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quote:

Originally posted by Dirk W. Look, some of what you're saying makes sense. Other parts are just completely opinionated and unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much right now. The reason being is that you just signed up for this, have never posted here before and then you bring all this wind about how you're right and everyone else is stupid. You might have wanted to take a more diplomatic approach if you wanted any of your posts to be taken more seriously. I have never heard of you or your label before so by reputation alone you're not very impressive to me. Try building some rapport with people before blasting everyone. Just some advice

I used to have a tranceaddict account but it became littered with weasles out to counter anything with common sense. I let it lapse a long long time ago as a result since it seemed at the time the board was filled with ignorant twits with no sense of history or forward looking direction. Normally I would take a diplomatic approach but frankly I could careless who I piss off at this point because there is no stopping what I have to say and will put foward shortly (yeah I know I have been saying that for a week now, but its a big big piece of work to put clearly into terms while explaining its functions and the process to enable what I wish to suggest as an alternative to the current state of affairs) and that will be all the diplomacy and comment time I will dedicate to tranceaddict forums. It's largely a waste of time. Actions speak louder than right???

quote:

Originally posted by Steven Hays You stole my next rebuttle. There's also singles on his site for d/l as well, you have to pay, however, but still it's the same as all mp3 sites. Except this one offers more to pay for and for shittier songs. And before you say it, YES I read the clause at the bottom about using them, but you can't expect people to buy songs and not use them for a functional use such a DJing.

Actually as the copyright owner/licensor etc etc. I can dictate terms on use. That's copyright law.

quote:

Originally posted by Inertia you're actually implying that moving up in the small-name DJ ranks is dependant on skill... AND format. excuse me, but aside from this being quite far from the truth, it's also ridiculous. EVERYONE here who has tried to get a gig knows that while skill may help, connections are where it's at. that's why the best new talents remain undiscovered for the most part. then you imply vinyl is more impressive to watch, given your first statement was true, if it's just about the music, format should matter to no one, furthermore, in a hypothetical situation, how would a promoter be able to tell what the kid is playing on his promo mix CD? you keep talking about CD DJs not being able to mix. if you've heard a CD DJ trainwrecking all over the place, i think it has absolutely nothing to do with their format. IMO, one of the smoothest mixers on this planet is Sasha. i saw him in December 2003 for instance, where he spun on both vinyl and CD, and was completely seamless. just because someone spins CDs doesn't mean they can't mix. on the contrary, i hear many people spinning only vinyl because they can't mix on CDs. i'm starting to get the feeling you are just peeved by CD decks... perhaps because you just can't get them down. "it's all about control", true, but if you need more control than the standard CD deck gives to just beatmatch a track (i mean, damn, if at least you were a turntablist) you may have a problem. today you have vinyl emulation, to cater to people that want such a thing. while many argue that it's not spot on vinyl emulation, it's quite close enough for beatmixing. you can tell me scratching on the things is shitty, and you need it because you're a turntablist, and i'll have to respect it, but when you say you can't mix well on a CD deck, it just means you don't know how to mix CDs. if you can't hold a mix for longer than 4 bars on a CD deck, then my friend, you just can't mix period.

I can mix on CDs easily. I choose not to because its BORING AS FUK, among other reasons.
And another thing, Sasha has to be one of the most boring DJs to listen to or watch. No offense to the guy I just don't like the term "progressive" being applied to music that goes no where. That's sasha/digweed/bedrock.

But this is my opinion based on observation. I would rather keep the names out of it frankly because like whoever they want for whatever reasons. But I don't like sasha not for his playing on CDs but from shear bordem in listening to and of his sets or seeing him play. Sleepy time tunes.

Tunes Sasha and Diggers cane are far more advanced and skilled then anything coming from your labels...not an opinion, but a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium Actually as the copyright owner/licensor etc etc. I can dictate terms on use. That's copyright law.

Hypocrisy is wonderful isn't it? Don't expect other websites to do as you suggest, because it is of their best interest and dictation to allow people to buy and use them. All your statements are bogus!

I can disagree with your comments for as long as it takes, and what's funny is you're the only one on the otherside of this arguement. Is there something ringing a bell here yet?

Just you wait there sparky.
Just you wait.

You keep mentioning this PLAN you have yet dont give any details about it.


Now you'll honestly have to pardon my ignorance or lack of proper reading skills; I did go through the FAQs of edmdigital and beatport and I'm having a hard time to decipher where they mention NOT being authorized to play their content in a mixed/public matter. Please guide me and I will be humble and recognize all wrong doing on my part.


I do also understand why you are so fervent in defending your position for vinyl; you have an agenda and that is the survival of your own label by the sale of vinyl.
I did get a little blurred in your statements but I understand some form of involvement with a shop as well; or from a distance at least.
Only remark I can make about the shops as well as the labels is that they are going to have to figure out a way to spread cds through these purchase locations or cheap ass djs as you desire to call them will all perform the switch to mp3.

It sucks big time, but at this stage it's not a choice but a reality that none can ignore.




I did somewhat mention this earlier but one statement I can make is that a particular close friend of mine has been operating a record label for about a year with 4 various releases at this stage all selling out. Average pressing has been amounted at 1000 .... all has been offered for digital purchase ( with an approximate 2 months or so delay ). There have been amounts of about 500 downloads per release, these release generating as much revenue if not more as the 1000 pressings.
Now if that is something that doesn't make sense from a record label point of view in trying to generate a return, I don't know what does.

There are a lot of pros and cons to cds, I will not deny that one single bit.

But do not call it a killing of an industry. At this stage labels have to seriously consider the shift or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.


I'm repeating myself just as much as you are.



If you are stating that a record label should NOT offer digital purchasing options ..... there's a big flaw in the business plan.
It can have great benefits if done right.

Well now you are starting to see the possibility of the other side of it where profitablity can be achieved.
I have been working on this "plan" but it will still be some time before the public sees it in full. The reasoning there is that I wish to gain support from key people in the industry from the bottom up and have them provide their feed back. At that time it will be re-evalutated based on their feed back and then introduced to the public. I think you will find at that time the formulation of the document and the plan for achieving this profitability will be very realistic and satisfy the singles consumer and the vinyl DJ will providing for a mechanism for continued sustainment of both industry section.

And from the beatport website for sections 8 and 9 here is the portion of their terms of use that basically throws a wrench into partnership they have with Stanton and the Final Scratch product for use with Beatport aquired digital singles.

Content Usage Rules. BEATPORT RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ENFORCE THE CONTENT USE RULES WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Your access to and/or use of any Track(s) will be limited by the rules assigned to the Track(s) by Beatport ("Content Usage Rules") and described in this section. You may not attempt, nor support others' attempts, to decrypt, reverse engineer, circumvent or otherwise alter or interfere with any software required for use of the Service or any of the Usage Rules.

A "Sample" is a promotional portion of a Track, in some cases an entire Track, which is made available to you while you are logged onto the Service. Samples may also consist of a promotional music video. Samples are offered at no cost to you, and you may play as many Samples as you like. You may not attempt, or support others' attempts, to download, copy, or capture a Sample.

A "Download" is a Purchased Track or other Purchased Digital Material that you can (1) transfer to a compatible portable device, (2) save to your hard drive with unlimited playback time, (3) burn to a CD/DVD. Beatport shall have no liability for lost, damaged, or destroyed Downloads. Any security technology that is provided with a Download is an inseparable part of the Download. The Download capability does not operate to limit any rights of the copyright owners in Tracks or Material or any works embodied in them.

You shall be authorized to use the Downloads only for noncommercial, personal use. The Downloads are strictly limited to your personal use and any use or sharing outside the doctrine of Fair Use, as provided in the United States Copyright Code, is in violation of Copyright and Intellectual Property laws.
Prohibited Uses of Digital Downloads. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, modify or disable any copy protection or use limitation systems associated with the Downloads. You may not play and then redigitize any Downloads. You may not create any "derivative works" by altering any of the Content. You may not use the Downloads in conjunction with any other third-party content (e.g., to provide sound for a film). YOU MAY NOT UPLOAD DOWNLOADS TO THE INTERNET. PEER-2-PEER FILE SHARING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Any other manner of network file sharing and transfer of Downloads to devices for such purpose is prohibited.
http://www.beatport.com/site/index.php?action=legal
Kinda weird huh??

Now what if you were permitted and even encouraged to do this but with a format restriction?

quote:

Originally posted by Aquaplex Audiojelly all the way

Oh for sure... www.audiojelly.com has an amazing selection, and they also have promo's on there too!!

It's quite interesting to see that some people here thinks that cdj DJs are boring, unskill, no fun to watch and so on when some very well known DJ only use cdjs, as an example Eric Morillo, he only uses cdjs. If I remember right I read once an interview of Eric M where he said that he will only play at clubs where the have Pioneer CDJ-1000. Another great example would be Markus Schulz, if you check out his top ten tracks this week, you'll notice that all the tracks are CDs (all TA producer tracks btw). I think that CDJs are great due to several reasons such as:
It's cheaper
Let's you try out unreleased tracks (your own or somebody elses)
It's pretty much the same as vinyl
etc...

Years ago it was harder if not impossible to played unreleased tracks, while now it's extremely easy.

I guess that people who are against CDJs are not producer or/and have a producer mate. Let me ask you a question, wouldn't you like to play out a track you produced ?
wouldn't you like to play out a kicka$$ track that a friend of yours produced?

Well if you said no then go back to the 80's and let us enjoy the great technology without being judge!
Cheers

same old tired short sighted arguments from the cd "mixing"types....

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium I can mix on CDs easily. I choose not to because its BORING AS FUK, among other reasons. And another thing, Sasha has to be one of the most boring DJs to listen to or watch. No offense to the guy I just don't like the term "progressive" being applied to music that goes no where. That's sasha/digweed/bedrock. But this is my opinion based on observation. I would rather keep the names out of it frankly because like whoever they want for whatever reasons. But I don't like sasha not for his playing on CDs but from shear bordem in listening to and of his sets or seeing him play. Sleepy time tunes.

ok, but now you are being contradictory. you claim you are able to mix CDs easily, which therefore proves that the format works for mixing. i do recall, however, you speaking about the control of vinyl, and even on your website, in a reply to an e-mail you posted in your fanmail section, you brought up staying away from CDs, staying with vinyl, as it's all about control, the control that is necessary to mix with; as if dismissing the capability to mix CDs properly altogether.

so you can mix CDs easily. you, by the looks of it, are not into mixing CDs, ie. not a CD DJ. but you've tried it out, and say you can. therefore, this sort of trumps your whole "CD DJs can't mix" theory.

i only used Sasha as an example of technical ability, (which you must admit he does have) not musical taste. either way, not to nitpick, but you say your dislike towards his music is not based on him spinning CDs, rather your own taste. this is at least a logical, and fair statement. but, which is it finally, are you as against CD mixing as you had previously said, or not? (declaring that digital mixing was evil, CD DJs suck, and all that good stuff...)

My 2 Cents...

I understand Vinyl purists to a degree, they put a lot of effort into getting hard to find/expensive vinyl, and have found fine tuned their ability in a medium that takes quite a bit of time to even learn to use in a functional sense, not to mention getting good enough where you as a Vinyl DJ become confident enough to playo ut to crowds. For us CD DJ's to just come in, be able to get whatever track we want for less moeny and much faster than the vinyl DJ, its almost like a slap in the face: Who are these young punks coming in and trying to steal all of us vinyl dino's thunder?

But lets call a spade a spade here...

Lith, your arguments are weak and hostile and they aren't going to get you anywhere with most folks on thes boards. If you as a person have a problem with the CD DJ, fine, but leave it at that. To say that CD's can't be mixed, and that the great talents in the world of Dance music use exclusively vinyl is absurd. Whether you like a guy like Ferry Corsten or not, I would hope there is no argument as to his technical ability. On NYD he rocked the Vision crowd in Chicago harder than anything I've ever seen in the states. I saw him spin exactl 3 tracks on vinyl. I thought the show was great, not flawless, but fantastic none the less.

So there's my two cents. Insert canned "Ferry Corsten Sucks" or "HAHA You like FC!" comment.... NOW!

Peace, Cheers,

RJT

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium I can mix on CDs easily. I choose not to because its BORING AS FUK, among other reasons.

I used to think this then I got one of these.



I'd say it takes the same amount of skill to operate one of these as a regular tt and that the same would apply to most vinyl emulation decks.

Plus buying this has saved me alot of money and space, also if I like a single release or remix I don't have to fork out �8 for a record which has mixes I'll never use when I can pick up the best one for �1.50.

quote:

Originally posted by Inertia ok, but now you are being contradictory. you claim you are able to mix CDs easily, which therefore proves that the format works for mixing. i do recall, however, you speaking about the control of vinyl, and even on your website, in a reply to an e-mail you posted in your fanmail section, you brought up staying away from CDs, staying with vinyl, as it's all about control, the control that is necessary to mix with; as if dismissing the capability to mix CDs properly altogether. so you can mix CDs easily. you, by the looks of it, are not into mixing CDs, ie. not a CD DJ. but you've tried it out, and say you can. therefore, this sort of trumps your whole "CD DJs can't mix" theory. i only used Sasha as an example of technical ability, (which you must admit he does have) not musical taste. either way, not to nitpick, but you say your dislike towards his music is not based on him spinning CDs, rather your own taste. this is at least a logical, and fair statement. but, which is it finally, are you as against CD mixing as you had previously said, or not? (declaring that digital mixing was evil, CD DJs suck, and all that good stuff...)

I will try to be a little clearer.
I can mix on CDs if I know the tracks on them inside and out and I know that the damd thing isn't going to fail on me right in the middle of a set (I have seen more people skip CDs than records - not saying records don't skip, but a skipping CD is a bit more obnoxious than a jump on a record... there is no way you can argue against that... like come on. "pop" or "dddudduudududududududuttttt.t.t.t.t.t.t.t.t.t.t.t..hehehehehehshshshshsshshshshshddooodododododododododo". I will take the "pop" any day for sure.

I watched christopher lawrence try a CD about two years back here in Vancouver and it exploded on him. That was the last time I saw him drop a CD-R anywhere and I have seen him play 3 or 4 times since.

Dude, you're really reaching now.

No offense, but this is not a good way to promote your label, you know, by pissing off a bunch of people attempting to be civil and productive on the forums. But then again, there are a lot of CDJ's on here, so you probably don't want them promoting your music on such an impure platform...

This topic has run its course. Next.

RJT

You're exactly right. I don't want you playing our stuff. Or any other labels stuff. :P

Paul Van Dyk? He lugs it around & Plugs right in. ( Dude it beats carrying 100+ Records ) We should appreciate technology & not be ignorant. Final Scratch is a break thru in Dj-ing. )

P.S. Bought mine!!! I'll be getting it in 2-weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium Blah, final hack. Ask yourself this... In what situation have you ever seen anyone except for one of the guys sponsored by FS/Stanton actually walk into a party and plug in?? It's never happened at any of the events we have played at or seen anywhere else, so do you think you are going to be able to go out and play at these places hauling your laptop and scratch box with you unless you put it in place before hand?? Just play records. If you don't like paying those prices? discourage people from buying digital and mixing that way as it kills things. The more records out there that are good that you by, the more stable the price will be and even go down. Hell we probably have some of the highest costs on our manufacturing and they are still 11 bucks canadian at djmr.com. Also when shopping look for tracks not from these "major big name people". I have found that some of the best stuff that is going to be more exclusive because of limited runs and no digital or cd singles available can be priced as low as 9.00 CND here at the main shops. It just takes some patience and some originality. You don't want to be playing the same stuff the guy before you did do you?

I have had conversations with the original developer of final scratch and while I won't quote him here I can say that he made if very apparent to me that the idea was neat but really doesn't benefit anyone in the end except stanton which is why he sold it to them and bailed.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium same old tired short sighted arguments from the cd "mixing"types....

This can only be said by someone who is a vinyl purist.
New things and pioneers are often being seen like stupids or morons.

But if everybody reacts like you do, we were still riding horses?

I digitized my music a year ago and went digital. And if you play the CD decks the same way you play vinyldecks, you can make it as easy or difficult as you want. I don't use cue-points or whatever. Reversemode? Nope... don't use it. Vinylmode all the way on my CDJ1000's!

We're moving forward......

LOL LOL LOL

This post is hillarious

Djlithium - you've been going way downhill in your replies dude, I think it's time to STFU.

I think a valid point which hasn't been brought up yet are the manufacturers behind CDJs. Who are they? Why the same ones who make turntables! And many companies who make turntables, but previously no CDJs are starting to introducing CDJs (ie. Vestax). It's no war people. It's about whether or not the traditional turntables become less profitable than CDJs to their manufacturer. Eventually, what WILL happen is the phasing out of most shoddier decks (as most beginers will start on CDJ). Well established decks such as tech 1200s will likely stay for awhile, but expect them to be integrated in sets with digital technology (ie. laptops). Sorry Lithium, but the simple fact is it's more compact/practical/cost effective/durable/etc than viynl, which is argueably just as important for some than positives associated with viynl.

You are still using the same short sighted argument that justifies your easy of access and use but you have no clue as to where this will all lead. Right into silence.
No more tunes, no more clubs, no more parties. How? because the crap you think you have such great access to is going to not be filtered out by any form of "taste" in music that one would have to naturally find in order to not waste money on worthless records....
Now you find it will be the same thing over again but even easier... with CDs, digital... yah hoo. A quicker way to get more crap on the dancefloor and push an already alienated audience further away.
I will not "STFU".

This thread is silly.

DJing (aside from turntablism) is simply mixing tunes so that people can dance to a continuous flow of music. When you're up in front of a crowd, what you're mixing on shouldn't really matter, it's your set that counts. No matter what kind of spin you try to put on it, CDJs are useful DJ tools, and more and more quality/big name DJs are using them. I can make a dozen tracks and edits, burn them, and play them in a club that same day. Up and coming producers can send burn endless copies of their new tune and send them to all the DJs they want for a minimal postage fee. And no, that's not "opening the floodgate of shit." Part of being a DJ is sifting through the shit and finding the good tracks that you want. I buy maybe 1-3% of the records I browse.

Until I can buy a vinyl presser for $60, and blank plates for $0.10 a pop, then CDs will have a useful and well deserved spot in our record bags, plain and simple.

dj lithium is a n00b and an imbecile, plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium You are still using the same short sighted argument that justifies your easy of access and use but you have no clue as to where this will all lead. Right into silence. No more tunes, no more clubs, no more parties. How? because the crap you think you have such great access to is going to not be filtered out by any form of "taste" in music that one would have to naturally find in order to not waste money on worthless records.... Now you find it will be the same thing over again but even easier... with CDs, digital... yah hoo. A quicker way to get more crap on the dancefloor and push an already alienated audience further away. I will not "STFU".

OMG SHUT UP. PLEASE.

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