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Re: Recording setups
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Pippins My collegues. Reading through the posting, I beleive, everybody had their own preferences on equipment setup. So I'd like to share mine here. I'd post a photo later sometimes. I'm a EDM fan, and that is my genre that I mix in my studio. I just released my CD today, my b-day. I use a SAGER NP5680 laptop configured for a DAW, running XP SP 2 1 GB RAM, 7200 RPM Ultra hard drive from Hitachi. M-Audio Firewire Audiophile connected via Firewire. For composition, creating melodies, I use REASON 2.5 in SLAVE mode, with Ableton live 4.1 For editing, and enhancement, I use Soundforge 7 and editing it in 24 bit. Then I take the tracks and put it back on Ableton Live for mixing, and beat matching. Of course, first thing is I manually warp and quanticize all my tracks. Then I render it in 24 bit WAV and AIFF file. The only problem I had till now, is I can't render in WAV if the final file size is over 2 GB. There seems to be some kind of OS limitation. I'd be happy to share ideas, if someone can help me in this. I also use DRM technology when making WMA files. so, when I distribute my mix with my friends, you get copy protection, and your hard work is secured. Trance on ! Cheers, DJ_Pippins |
gah. i listened to both those audio samples. the reason why it sounds better with the compression is because its simply louder! if you gain up the one without compression so that they are peaking at pretty much exactly the same level then thats a fairer comparison.
note also that compressors reduce dynamic range. running a compressor over an entire set will, depending on the amount of compression level out the frequency peaks and recesses of each track. the most common by product of this is that you will be able to make the overall signal louder without it clipping. the downside is that certain compressors can colour the sound with gain boosting (sometimes this is a good thing if you like the way in which the sound is coloured). an even bigger downside is that large reduction in dynamic range tends to make everything sound flatter and duller.
its a delicate balance. if you play 2 instances of an identical sound to any person, one which peaks at -3dB and one that peaks -0.5dB, nearly everyone will pick the louder sound as being the better one. its kind of a trick of the ears. in the end a 2 or 3 dB boost to a signal that is already amped to about 90 dB in club is going to mean fuck all difference. and if you are going to compress it harder, all it will most likely do is make everything sound duller and will change the dynamic of the original tunes.
I am not sure your explanation is really scientific. It's obvious that this plug in gives a sharper , more accurate sound. It gives it more natural sounds like you are there live and lets you hear things that can't be heard otherwise.
Whoever posted this plug in, thanks.
Yea, Derivative, I pretty much agree with you on everything you say on this forum, but as for this, I think its more than a db boost, I'm only starting to read about sound engineering, but this plugin really does make a difference, I tweeked it abit to create a certain sound, and it makes it sound much fuller and alive, like Erdega said about hearing things you don't normally hear, that is true, I hear alot more in tracks now, the only bad thing is when there is a breakdown in a track you can REALLY hear the clicking and popping, and even that has been given a more alive feel to it, I recommend people try this plugin out, its one of the best I've seen for winamp regarding sound.
do you know what a compressor is and how it works? i never said that extra volume is the only thing a compressor gets you. extra headroom is a by product of compression yes but its not the only use for one. compressors reduce dynamic range. there are advantages and disadvantages to this. it is a very important production tool and one that i use probably most often along with filters and parametric EQs. if the following explanation doesnt really help you to understand this then ill put up some audio demos to show you what happens. suffice it to say, if you go to soundclick.com and search for wandering kid - cave of orchids - that is an example of me going overboard with compressors. notice how the gong is squashed into this upper mid range mush as the compressor on the master bus releases after the bass peaks drop out of the mix. notice how flat the lead instrument sounds (i assure you, every tiny dB has been squeezed out of it). the upside? the bassline was compressed 3 times over and it sounds gigantic. which is always good. the downside? i overdid the compression on the rest of the track and it clearly needs reworking.
if you hop on over to the production forum you will see alot of people reluctant to use compressors on the master bus for this very reason. in some cases people will use a limiter to limit peaks and prevent clipping.
they are most often used to warm up basses and give more presence to kick drums and basslines although really you can compress anything (i compress my leads and hats too, often to force them to the front or rear of a mix or get a bit more snap on the hihats). how do they warm up basses? well if you hard compress a bass where most of the frequency response is between 40 and 140hz it will literally pull up all the troughs and pull down all the peaks so they are closer together. you can then amp the overall sound so that it peaks at the same level it did before but the overall bass presence will increase and the overall sound will be louder. in most dance music, dynamic range isnt so important for basses. presence is. hence why basses are often massively compressed. most bass heavy tunes have their bass end compressed enough as it is, straight off the record. dynamic range is much more important for instruments where you want them to have a resonant, 'ringing out' kind of quality and a sense of space and 3dness to the sound. for pads in particular, dynamic is more important than presence - why? because you can spread your pad out in stereo, its presence is all over the stereo field whereas your basses are nearly always monophonic and centred.
a compressor has a few basic functions that are worth mentioning - threshold, compression ratio and gain being the main ones. the threshold determines at what level (in dB) the compressor takes effect. the compression ratio determines the degree to which all sound above the threshold is compressed. the gain determines the loudness of the output signal.
as for the frequency range in which the compressor takes effect? it literally flattens out the peaks and troughs of the frequency response under effect - it reduces the dynamic range of the sound that is being compressed. the dynamic range of a sound is the difference between the loudest and softest point. there are definitely uses for having dynamic range - one is that natural sounding instruments resonate in a series of peaks. also, i like having pads with a healthy amount of dynamic range because it feels more...earthy. not quite so loud and centred. more 3 dimensional in a sense. overdoing compression can sometimes yield undesireable results. its really personal preference. bear in mind though that one of the by products of heavy compression is a gain in headroom caused by 'limiting' peaks (note that a limiter is essentially a compressor with higher possible ratios and is used in a slightly different capacity). this gain in headroom allows you to increase the overall level of the sound being compressed without it clipping over 0 dB - this is one reason why people tend to think compressed sounds are better than uncompressed ones - the difference in volume. that dynamic range though is there for a reason. have you heard kick drums with very little dynamic range? listen to any hard house tune. 90% of all hard house tunes have massively compressed kick drums. they sound like dull, hard and very loud thuds. it works in the context of that style of music but in trance the kick drums are typically rounder and have more volume dynamic as a direct result of less compression. sometimes overcompression just sounds shit. the same principle applies to most sounds. ive overcompressed leads to the point where they also sound dull and flat and thats a definite no no.
'more accurate sound'. what the hell does that mean? that song is produced to sound the way that it does straight up. if the producer wanted it to sound as if it had been played through a tube amp he would have recorded his entire song through a tube amp. likewise if armin wanted all his stuff to sound like it has a vintage compressor on the master bus, he would have put one on the master bus before the whole thing got pressed to vinyl.
compressors do not necessarily yield a sharper sound and using a compressor on all of your songs is not guaranteed to 'enhance' the sound at all. compressors are variable and their action is highly dependant on how you set them up and the frequency response of the signal you are running through it. therefore, you cannot run a compressor on entire DJ sets and expect everything to sound clearer and sharper. it doesnt work like that.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Derivative gah. i listened to both those audio samples. the reason why it sounds better with the compression is because its simply louder! if you gain up the one without compression so that they are peaking at pretty much exactly the same level then thats a fairer comparison. note also that compressors reduce dynamic range. running a compressor over an entire set will, depending on the amount of compression level out the frequency peaks and recesses of each track. the most common by product of this is that you will be able to make the overall signal louder without it clipping. the downside is that certain compressors can colour the sound with gain boosting (sometimes this is a good thing if you like the way in which the sound is coloured). an even bigger downside is that large reduction in dynamic range tends to make everything sound flatter and duller. its a delicate balance. if you play 2 instances of an identical sound to any person, one which peaks at -3dB and one that peaks -0.5dB, nearly everyone will pick the louder sound as being the better one. its kind of a trick of the ears. in the end a 2 or 3 dB boost to a signal that is already amped to about 90 dB in club is going to mean fuck all difference. and if you are going to compress it harder, all it will most likely do is make everything sound duller and will change the dynamic of the original tunes. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Derivative do you know what a compressor is and how it works? i never said that extra volume is the only thing a compressor gets you. extra headroom is a by product of compression yes but its not the only use for one. compressors reduce dynamic range. there are advantages and disadvantages to this. it is a very important production tool and one that i use probably most often along with filters and parametric EQs. if the following explanation doesnt really help you to understand this then ill put up some audio demos to show you what happens. suffice it to say, if you go to soundclick.com and search for wandering kid - cave of orchids - that is an example of me going overboard with compressors. notice how the gong is squashed into this upper mid range mush as the compressor on the master bus releases after the bass peaks drop out of the mix. notice how flat the lead instrument sounds (i assure you, every tiny dB has been squeezed out of it). the upside? the bassline was compressed 3 times over and it sounds gigantic. which is always good. the downside? i overdid the compression on the rest of the track and it clearly needs reworking. if you hop on over to the production forum you will see alot of people reluctant to use compressors on the master bus for this very reason. in some cases people will use a limiter to limit peaks and prevent clipping. they are most often used to warm up basses and give more presence to kick drums and basslines although really you can compress anything (i compress my leads and hats too, often to force them to the front or rear of a mix or get a bit more snap on the hihats). how do they warm up basses? well if you hard compress a bass where most of the frequency response is between 40 and 140hz it will literally pull up all the troughs and pull down all the peaks so they are closer together. you can then amp the overall sound so that it peaks at the same level it did before but the overall bass presence will increase and the overall sound will be louder. in most dance music, dynamic range isnt so important for basses. presence is. hence why basses are often massively compressed. most bass heavy tunes have their bass end compressed enough as it is, straight off the record. dynamic range is much more important for instruments where you want them to have a resonant, 'ringing out' kind of quality and a sense of space and 3dness to the sound. for pads in particular, dynamic is more important than presence - why? because you can spread your pad out in stereo, its presence is all over the stereo field whereas your basses are nearly always monophonic and centred. a compressor has a few basic functions that are worth mentioning - threshold, compression ratio and gain being the main ones. the threshold determines at what level (in dB) the compressor takes effect. the compression ratio determines the degree to which all sound above the threshold is compressed. the gain determines the loudness of the output signal. as for the frequency range in which the compressor takes effect? it literally flattens out the peaks and troughs of the frequency response under effect - it reduces the dynamic range of the sound that is being compressed. the dynamic range of a sound is the difference between the loudest and softest point. there are definitely uses for having dynamic range - one is that natural sounding instruments resonate in a series of peaks. also, i like having pads with a healthy amount of dynamic range because it feels more...earthy. not quite so loud and centred. more 3 dimensional in a sense. overdoing compression can sometimes yield undesireable results. its really personal preference. bear in mind though that one of the by products of heavy compression is a gain in headroom caused by 'limiting' peaks (note that a limiter is essentially a compressor with higher possible ratios and is used in a slightly different capacity). this gain in headroom allows you to increase the overall level of the sound being compressed without it clipping over 0 dB - this is one reason why people tend to think compressed sounds are better than uncompressed ones - the difference in volume. that dynamic range though is there for a reason. have you heard kick drums with very little dynamic range? listen to any hard house tune. 90% of all hard house tunes have massively compressed kick drums. they sound like dull, hard and very loud thuds. it works in the context of that style of music but in trance the kick drums are typically rounder and have more volume dynamic as a direct result of less compression. sometimes overcompression just sounds shit. the same principle applies to most sounds. ive overcompressed leads to the point where they also sound dull and flat and thats a definite no no. 'more accurate sound'. what the hell does that mean? that song is produced to sound the way that it does straight up. if the producer wanted it to sound as if it had been played through a tube amp he would have recorded his entire song through a tube amp. likewise if armin wanted all his stuff to sound like it has a vintage compressor on the master bus, he would have put one on the master bus before the whole thing got pressed to vinyl. compressors do not necessarily yield a sharper sound and using a compressor on all of your songs is not guaranteed to 'enhance' the sound at all. compressors are variable and their action is highly dependant on how you set them up and the frequency response of the signal you are running through it. therefore, you cannot run a compressor on entire DJ sets and expect everything to sound clearer and sharper. it doesnt work like that. |
im entirely self taught. its weird because i end up doing more work related to production than i do related to my degree (history of art. hah!)
basically the only reason why i have come as far as i have is people on the net who took the time out to write some tutorials or bothered to take the time out and explain to me how this works or how that works. this is why i tend to write essay length posts trying to explain stuff. sort of give something back to the community wot raised me. awwwwww.
im working on a tut of my own but it'll take ages till its finished. gah.
as for how i learned EQ and compression - theres bits and peices all over the place but this article has contributed to the biggest single leap in my production and DJing that i think everyone should read it:
http://www.dnbscene.com/articles.php
the article is called 'thinking inside the box' by hipnotic. read this article. memorize it. keep it in mind everytime you touch the EQs on your mixer. then read it again in case you forget. alot of the tutorials on that site are very informative, detailed and they dont just apply to drum and bass - rather any type of music. hence why i like this site. you can apply this tutorial to any sound engineering purpose. even DJing. especially if you plan your sets in advance or for recording sets because then you can get EQ configs set up between tracks and if you are post processing your mixtapes these tuts will be seriously helpful.
another useful site where i learned stuff was:
http://www.spinwarp.com/modules.php...rticles&secid=1
this is where i learned how to program absynth amongst other things.
no jargon. no technical bullshit. just some really clear explanations. some nicely laid out diagrams. and a sense that the whole thing is coherant and refers back to itself.
compression is tricky. its not like any normal effect. you cant just switch it on and forget about it. its action is dynamic. kind of like EQ. if you leave an EQ on and cut the sub cuz its a bass heavy track, when you transition into the next tune which is slightly basslight, the same EQ settings will murder the warmth and sub end of this new track. the EQ settings for one song do not necessarily work for another. similar with compressors. avoid compressor presets at ALL COSTS. i cannot stress this enough. as a general rule i would avoid software EQ presets aswell.
Thanks for the links man, I'll check them out when I get home.
I always wondered why each of your posts are like a book long, now I know, I think self taught is one of the best ways of learning as you don't pick up anybody elses bad habbits or likes and dislikes, you get to develope your own view of what your learning, I'm a self taught DJ, and I think it has helped for me to finally find a style and sound I like.
i reckon i could have a books worth of material on this forum. i should just compile it all, edit it and release it under the provisional title 'some stuff wot i found out wot might help u'
best sella i think! 
Re: Recording setups
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Pippins My collegues. Reading through the posting, I beleive, everybody had their own preferences on equipment setup. So I'd like to share mine here. I'd post a photo later sometimes. I'm a EDM fan, and that is my genre that I mix in my studio. I just released my CD today, my b-day. I use a SAGER NP5680 laptop configured for a DAW, running XP SP 2 1 GB RAM, 7200 RPM Ultra hard drive from Hitachi. M-Audio Firewire Audiophile connected via Firewire. For composition, creating melodies, I use REASON 2.5 in SLAVE mode, with Ableton live 4.1 For editing, and enhancement, I use Soundforge 7 and editing it in 24 bit. Then I take the tracks and put it back on Ableton Live for mixing, and beat matching. Of course, first thing is I manually warp and quanticize all my tracks. Then I render it in 24 bit WAV and AIFF file. The only problem I had till now, is I can't render in WAV if the final file size is over 2 GB. There seems to be some kind of OS limitation. I'd be happy to share ideas, if someone can help me in this. I also use DRM technology when making WMA files. so, when I distribute my mix with my friends, you get copy protection, and your hard work is secured. Trance on ! Cheers, DJ_Pippins |
i must say that djing is the most expensive activity(/lifestyle) i have ever taken part in... i thought golfing was expensive..... ha...ha.........ha
but remember... this thread has to do with producing and that is a whole new ball game with a whole new list of expenses
i know of this guy who is trying to be the next elvis... he is three hundred thousand dollars in debt on the financing of production equipment etc
three.... hundred...... thousand
mind you that is in canadian funds 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by fr3sh i must say that djing is the most expensive activity(/lifestyle) i have ever taken part in... i thought golfing was expensive..... ha...ha.........ha but remember... this thread has to do with producing and that is a whole new ball game with a whole new list of expenses i know of this guy who is trying to be the next elvis... he is three hundred thousand dollars in debt on the financing of production equipment etc three.... hundred...... thousand mind you that is in canadian funds |
U know, I hate it seeing spoilt little shits who ave rich parents.
They get like $4000 of equipment given to them, just like that...
it's so fooking unfair...
BTW,
on that compressor plugin, try this:
60 Hz: +6dB
170Hz: -3dB
310Hz: -12dB
600Hz: -12dB
1KHz: -6dB
3kHz: -6dB
6kHz: -12dB
12khZ: -12dB
14kHz: -3dB
16kHz: +8dB
THen with the plugin:
Stereo expander:
level % =100
depth mS= 20
This sounds fooking awesome...
NOTE: my headphones respond very poorly to 16kHZ frequency. Check if that applies to urs, and adjust the equilizer accordingly
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nou LOL! Hey, it takes prodding and not feeling any guilt too! Its not a total cakewalk. /me types this on his 3000$ laptop he got for his birthday last year....  |
I'm just wondering, If i'm using something like Virtual DJ,
then how would I get the output to go through winamp, or any progrm that can I is similiar to that compressor. Becasue seriouisly, it makes the quality of sound sound so much better, if u tweak it right.
From VDJ, to compressor, to internet and sound output.
(live internet show)
how???
can you compress it while recording your set?
reason i'm asking is because i'm using a laptop with a soundcard that doesn't support wave or line-in recording...only records from the mic input....
That is cool and all, but if you mix isn't good to begin with what is compression going to do for you?
There is a newer version of the plugin out (1.31) it has some minor changes and actually comes with loadable pre-sets.
Click here for the download.
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