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-- *TA Tuner Thread*
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Posted by Soundwerks on Mar-31-2005 15:57:

*sigh*

You guys are really making me miss my ride


This is what I'm sportin' now....a 2004 Mazda 6 Wagon.

Its a great car, but I wish I got it in manual....dumbass dealer screwed up everything (long story).




If I had money, and it wasnt on a lease, I'd still do a few things to it.....drop it just a tad, an intake and a nicer exhaust...plus maybe some stiffer sway bars and stiffer shocks. Not too much, but just enough to make it more "sporty".


Posted by Tranceplanted on Mar-31-2005 16:17:

Is it just me, or does anyone who have built a ride, and then grew up (read "had more pressing bills to pay..." ), still would without a doubt on pretty much on any car they buy in the future still drop it and slap on bigger rims and better rubber, even if they do absolutely nothing else?


Posted by zoogla on Mar-31-2005 17:21:

Okay I tried accessing my Civic links from work and saw that you can't so here are the pics:

Smokey Cannon...


Sparco Pedals...


Money shot...the flag, by the way, is for my web group of Ferrari F1 fans (actually it's the official manufacturer's fan site: www.ferrariworld.com) pretty good perks, like the flag! And the driver's a friend, not me!


Corner pose with the TANABE in all its glory...


Action shot...


And full-frontal!


Posted by zoogla on Mar-31-2005 17:39:

I have to admit, I deserve a Rice Ticket for the oversized exhaust tip, especially because it wasn't set smugly in the bumper (there was like a 1-1.5 inch gap between the steel and the plastic but I was planning on getting a skirt package that would take care of that.

You don't see a pic of what she looked like after I installed the Eibach Pro Kit springs with the Koni Yellow shocks. My next task was to get the upgraded brake kit (didn't want to get better rims without red calipers; the rusty stock ones would look dirty)...but then I crashed it.

I didn't deserve to have that car at that age; I was WAY too immature. Story of my accident:

I was with my fiancee (then girlfriend) on July 23, 2001. It was a Monday morning I'll never forget. We had just been to my bank branch to pick up a balance confirmation and draft that I was going to take to the French Consulate down at Bloor and Avenue Rd. I was planning on moving to Paris for a year (where my fiancee is from) to live and work, after graduation.

I was getting on the 401 westbound ramp from southbound Kennedy, cruising, when this 2001 BMW 3-series was riding my ass. I wasn't going slow or anything, but the guy was going left to right, DIRECTLY on my ass, looking like he wanted to overtake me on the single-lane ramp!

I eventually got pissed off and dropped the hammer and just took off. It was 10:30 am on Monday morning; most of the traffic died down but there were still quite a few cars and rigs. I must have been going at about 170, weaving through traffic and I was actually losing the guy. I finally decided to give up and move to the centre lane, and the guy caught up and tried to block the middle to keep me from changing lanes. Obviously I was pretty stupid, but at this point the guy was scaring me with his psychotic behaviour.

Anyway, I swerve to the left, and he quickly comes around to my left! So when I tried to go back left, I wasn't looking, and I clipped a Nissan Pathfinder (probably at about 130-140 km/h at this point). My rear bumper corner (passenger side) just touched the front left corner of the SUV and it threw me into an unrecoverable spin, across the 4 lanes of the collector's, just west of Warden.

I can remember thinking, "Please God, don't let any cars hit us" and I saw headlights TWICE as we did a 720 across the highway. Thank God He answered my call and we ended up smashing nose-first into the concrete barrier. The enging was completely smashed in.

My fiancee told me to slow down just as I started to take off from Kennedy but I ignored her. Then she was somehow able to look down and read her magazine as I was going nuts. She was used to it from my history of speeding tickets and stupidity so she ignored it. Only this time, she had seatbelt burns, a broken ankle, and an aching neck.

Ever since that day, I vowed NEVER to soup up my car again and drive WAY more responsibly. Which is why I have a dilemma: a Prelude with so much potential and a desire for the mods, but a conscience that will always feel guilty!

Well, that's enough from me. Hope I didn't bore you guys to death!

Fahad


Posted by zoogla on Mar-31-2005 17:41:

Yeah, there's more, like what happened with the cops, my licence, my trip to France, etc...will save it for your questions! (If you care!)
F


Posted by VERTiG0 on Mar-31-2005 18:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Tranceplanted
Not entirely true. With very little back pressure, especially with a larger turbo housing, it would take a long time for your turbo to spool tothe proper rpm, and hence you would suffer turbo lag. Back pressure is important for a turbo, and as for the overheating issue, the blow off valve is designed to release the excess pressure that the turbo cannot utilize.


No, no no no. The turbocharger itself provides backpressure that the engine needs, that an exhaust would provide for a normally aspirated car. If you could, you'd be best off running no exhaust straight out of the turbo which would allow for the freest flowing turbine wheel. More backpressure from the exhaust makes your turbo very efficient. You should read some of Garrett's technical writeups

As for the BOV, that wouldn't help at all becuase the BOV is before the throttle. If it were, say, in the cylinders or something sure that'd help, but since it isn't, that doesn't work at all. Not all cars have BOVs anyway, or can even make real use of them. Twin turbo 300ZXs are usually much more efficient with recirc valves than BOVs because of the silly "do-everything-twice" design of the VG30DETT. However, some of the newer BOVs out there can open faster than recirc valves and therefore keep the turbo spoooled up marginally longer. It's not much, but any performance gain is good.*


*all from my hardcore 300ZX TT buddy


Posted by Playa24_7 on Mar-31-2005 18:54:

quote:
Originally posted by Skuce
Since I'm here....might as well throw up a few shots of my car.








it's going to have another nice little item under the hood this year...tired of being slow-ish

meh...it's all good

http://www.streetsourcemag.com/Prof...Profileid=32750


I think your the guy that put the lambo doors on my friend Caynes car


Posted by VERTiG0 on Mar-31-2005 19:17:

fayaree, your Civic was clean. Very clean. All except for that relatively useless muffler Your Prelude, yes, more potential, but also weighs some 3400lbs I believe. That's a HEAVY ASS CAR. More of a grand tourer than anything. Plus, it's FWD


Posted by MarkT on Mar-31-2005 19:55:

WTF...I thought I posted a reply last night...

backpressure in a turbo app is BAD. Don't take my word for it...read the bible itself "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell..."Backpressure in an exhaust system is evil". (refering to turbo apps). pipe size has less to do with backpressure than exhaust layout and the components themselves (header, cat, muffler).

A guy I know, an engineer who formally worked for Ford and who has designed, built, installed and tuned his own turbo application on a Focus, had this to say: The problem is that so many people go find the biggest turbo they can fit in there because they want huge top end power. Problem going big is that their turbo takes forever to spool, at a high rpm level, then kicks you in the ass when it finally does. While great on the drag strip, it's not so great for a daily driver, track car, or auto-x car. His philosophy is to set a power goal and then use the smallest turbo that will get you there. His Focus spools with almost NO lag and drives as smooth as it did from the factory.

Getting the flame suit ready, but BOVs seem to generally be *lame* from a performance perspective. Doesn't venting to the atmosphere, instead of recirculating that air via a bypass valve, briefly mess up a/f (when shifting) since the incoming air has already been measured before the BOV? Turbo gurus can correct me, but I think I've got this right. Since the BOV vents the excess air (when shifting) instead of recirculating it, the actual air/fuel ratio is NOT what the ECU thinks it is and you briefly run rich when you shift. This may or may not be a big deal for some applications...but...it sure could be on others. Bypass valve > blow-off valve...but people like the cool sound BOVs make, lol.

Prelude? nah...those cars are *pigs* (far too heavy for their power level). You'll find very few "fast" Preludes out there that didn't cost a fortune to get that way or aren't gutted. Many tuners shun them for *much* easier/economical modding of Civics or even Integras (though I don't care for either of them either, lol).

Vertigo...I'm serious...how is that car "rice"??? Ok, I *really* don't like the plate relocation...but rice, IMHO, is a car modified to look fast when it isn't. ie. mods that *imply* performance where none exists or actually impair performance (fart pipe exhausts, big aluminum wings, over the top F'n'F style body kits on stock cars, slamming a car on cheap springs without dampers, etc).

He's done a lot of work to the car, but nothing that implies it's "fast". Shaved handles, the drop (with decent components, not just lame springs resulting in a bouncy ride), plate relocation, etc. maybe it's not your or my taste, but it's definitely not rice.


Posted by VERTiG0 on Mar-31-2005 20:17:

Yes, BOVs are pretty much just for show.

quote:
Originally posted by MarkT
Vertigo...I'm serious...how is that car "rice"??? Ok, I *really* don't like the plate relocation...but rice, IMHO, is a car modified to look fast when it isn't. ie. mods that *imply* performance where none exists or actually impair performance (fart pipe exhausts, big aluminum wings, over the top F'n'F style body kits on stock cars, slamming a car on cheap springs without dampers, etc).

He's done a lot of work to the car, but nothing that implies it's "fast". Shaved handles, the drop (with decent components, not just lame springs resulting in a bouncy ride), plate relocation, etc. maybe it's not your or my taste, but it's definitely not rice.


I guess our definitions of rice are different. To me, the car is ridiculous But whatever, to each his own.

Myself - I think show cars are retarded as hell.


Posted by MarkT on Mar-31-2005 20:20:

I'm with ya there...I absolutely can't stand the show scene.

but...I respect that people put a lot of time and effort into their cars. I can appreciate that they've done something that makes them happy, even if it's not my taste at all (as is the case here).

let's face it...if we want to get into what is, and what is not, rice...there are WAY better examples out there


Posted by Skuce on Mar-31-2005 20:31:

Yeah...I put Cayne's doors on.


And yeah...when I said that there is going to be a little something under the hood. Yeah...FI it is.

I have an intercooled Eaton M62 that I'm still getting a few parts together for.

And yeah...those are shaved Escort GT rims...the biggest I would EVER go is 17"...I really want a set of 16" Mazda Miata 5 spokes with nice rubber.

and just for the record...I hate "rice" ... huge pointless Decals, 3' high Wings on FWD cars, Massive stupid body kits that cause more drag than anything, 18" rims that weight more than my dad.

I like clean lines and skirt kits


Posted by VERTiG0 on Mar-31-2005 20:33:

quote:
Originally posted by Skuce
And yeah...when I said that there is going to be a little something under the hood. Yeah...FI it is.

I have an intercooled Eaton M62 that I'm still getting a few parts together for.


How about slapping that M62 on an LS1 and running a tunnel through your floorpan, then a driveshaft through there, to drive the rear wheels... Thus creating the most badass $400 Escort in the universe.

Eh? Eh?


Posted by rabbitjoker on Mar-31-2005 20:37:

Check this shit out:

http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/

You'd scare the hell out of some FI import with that thing...


Posted by zoogla on Mar-31-2005 21:01:

True, true...my Lude weighs a TON!!!! Not very fast in its current version. I was thinking of keeping it for the long term and souping the shit out of it (very cleanly, of course!!! FULL ENGINE/HANDLING MODS) but come to think of it, I'll save up for the STi instead. I've been dreaming about that beast for a long time.

I wanted my next car to be an S2000; they have a much better power-to-weight ratio; there's just something about taking an NA car and transforming it to FI with all the bells and whistles along the way...it's like FRICKIN LEGO!!!!!

I drove a RWD Peugeot 406 (touring car, designed by Pininfarina) when I was in Paris...what a f'in BEAUT...Can't wait to go RWD/AWD.

F.

P.S. MarkT, absolutely bang on about the easier Civic option; I've been doing a lot of research and it is SO much harder to find the good stuff for my Lude. I was looking into Skunk2 but they are so focused on Acuras and Civics it's not funny!

Vertigo...you're gonna give me Escort nightmares now.

Skuce...I like clean skirts too, esp. when they're on my bedroom floor! LOL!


Posted by MarkT on Mar-31-2005 23:13:

quote:
Originally posted by Skuce
Yeah...I put Cayne's doors on.


And yeah...when I said that there is going to be a little something under the hood. Yeah...FI it is.

I have an intercooled Eaton M62 that I'm still getting a few parts together for.

And yeah...those are shaved Escort GT rims...the biggest I would EVER go is 17"...I really want a set of 16" Mazda Miata 5 spokes with nice rubber.

and just for the record...I hate "rice" ... huge pointless Decals, 3' high Wings on FWD cars, Massive stupid body kits that cause more drag than anything, 18" rims that weight more than my dad.

I like clean lines and skirt kits


*thumbsup* clean is good I like a car that only other car people know is a sweet ride Sleepers rule.

interested to see how the Eaton works out...what are you going to do to for tuning/fueling? Chip? or standalone like Pectel? That's always the killer on cars...improper tuning...then, *KABOOM* goes the engine one day or a rod flies through the hood, lol

V8 Focus is a *crazy* expensive conversion...although the expected weight shift to the front end isn't as bad as one would think, I've read. That gets *major* points for being different, but again, WAY better off (power and $$$ standpoint) just going with a properly fueled/tuned turbo kit. Tom Lesperance in N.Carolina builds turbos and is running 11s with well over 300whp on his DAILY DRIVER Focus. In fact, while he's long since beefed up the engine, he acheived 300whp on STOCK internals.

S2000 is nice...I'd take an STi over one any day though...cheaper, faster, AWD (hello all-season fun), and TORQUE. STi would eat an S2000, no problem. STi is more raw though...the S2000 drives very nicely on the street (yay Honda for having shit power down low, lol) and is whisper quiet in comparison.

If you go with an STi...without a doubt the man you want to know if you're looking for serious power is Marco Passante at Magnus Motorsports...his shop is *the shit* for DSMs and STi:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/index.htm


Posted by VERTiG0 on Apr-01-2005 00:14:

Dammit. My buddy moved to California back in '01, and he currently drives a '94 Integra GS-R with a GReddy turbo and some serious tuning. His latest dyno tune session yielded him 292hp to the wheels and 211lb-ft torque to the wheels. Figures about 340hp at the crank.

I visited back in August 2003, took a ton of pics and had them hosted on his car club's website (www.outuvit.com) but it seems that since then they've overhauled it and the pics are gone

Currently he's leaving the 'Teg as is, and searching for an FD RX-7 to toy around with.


Posted by Skuce on Apr-01-2005 00:27:

Fuel Management is just a Jackson Racing 12:1 A-FMU...stock injectors are 15# so they are fine up till about 7 psi on my engine...same with my fuel pump.
The "most" that I'll be getting with the Eaton is 6 psi since it's a 3.5" clutched pulley on it....and the fact that I'm putting on an intercooler....realistically looking at just 5 psi.
The car is EDIS ...so timing adjusting is a bit tricky. But a few friends of mine and I have been doing some R&D into that...and found a way to use a hobbs switch to retard the timing when it goes past 5 psi (cheaper than going with a J&S system for now)but i seriously doubt that I'll need to alter my timing since I'll be staying under the 5 psi mark.
Almost everyone with a CVH (9.0:1 C/R) engine doesn't have a single knock problem till after 5 psi....the SPI ('97 up generation with a 9.4:1 C/R) ppl usually have it from 4 PSI on with stock timing.


Posted by MarkT on Apr-03-2005 01:20:

^^^ see THAT is all I need to hear to dismiss the "rice" criticism, Vertigo

btw...thought people might appreciate this little beauty...lots of pics in the link...the wing and paint job are not so great...but this car would be pretty damn fun to drive

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&category=43919




Posted by zoogla on Apr-03-2005 02:18:

That engine looks like a scene out of the MATRIX!!!! Those are SICK exhaust headers!!!!


Posted by Skuce on Apr-03-2005 02:22:

hehe...thanks

And yeah...I have a BIG personal issue with BOV's
With MAFS systems it's a big no-no because you are venting already metered air. So the comp with run rich for a split second.
True...nobody ever blew up a motor from being too rich (now that I read that...Some ppl are too rich and blow up motors all the time...meh)

...anyways

Yeah...a lor of ppl in my make/model club run open atmosphere BOV's on their MAF controlled cars. And then they do comment on a slight bogging down when they shift (no shit! really?!)Another thing I've noticed is that they run the IAT sensor in it's stock loaction...instead of near the T/B to read the heated air...so then the computer is advancing the timing causing a helluva lot of knock. Usuallly that isn't the only thing wrong with their system (ie: it's all about the FMIC that's the size of Utah with square endtanks *sigh*)
Bypass valves Pwn!!11 BOV's in my opinion

Sure...a VAFS system does work work better with a BOV.....but I still have issues with the methodology of it sounding cool with your brand new "Chrome" HKS SSQV Blow off that you got from ebay last week vs. having a very stable A/F ratio through the whole power curve.

On my system I'm just going to be running a OEM 97' GSX Bypass valve. It's not going to "sound cool" but it has the largest diameter ports that I can find for a Bypass beside shelling out for a Procharger unit.

*meh*

Bypass > BOV ...in todays world


*Edit: nice pics (delete wing and stickers tho and I'll be happy)....I like that header and how they have a massive wastegate. I still like it when they give priority to the WG instead of it feeling like an afterthought


Posted by Tranceplanted on Apr-03-2005 05:16:

quote:
Originally posted by VERTiG0
No, no no no. The turbocharger itself provides backpressure that the engine needs, that an exhaust would provide for a normally aspirated car. If you could, you'd be best off running no exhaust straight out of the turbo which would allow for the freest flowing turbine wheel. More backpressure from the exhaust makes your turbo very efficient. You should read some of Garrett's technical writeups

As for the BOV, that wouldn't help at all becuase the BOV is before the throttle. If it were, say, in the cylinders or something sure that'd help, but since it isn't, that doesn't work at all. Not all cars have BOVs anyway, or can even make real use of them. Twin turbo 300ZXs are usually much more efficient with recirc valves than BOVs because of the silly "do-everything-twice" design of the VG30DETT. However, some of the newer BOVs out there can open faster than recirc valves and therefore keep the turbo spoooled up marginally longer. It's not much, but any performance gain is good.*


*all from my hardcore 300ZX TT buddy


I stand corrected, my apologies. I guess my understanding was based on the fact that you're going to have to rely on the NA portion of the engine's power band until you can get your turbo to spool up to proper speed, which would require some backpressure to have decent response. But you are absolutely right that at the higher rpms, high amounts of back pressure would be completely detrimental to the turbo's performance and safety.

With the BOV, even though it's stationed before the exhaust, pressure, if excess pressure is in the housing, wouldn't the blow off valve still engage, regardless of which way the pressure is coming from? The valve is still linked to the pressure in the housing isn't it? Or is it am I missing something here?


Posted by malek on Apr-03-2005 05:31:

just a question like that,... how do you open the doors of that escort?


Posted by zoogla on Apr-03-2005 06:18:

Sorry about the ridiculous amount of space between this text and the table below! I tried as much as I could to get rid of it but I couldn't!!!!

Anyway, I wanted to share some research with y'all. I found the Prelude's Torque:Weight ratio to be much better than the Civic's and thus the lower 0-60 time, and HP:Weight ratio is slightly better. I also included a few other of the cars we've been discussing.

One anomoly is the better HP:Weight ratio for the Celica GT-S (vs. Prelude) yet the manufacturer's 0-60 time is slower than the Prelude's. Wasn't sure if that was a mistake; the Lude is about 450 lbs. heavier!!



































































































CAR HP TORQUE 0-60 Curb Weight (lbs.) HP:Weight Ratio Torque:Weight Ratio Compression Ratio
2005 WRX STi
300 300 5.1 3309 0.091 0.091 8.2 (max boost 14.5 psi)
2005 S2000
240 162 6.3 2838 0.085 0.057 11.1
2005 TT
225 207 6.3 3223 0.070 0.064 9
2005 RX-8
238 159 6.8 3045 0.078 0.052 10
1997 Prelude
195 156 7 2948 0.066 0.053 10
2005 Celica GT-S
180 130 7.2 2497 0.072 0.052 11.5
2000 Civic SiR
160 111 7.2 2600 0.062 0.043 10.2


Posted by Skuce on Apr-03-2005 06:24:

quote:
Originally posted by malek
just a question like that,... how do you open the doors of that escort?


I have a remote on my key chair. That fires a 35# solenoid in the bottom of the door which pulls the latch internally....door pops open


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