TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- DJ Booth
-- Audio Engineer
Pages (3): « 1 2 [3]
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJFreaq not sure about that dude!!! but i'll keep my eye's open... art institute seattle, right outside you're window, you live in Elliot Bay apartments? |
So you guys say that the SAE education is quite poor?.. am more or less a stupid newbie in audio knowledge so I guess I would still learn alot and have a great time but will there be opportunities to get a job in this market in the future? or is it really as many people seem to be thinking that you have to know alot of people and be well known?
I guess that must be different to where you are living and such...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by trancinchink audio engineering or music technology major is all about studio work. recording, mastering, live recording, mixdowns, learning about electronics, learning about studio equipment, learning how to design equipment or software, etc. etc. |
full sail
hey man I go to fullsail in orlando. It's got great equipment and you do learn alot. Kinda has a so so rep from what I hear and is super expensive but It's hard to get any cool job. ckeck out there web site.
K i spent 2 and a half year doing audio engineering at the center for digital imaging and sound in Vancouver BC. I specialized in audio post production for film. Very hard field to get into, like if you are looking at getting a job working in a recording studio its next to impossible. Pretty much where i am i could probably make pretty decent cash working out of my house, i just neeed to buy a protools rig.
My school was VERY expensive, i have massive student loans that will take years to pay off. I would avoid AI. my school got taken over by the art institute half way through my 2nd year and the changes the made did damage to the program. Instructors left and they cut our studio access time. In a program like that you pay for the studio time, our studios were open 24hrs a day and we made use of the 12am till 5am time a lot, i did my best work at 4 in the morn. AI took away our 24 studio access for 2 months, yet the raised tution. After a near student revolt they finally gave it back to us, i expect a year since i graduated they have taken it away again.
anyway man give me a pm if you want more info, Ive spent a lot of time in this field, and I can let you know about what to expect as well as job prospects and such.
-Kyle
good stuff here, i'll add my bit too. basically confirming what everyone else said.
i'll say what i know from what i've done. I graduated from NYU's Music Tech dept in 2004, and i'm currently at the University of Southampton doing my MSc in Sound & Vibration.
the music tech program at nyu is what it says...it's a degree split between the conventional music degree (music theory, music history) and the tech degree (production, mixing, recording, and a little bit of electrical circuit theory). from what i've read on other programs at other schools...the nyu program is the one that is split right down the middle, which is why i chose it.
as Derivative said, audio engineering at Southampton University, is basically an engineering degree. circuits, maths, algorithms, etc. that would be an example of a more tech degree as opposed to music.
how can u tell? NYU awards you a B.Music in Music Tech, Southampton awards you a B.Engineering or B.Science Degree. Other schools, (SAE, Full Sail, various audio institutes) also offer certificate degrees and such. Point i'm making is...research the school. there's plenty online and read through their course prospectus, course info, degree programme, whatever they call it to get a full idea of what it is. better yet, arrange an appointment with the school and ask them what the course is about.
one thing i want to point out in the audio engineering career is that u really have to know what you're getting urself into. i think most will agree that people who get into this stuff (like the real deep stuff of what happens when sound is created, manipulated, destroyed, whatever) are in it for a true love of sound. it has nothing of the glamour of what you make out commercial producer life to be. what you never see is that behind almost every successful producer there is the unsung true engineer at heart. (for example, tiesto's great classical sounds in magik journey? if i'm not mistaken, written and engineered by geert huinink). and to get to that point of being an audio engineer takes a lot of work, love, patience, and pride-swallowing time.
what i mean by this is, we all love music, but do u have what it takes to spend hours mixing down a candypop song? becuz when you start, you will be the lowest of the low...and with the state of how things are now, even its rare that u will be living a happy thriving life. a friend of mine in asia who is one of the leading independent studio owners...and an amazing composer, audio engineer in his own right...has to take jobs mixing down buddhist chants to help pay the bills. can u imagine listening to hours of droning monks for days on end?
to get a job in a thriving studio nowadays is near impossible unless you have incredible connections and talent. i am not ashamed to admit, i gave up on that route cuz i know while i may know plenty on audio and engineering, i dun have that patience to be working like that and not getting anywhere in life until i'm well in my 30s or 40s. sure there are plenty of success stories, but in all honesty, it's rare someone can study to be a mix engineer, mastering engineer, recording engineer...and actually get somewhere within a few years of graduation.
so back to my main point...know what you are getting urself into, find out more on the degree that is offered at the various schools, and take some time in thinking about what you want to do with that degree. i love music and i love sound, and for me, i chose to get my masters in acoustics (eventho it is fucking hard) cuz i kno i dun want to struggle trying to find a job as an audio engineer and would rather try my luck going into consulting in an acoustics firm.
anyway, that's my input...hope it helps and was coherent to some degree. and for those that are curious, an acoustics degree is nothing like your general acoustics course. it is more math and physics than u could ever imagine. 
any questions, feel free to ask or pm.
^^ legend
Ok, as some of you may already know, I work at SAE now as a supervisor/teacher.
Before that I already graduated in a local school teaching audiovisual techniques. It was mainly connected to the broadcast and cinema work, not really with music. As I felt I wanted a complete package, I decided to attend SAE too, in Belgium, my country. I enrolled in their Audio Engineer course, full time.
I graduated last year, and they thought my grades were pretty good, so much they offered me a job there. Pretty awkward feeling to take exams off (or even teach) people you studied with some weeks before 
So, I have the luxury (curse) to be able to see both sides of the coin.
For one thing, yes, I agree, lots of ignorant people come to SAE. And I gotta agree too, not every SAE will react the same to those people. If the money counts, they'll probably say : "Sure, come on in, you'll learn everything you want, and be successful in your career". Personally, I can say at "my" SAE, you're not getting enrolled unless you have a very long discussion with either of us, to see if the drive is really there.
You cannot imagine how much peole come to us with the reason : "yeah I saw this dude on tv, behind a large console, producing (...) hiphop, then he drove of with a big Mercedes with lot's of chicks in it..." Certainly that isn't a good reason to become sound engineer.
Even with people that claim, they want to make their own music, so they want to learn sound engineering to make better tracks of their own, that's not the best reason either. It might be better to take the Electronic Music Producer course for them. Cheaper, and they won't get desillusioned.
They got to understand that :
1) sound engineering has a lot of aspects, it's not only about music
2) it requires a lot of (active) work to get somewhere
3) the chance one of them will become a rich succesful engineer is very slim, even if they work hard for it. A lot of dedication is needed, a lot of ass kissing, and a lot of luck too. That's the business... I'd even say more, be prepared to live in the shadow of other people. One of my teachers once stated about movies : "when people saw a great movie, and they come out of the cinema, you often hear them say "great scenario, great images and lighting, nice suspense...", but rarely if the sound was good. Most of the time when people talk to about the sound, it's that something was wrong or annoyed them. I think that statement can't be more true, even in music. When a great album is released, the composition is praised, the musicians skills etc... But don't forget a big deal of the sound was shaped by the engineers.
4) it's only honest to say that the certification you get won't be a guarantee to getting work in the business. At most it's a personal proof you're not too shabby at what you're doing. But in the business, they won't hire you because you're waving a paper that says you graduated with 95% at SAE, they'll hire you because you've proven your skills to them someway...
Even when people get accepted in the school, we see pretty quickly which kids are there because either their parents pay for them or they don't know what else they want to do in life. Obviously we could say, sure let the money flow, but what's the use. At the end, they won't probably get there anyway, and they're only getting in the way of people who really want to work.
Personally, I can't understand if you pay shitloads of money for your education, how you can stay there without your maximum interest.
Sometimes we see students only doing recordings or mixes because it's one of the compulsory ones, and for the rest we don't see them.
We're in a business where practice is the most important thing to improve your skills. If are lucky enough to go to a school that gives you the infrastructure (wether it is SAE or another one), well use it.
When I was a student, I can't remember how much time I spent in the studios (working ). Basically, if something was free, I was there.
They seriously advise you not to have jobs beside the course if you are a full time student, due to lack of time. Yet, I managed to do plenty of jobs on the side (live, broadcast, on location recording, etc... Heck, what can I say, the nights were still free The only thing I had to drop a bit was dj'ing, which is a shame. Maybe one day I'll pick it up again), and have no regret of doing, on the contrary. And that's the thing I expect from people that really want to succeed too.
About the theory courses, I'm sorry it was such a bad experience for you Freak. I can't say at "my" SAE the courses are 100% complete, but the essentials are there (no mic or mic placement theory wtf, that's inadmissible). Seriously for the price you paid, you could expect to at least have the essentials, otherwise I'd say it out loud. If they wouldn't listen, I'll take it to a higher level.
I wasn't happy about some aspects of the course, and I went to the coordinators and manager to discuss about it. Luckily those people here are willing to take criticism and learn from it. Things are slowly evolving, but they are evolving (in the right direction might I add). That's partly why I accepted to teach too, because I know I have some solid knowledge in area's that weren't completely explained there. And people that know me, also know that I like to share that knowledge.
But if I look back at what is teached at SAE, I can say, for myself, it's a pretty complete package. Although I must say that if you're already pretty much experienced in the business (like I was when I entered SAE) there are some parts that can seem "noobish". The courses start from the very basics of sound (although I wonder what you're doing at a +8000$ course if you've never seen a record button in your life before).
But in short, I gotta agree fully with binkun here.
Know what you are getting yourself into. The term is sound/audio engineer. Not music or dj artist. You must have a deep passion for sound in general, and most importantly be prepared to work a lot. A lot lot. And sometimes for peanuts. Also be prepared to face that because you graduated in a sound engineering school that you'll make it in the business. I'd mostly say such schools, if they're doing their work right, prepare you for a life of work, work and yet again work. And mostly not to strive for money and success (which is nice if you get it anyway of course), but for quality and self fulfillment. Because at the end of the day, if you can say : "today I worked on a project, I'm very happy about what I did, and most important my client is very happy about what I did", that is an excellent feeling, and what drives you to continue in what you are doing.
It's extremely important to focus on other things then Sound Engineering exclusively because if you don't chances are you will never get anywhere.
The reality of the business is studios are shutting down left and right, high end gear has become extremely affordable, and anyone willing to save up a penny or two can have a home studio up and running in their own bedroom while before even the most minimal tasks required the use of a studio for demos etc; the demand today is just not as present but there are other factors to take into account.
What attracted most of you to the field is exactly what will prevent you from ever entering it!!!! As I just said previously as the access to technology has grown and start up costs are a tenth of what they used to be well ... specialists aren't felt as being as necessary as in the past ... you get the picture.
So alternatives you may ask?
While I do believe that anyone who sincerely wants to pursue a career related to sound ( and not someone who just started considering it 6 months ago when they saw an ad at the back of Electronic Producer or Remix Mag ) should try with all their might they must face reality before it's too late!
Do not overspecialize yourself: as in study only one domain but nothing else!
Learn multimedia film producing sound design acoustics etc etc
There are multiple careers surrounding sound from a close and far point of view some as creatives others are consultants etc etc.
All these courses that are titled : Audio Engineering and crap are just a stepping stone. Merely 1% of what you need before you can add the rest of the 99% with your own experience and say " I have arrived ".
Oh and I've always said and I stand by my words DJ's are the worst sound engineers They think it's hard to operate a dj mixer well wait till you see a 40 track live board with all the Eqs Aux's Subgroups etc 
I did live sound for orchestras bands conferences raves etc also did sound installs for 5+ years without any outside help. While I'm totally capable I just don't have the desire to go through the silly struggles and lack of stability and wake up at 40 looking like a roadie.
Ps: Hey Binkun how you been? havent spoken to you in like 2 years or something :P 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by jdat Oh and I've always said and I stand by my words DJ's are the worst sound engineers They think it's hard to operate a dj mixer well wait till you see a 40 track live board with all the Eqs Aux's Subgroups etc |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nemesis44 The truth is that if someone has trouble with the mixer they are probably not a very good DJ either. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nemesis44 The truth is that if someone has trouble with the mixer they are probably not a very good DJ either. Cheers Nem |
just something about those round little knobs...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by b i n k u n sadly, the opposite ain't true either. i'm decent at mixing sound, but now i often find myself twiddling the eq so much on a dj mixer i forget to properly dj sometimes. just something about those round little knobs... as for clueless djs, you'd be surprised actually at how many mix engineers don't understand the basics of circuit theory or digital/analog theory...an old professor at nyu used to get very animated when talking about a certain very well-known sound engineer because he insisted that on a digital mixer, the meters still have headroom because analog meters always go to +4, +8, etc ...and therefore the 0dB mark on the digital meter is not the max limit. (never mind that red lights were going off everywhere and the sound was absolutely crunched...) also unfortunate is that "louder is better" will always remain as the most commonly mistaken idea in sound. PS: wtup jdat! pm sent... |
One reason why I hate playing the 2am slot. Usually had some guy before me hammering the system to buggery and also the sound is either so bass heavy it's like a swamp on the dance floor or people are fleeing with bleeding ears due to too much high end.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by b i n k u n as for clueless djs, you'd be surprised actually at how many mix engineers don't understand the basics of circuit theory or digital/analog theory...an old professor at nyu used to get very animated when talking about a certain very well-known sound engineer because he insisted that on a digital mixer, the meters still have headroom because analog meters always go to +4, +8, etc ...and therefore the 0dB mark on the digital meter is not the max limit. (never mind that red lights were going off everywhere and the sound was absolutely crunched...) |
) tend to read those bars as if it were the only way.| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nemesis44 Louder is better... In my opinion, if I'm on the dancefloor in a club that has a 700 capacity. If I can't hear what I'm saying to someone else then it's way too loud. I like trying to get people to hear all the details in the music and this usually means bringing it down just a touch. I guess, it's sound engineers would be no different as you get good and bad in all walks of life. Cheers Nem |
^^
| quote: |
If I'm not mistaken 0 dB in the digital world equals clipping correct? |
crunching on 0db = FUCKED in digital land
and normalization also causes distortion
louder is better as many have said is the sad truth to many people.
eq-ing goes the same way. equalizing something is also destructive, especially when you amplify a specific frequency. like, it's hilarious, I go into a studio and see a certain track, with the high-mid, high, and low knobs cranked to MAX and the mid is left alone. hmm why not take out the mid and amplify overall, that is essentially what you're doing, but in a less destructive manner
no one gets it. oh well. blah blah blah.
word up to this thread.
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.