And, in fact, the loss of it is not a proliferation issue. AB: Okay. It's just dangerous and its out there and by your thinking it should have been secured. DK: Well look, it was used to bring the Pan Am flight down. It's a very dangerous explosive, particularly in the hands of terrorists. AB: David, thank you for walking me through this. I appreciate it, David Kay the former head US weapons inspector in Iraq.

The emphasis is mine. It was funny watching the Republicans on Larry King just pretend like the pictures don't exist and still claim that all the explosives were moved before US troops got there.

source cnn:

quote:

It was unclear, however, if the explosives in the video were of the same types as in the missing cache.

Until you prove those were the same type of explosives then all you really can do is just stand by one theory while we stand by ours which is an actual Pentagon Satellite Photo.

Let's see: trucks and heavy equipment massing around a specific site known to contain the exotic explosives.

Or a video from hometown news showing some sorta things that may go boom. Our deals with Russia would never be blown into the public especially with the election on tuesday.My2cents .


full cnn article

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/28/iraq.explosives/

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec ACTUAL SATELLITE PHOTOS FROM THE PENTAGON RELEASED TODAY

hey! that's the picture that colin powell showed us! they had wmds, and armeggedon tools in them. you can't recycle those pics and stick different dates on them. who would believe such garbage? oh, sorry speedracer

quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag hey! that's the picture that colin powell showed us! they had wmds, and armeggedon tools in them. you can't recycle those pics and stick different dates on them. who would believe such garbage? oh, sorry speedracer

Hey hey even the DNC and other critics have seen this photo today and have not tied it to previous photos shown.

Regardless if they were there or not after the US invasion, its bad news for the adminstration. There is no way to put a positive spin on this.

If they were not there before the invasion, then its possible that the invasion was a catalyst to their dispersal. To where? In whose hands are they?

If they were there after the invasion, then its a failure of leadership by the civilian leaders. Where did they go? In whose hands are they?

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange Regardless if they were there or not after the US invasion, its bad news for the adminstration. There is no way to put a positive spin on this. If they were not there before the invasion, then its possible that the invasion was a catalyst to their dispersal. To where? In whose hands are they? If they were there after the invasion, then its a failure of leadership by the civilian leaders. Where did they go? In whose hands are they?

As for the video:
Eyewitness news just dumped all of this on the shoulders of the American soldiers and not on the President, which is exactly what Kerry is trying not to do. The next question is why do none of these photos have any IEAE markings or seals, which they say they clearly marked on the explosives in question. The soldiers have already said that weapons were there but not the ones the IEAE is claiming that went missing.

quote:

Meanwhile, an ABC affiliate in Minneapolis that had a crew embedded with the 101st Airborne Division during the war released a video that it said showed soldiers examining explosives at part of the Al-Qaqaa facility on April 18, 2003. But the television station said it remained unclear if the explosives were the high-energy explosives that are missing. Previously, the unit's spokesman has said it did not find any of the high-energy explosives, but some less-dangerous explosives.

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec Hey hey even the DNC and other critics have seen this photo today and have not tied it to previous photos shown.

sorry you missed the humor. there's a lot of unanswered allegations right now and the best the pentagon could do was release a picture and say, "yeah, we guarded their oil, and forgot to guard this place. but look, trucks! four of them"

i read into this thread late, and you were losing the arguement on page 3. by page 5 you had a bunker of your own.

i'm kind of disappointed with the bush team, i figured by now they'd be able to come up with something to renew our confidence before the election. are the democrats finally taking lessons from the gop and keeping them on the defensive?

quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag . i'm kind of disappointed with the bush team, i figured by now they'd be able to come up with something to renew our confidence before the election. are the democrats finally taking lessons from the gop and keeping them on the defensive?

Losing the argument because alot of assumptions were flooding out the gates of the media. As far as the GOP being on the defensive...remember this election is not for voting Kerry into office, its for voting Bush out. A vote for Anti-BUSH!!! YAY! oops i mean a vote for kerry! Kerry is running on events

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