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-- the Pentagon & 9/11 - a conspiracy theory!
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Epicurus....
Basically, to sum up what you wrote:
1-when something is not clear, it is better to go with what seems to be clearer...
Well, no, i dont believe in that - too many times in the past people have been "forced" to believe something and when people do that, it just limits their intellectuality. If no one can believe that there are other possibilities, then the world cannot evolve dont you think? i mean isnt it by doubting something that you somehow discover the truth?
How many times have people decided to believe something and later on, after X years, found out that this was false?
2-i do know that there are not enough evidence out there to show that the US had anything to do with the attacks - but this just doesnt mean that there isnt any evidence - they could just be hidden or destroyed or wotever.....
3-You see, you cant really compare the unicorns' existence to 9/11 mystery. The unicorns may exist in some part of the world which has not been discovered yet - no one has reached that area. Whereas 9/11 attacks, the evidence is there, held by people....and it's just hidden and will not come out right now....
To get the 9/11 evidence, we'd have to talk to the people behind it, and to find out whether unicorns exist, we'd have to ask God (as silly as this may sound - but he's the only one that knows, right?)
one is reachable, the other isnt.....so u cant really compare those two......
4-The idea behind Pearl Harbour attack - i am not sayin that: Oh, well, it happened once, so it must have happened on 9/11 also. but i am just sayin that: "celui qui vole un oeuf, vole un boeuf" - meaning: if you do somethin bad once, you're very likely to do it again - and even worse....And i dont want to go through all that "Pearl Harbor was not a surpise" thing, i did it once in high-school and am not doin it again.....i think it has been shown enough times already....and the point is: people believe it was a surprise attack because they were "forced" to believe so.......yet, it turned out to be "somethin planned and known in advance".
Anyway, this is an opinion vs opinion discussion....you could be wrong just like i could be wrong.....
i like u deejiuana
ure true about the opinion against opinion
but i strongly believe it shouldnt be about that
just because this crazy guy is president, all hes saying should be considered as true??????????
damn
were going nowhere with such attitude
and their policies wil go on & on
i just cant imagine what kind of project they have now for USA but it surely is bad in any way
u see, i dont have a problem with the attitude of not accepting anything coming from such people
they are wrong, they kill people, they want their profit
they should be banned of earth
(i wish fast could ban those (*&/(&*?/?%/$&?%$/&?%/ out of here as fast as he can with some of my friends)
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| Originally posted by Epicurus Deejiuana, I'm not saying it's not possible. There is no absolute certainty when it comes to knowledge and truth. However, there is a best approximation of what is true and what is not, and that is based on good sound empirical evidence. |
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| (i wish fast could ban those (*&/(&*?/?%/$&?%$/&?%/ out of here as fast as he can with some of my friends) |
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| Originally posted by Deejiuana Anyway, this is an opinion vs opinion discussion....you could be wrong just like i could be wrong..... |
yup i really agree with deejiuana and discojoe
Well i've seen a documentary stating that FBI/CIA had in hands documents confirming a terrorist attack being organised and that was suppose to have has target an economical base of the country (for 9/11),recently again in the news this time,not a documentary, ridge set the level of security at orange for practically the same threat of terrorist attack against economic poles of the u.s.a. That leaves me perplex because there's no doubt in my mind that they have a lot of people working for them internationally (*coughing* spies *coughing*)and for them not to have taken caution to any information leading to believe there's a credible threat to the security of the country is mind buggling when we know the existence of such "easy to make" but efficient weaponry as "dirty bombs" and biochemical weaponry (well biochemicals arent mediocre at all). Its true,i do not have any proof of it,then again,who will. Having access to such documents requires...being very close to the action.
Another disturbing statement is that well we all know saudis were very much implicated in the terrorist attack,but at the time,no actions were taken against the saudis even after Bush publicly proclamed war on terrorism and all countries that sponsors it.And in reports,all parts concerning saudis has been erased/hidden.
But i agree with epicurus you that perhaps the information has been mishandled/has not been taken seriously by CIA/NSA before the attack, but in such cases,i think NSA should have been more careful since this is the national security agency, and well they have to do anything possible to ensure the security of the country, even if it means spying on other countries. And if such infos were available,why not take it with the proper caution it deserves since its not only the administration that is at risk,but mostly the civilians.
But all we can do is suppose. Saying that the terrorist attack was badly handled and there was no way to make sure of what and when it happened is easy to say since the facts has been stated,yet again those were facts that were hand written by the hand of humans,and not any hands,american administration hands. In this case,we cannot be 100% sure of anything since we havent seen or heard anything.
And i dont know if its true,but heard in a documentary that ben laden's family in the u.s. were flown away from the usa,what im not sure about its if it was before or after the attacks,and if its before,well its fishy.
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| Basically, to sum up what you wrote: 1-when something is not clear, it is better to go with what seems to be clearer... Well, no, i dont believe in that - too many times in the past people have been "forced" to believe something and when people do that, it just limits their intellectuality. If no one can believe that there are other possibilities, then the world cannot evolve dont you think? i mean isnt it by doubting something that you somehow discover the truth? How many times have people decided to believe something and later on, after X years, found out that this was false? |
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| 2-i do know that there are not enough evidence out there to show that the US had anything to do with the attacks - but this just doesnt mean that there isnt any evidence - they could just be hidden or destroyed or wotever..... |
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| 3-You see, you cant really compare the unicorns' existence to 9/11 mystery. The unicorns may exist in some part of the world which has not been discovered yet - no one has reached that area. Whereas 9/11 attacks, the evidence is there, held by people....and it's just hidden and will not come out right now.... |
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| 4-The idea behind Pearl Harbour attack - i am not sayin that: Oh, well, it happened once, so it must have happened on 9/11 also. but i am just sayin that: "celui qui vole un oeuf, vole un boeuf" - meaning: if you do somethin bad once, you're very likely to do it again - and even worse....And i dont want to go through all that "Pearl Harbor was not a surpise" thing, i did it once in high-school and am not doin it again.....i think it has been shown enough times already....and the point is: people believe it was a surprise attack because they were "forced" to believe so.......yet, it turned out to be "somethin planned and known in advance". |
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| Anyway, this is an opinion vs opinion discussion....you could be wrong just like i could be wrong..... |
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| Where is the sound empirical evidence that the pentagon was hit with a 757? |
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| Epic, if u were american, i'd have rested my case, but you're not - you are able to see things differently than americans, so just dont limit yourself and limit your intelectuality by believing what "the powerful ones" say..... |
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| When something is not 100% true (and pffft, is that even possible anyway?) just dont believe it - and dont believe something else, just believe that there are A LOT of other possibilities and that there are A LOT of things hidden or undiscovered.... |
Epic,
well, sry for not providing evidence, but i think i can skip that when it comes to debating something logical and not logical....
and anyway,
what is logical?
what is true?
what is evidence?
what is reliable evidence? "If you have good reliable evidence that supports a certain theory, you should believe that theory rather than one that doesn't have this strong support for it. "
what is a clear rational methodology? "I'm attempting to support my opinion with a clear rational methodology"
what is right?
what is wrong?
people see these things in very different ways - what may be a clear rational methodology to you could be something useless and not good enough to make me believe what you are saying. Furthermore, the examples i have provided may be nothing but bullshit which are never gonna make u believe or think about what i am saying....
Now come on Epic, dont tell me that you dont think or believe that govenrments hide evidence - and if you want evidence that this is true, well, where are the video tapes that the FBI confiscated? Analyzing them? nu uhhhh.....
Do i believe whether Iraq had WMDs? Well, i dunno and this is what i said earlier - USA was not able to properly show that they HAD WMDs and IRAQ was NOT able to prove that they didnt have any.....both are equally possibilities, but i dont go for any....
You're just asking me to come up with evidence to everything i say, and well, i am not really gonna do that - i believe in things without needing any evidence...you may not.....and here, you obviously dont....i dont want this to go on forever, so wotever, i said what i wanted to say....
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| Originally posted by Epicurus Fine, then until this evidence comes up, I don't believe you're entitled to hold that position since you have no evidence to support it. |
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| Deejiuana, believe me when I tell you that I am intelligent and wise enough to draw my own conclusions without help from the aformentioned "powerful ones" |
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| Uh huh...so I guess, by your own admission, that means you're an agnostic regarding everything |
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| You're just asking me to come up with evidence to everything i say, and well, i am not really gonna do that - i believe in things without needing any evidence...you may not.....and here, you obviously dont....i dont want this to go on forever, so wotever, i said what i wanted to say.... |
Pink unicorms exist - i just saw one out the window.....
glad this didnt turn into a "fuck u, u lil fuck, why dont u believe this u fukin stupid ignorant"....
omg, now a blue unicorn...wow....
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| There is evidence, you just havnt got easy access to it and probably don't want to believe it. Check out the website I posted. Its not proof nothing is proof but at least open your mind to the possibilities. |
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| Pink unicorms exist - i just saw one out the window..... |
Lentil soup.....
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| Originally posted by Epicurus Are you being serious? I thought I already posted this article. I guess you must have overlooked it as evidence. Bodies identified in Pentagon attack The point being that they have already identified all people killed on flight AA 77 (except for 5 of them because no remains were found) AT the pentagon site! What more evidence do you want? Let's see, a plane containing these passengers dissapears that day. They have all the names on that plane, and all these people's remains (except for 5) show up on the pentagon lawn. Can you please explain to me how that could happen in your scenario? |
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| Originally posted by Epicurus Discojoe, I'm checking it out as we speak. There's lots of info there, so it might take me a while. As for my mind being open, it always is. I never said my beliefs were static and not open to change. They may change, according to the evidence presented. |
Screw the unicorns,lets talk about blackholes
blackholes has been confirmed to be immensely dense structures,so dense it can absorb whole galaxies,even light,just everything in its way and its speed is literally wicked,and its believed that in a black hole,time stops,nothing else exists.Yet we all learned that "nothing" cannot exist since its nothing,so there comes the theory of parallel universes (well more say that at a certain time,its get incredibly dense yet small,and it implodes giving birth to supernovas,but right before the supernova,it becomes a pulsar,but thats something else). The calculations behind this theory are very precise and accurate,yet again,no one's been in a black hole. We base ourselves on calculations,which most of time are precise but not 100% sure since we havent been there and we do not know nor have all the knowledge surrounding this phenomenon yet.So all of this,the theory on blackholes,unicorns,they're imaginary since we have no human way to confirm their existence/theory. So i think we're in a right to make any suppositions we want since well we dont know cause we havent been there,even the craziest of arguments can be taken.But for this 9/11, the facts are there,only thing blocking us from having access to this information is other humans who gained control over it.Why contain and hide information from people who voted for this administration and trust that goverments to lead them to safety?Why hide it if there's nothing wrong/nothing to hide? The voters has a right to know since it concerns them now more then ever cause they are the targets now.
Perhaps there's a good methodological way to get threw our statements,well i havent followed philosophy in university, but doesnt mean the poor mortal who didnt follow that course cant have any logical order in his ideas/arguments. We has thinking beens are gifted ,we can think and elaborate ideas in different ways,as crazy as they might sound. Galileo was sent to the "nut house" for elaborating his theory,that was revealed true after. He was ignored because he went against the writting of a solidly based institution that was christianism and the bible. Lucky Darwin didnt suffer the same faith even though he came close to it. So going against "stated facts" often bring doubt,the doubt that we need to actually look for the truth,thats where we see the human .
For the pentagon, gallons gallons of kerosene flaming reaching wicked temperatures that could melt metal,yet they founded bodies in this hell...dunno bout that,could be possible since we made clear that nothing is sure unless we're there. But probably should have been seriously burned,to id them,should have been dna tests,takes weeks if not months to id them all. So the funeral and all,i dont know about that.
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| Yes I am being serious. That article is about the funeral ceremony that was held. Nobody disputes that the flight was highjacked, went went missing or that the people died. But that article you posted twice is just an article claiming there was a funeral procession. It has nothing to do with where they were found. I ask you about evidence of 100s of eye witness accounts. I ask about NO evidence that a 100 decibal jumbo jet flew over a city of 7 million people and you give me evidence of a funeral procession. |
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| Lentil soup..... |
Thanks but no thanks 
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| Screw the unicorns,lets talk about blackholes blackholes has been confirmed to be immensely dense structures,so dense it can absorb whole galaxies,even light,just everything in its way and its speed is literally wicked,and its believed that in a black hole,time stops,nothing else exists.Yet we all learned that "nothing" cannot exist since its nothing,so there comes the theory of parallel universes (well more say that at a certain time,its get incredibly dense yet small,and it implodes giving birth to supernovas,but right before the supernova,it becomes a pulsar,but thats something else). The calculations behind this theory are very precise and accurate,yet again,no one's been in a black hole. We base ourselves on calculations,which most of time are precise but not 100% sure since we havent been there and we do not know nor have all the knowledge surrounding this phenomenon yet.So all of this,the theory on blackholes,unicorns,they're imaginary since we have no human way to confirm their existence/theory. So i think we're in a right to make any suppositions we want since well we dont know cause we havent been there,even the craziest of arguments can be taken. |
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| Perhaps there's a good methodological way to get threw our statements,well i havent followed philosophy in university, but doesnt mean the poor mortal who didnt follow that course cant have any logical order in his ideas/arguments. We has thinking beens are gifted ,we can think and elaborate ideas in different ways,as crazy as they might sound. Galileo was sent to the "nut house" for elaborating his theory,that was revealed true after. He was ignored because he went against the writting of a solidly based institution that was christianism and the bible. Lucky Darwin didnt suffer the same faith even though he came close to it. So going against "stated facts" often bring doubt,the doubt that we need to actually look for the truth,thats where we see the human . |
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| Originally posted by Epicurus Alright, so you're telling me that flight AA-77 disappeared on 9/11/2001 in the same time frame as the pentagon attack, that passengers on that plane died since they had a list of names of people on that plane and found the remains of those same people, BUT that somehow, flight AA-77 crashed and killed all those people somewhere else in this universe, completely unknown to us. |
when i w as talking about blackholes,i was talking about time stopping,that part of the theory cannot be verified physically,therefore cannot be confirmed at 100%,but true i wasnt very clear on that one.
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