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quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The gap between developing nations and the industrialized world is closing. Look to china, india, and may parts of south america for proof of this. In fact the reason why gas prices are so high is because of the rapid growth in india and asia.

LOL. Sorry I have to laugh at this statement. Let me make a few corrections.

The gap between the RICH POWERBROKERS in developing nations and the industrialized world is closing. Look to china, india, and many parts of south america for proof that their RICH are gaining wealth that can be compared to wealthy first world nations, where their poor are getting poorer.

The fact of the matter is, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. A small percentage owns a majority of the worlds wealth. It's not the nation's population that is getting closer to closing the gap, but the nations wealthy upper class.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 But living in poland doesnt qualify you to be an expert on communism

I never said I lived in Poland or used me being half polish as a means of credibility in my argument. I only stated how a former communist country provided education to its people.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by karim LOL. Sorry I have to laugh at this statement. Let me make a few corrections. The gap between the RICH POWERBROKERS in developing nations and the industrialized world is closing. Look to china, india, and many parts of south america for proof that their RICH are gaining wealth that can be compared to wealthy first world nations, where their poor are getting poorer. The fact of the matter is, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. A small percentage owns a majority of the worlds wealth. It's not the nation's population that is getting closer to closing the gap, but the nations wealthy upper class. Karim

Well we were comparing whole nations to whole nations. Not segments to segements. Because the same can be said in Canada. Since we have enveloped more socialist policies our rich are getting rich and the poor are getting poorer.


Id like to see how many people in their 20s today have a house, 2 cars, and a cottage on one income like my dad did. And he was just a normal middle class person back then.

quote:

Originally posted by karim I never said I lived in Poland or used me being half polish as a means of credibility in my argument. I only stated how a former communist country provided education to its people. Karim

So your armchair theories hold more weight than a person who acutally lived there???? I only let you off the hook somewhat before because i thought you had actually LIVED in Poland.

The fact that you havnt means you have absolutely no leg to stand on when it comes to this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 thats because opinion varys about everything in every society. Her views are no less valid then yours. And just because you have some degree doesnt exactly qualify you either. Life experience is what counts and people speak from their experiences. While i respect your opinion i simply dont agree with them based on my life experience and neither does delicious and i suspect most of the rest of the world. Communism had it's day and it failed miserably.

Life experiences may not always be the best source either. Political discussion brings out both views of the argument. Debates like this open both sides of an argument and often, political science text books are written in ways that present both sides of an issue.

Cuba isn't as bad off as the american media would like you to believe. A fair representation of Cuba would show them living their lives and not being exploited. Their drug trade, although existant, is not as big and rampant as Colombia's. Here's a blurb I found on cuba through google:

quote:

Cuba makes a successful effort in widespread and available health care. All Cubans recieve free medical care, regardless of socioeconomic standing. All areas of Cuba have doctors, whether urban or city. The ratio of doctors to Cubans is one doctor per 200 Cubans (The Cuban Experience, 1998). Much attention is devoted to the care of the children. Specifically affecting children is the emphasis on childhood vaccinations. Over nine out of ten one-year-olds are fully vaccinated, protecting them from diseases such as tuberculosis, polio, and measles (Green, 1998). These are impressive statistics considering Cuba's poor economic situation. In 1997 Cuba managed to rank second best among 78 developing nations using the Human Poverty Index. The Index blend is composed of literacy rates, life expectancy, access to health care and safe water, and the percentage of malnourished children. Maintaining health care has been an impressive feat considering their economy has diminished by a third since 1989. Many believe Cuba should be a positive model for other developing countries. Yet, it falls short when providing medications, even basic ones like insulin, aspirin, cold medication, and penicillin, to its people. Prescriptions, even over-the-counter drugs, are scarce and are therefore rationed. Imported medications and much needed medical equipment are not an option for Cuba as a result of restrictions mandated by the U.S. Trading with the Enemy Act in 1959. In response, Castro made an unsuccessful attempt informing an indigenous health industry. The state pharmacy rarely has medications available to the average Cuban. In order to cope, Cuba's health care approach not only includes equity, but also includes priority of care for vulnerable groups in society, like women, children, and the elderly. Overall, Cuba demonstrates devotion to its people, especially its children. References Garfield, R. & Santana, S. (1997, January). The impact of the economic crisis and the US embargo on health care in Cuba. Green, D. (1998). Hidden Lives: Voices of children in Latin America and the Caribbean. London and Washington: Cassel

Now that shows that Cuba is in better standing than many of the other developing nations out there. One might think that Cuba could be better off had they not had such limitations forced upon them by the USA.

quote:

Many believe Cuba should be a positive model for other developing countries.

I'm one of those many.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 So your armchair theories hold more weight than a person who acutally lived there???? I only let you off the hook somewhat before because i thought you had actually LIVED in Poland. The fact that you havnt means you have absolutely no leg to stand on when it comes to this one.

Absolutely no leg? Are you kidding me? Poland only recently started charging for education. My 2 cousins (one a judge, the youngest female judge in poland, and the other a doctor) both got their educations for free. And I know nothing about it because I didn't live htere?


Karim

Here's something to think about that applies to us. The Ecstacy trade.

Alot of the chemical drugs are produced in post communist nations after communism collapsed, because many of these educated, qualified scientists were out of employment and wouldn't be hired by alot of the first worlds pharmacutical companies. In turn, they use their skills in illicit drug manufacturing.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Well we were comparing whole nations to whole nations. Not segments to segements. Because the same can be said in Canada. Since we have enveloped more socialist policies our rich are getting rich and the poor are getting poorer. Id like to see how many people in their 20s today have a house, 2 cars, and a cottage on one income like my dad did. And he was just a normal middle class person back then.

True and that is a flaw in our system.

I often hear immigrant success stories about how somebody came to Canada with $300 and is now a millionaire.

Hell, I heard that Mike Lee-Chin (worth $2.6 billion) came to Canada with only a few hundred and is now one of the richest men in the world. But that doesn't say much when most of Canada starts their lives in deep financial debt. $300 is alot more than -$15 000.

But the difference between Canada is that we are still capable of affording a standard of living for our lower class.

Alot of the homeless in Canada are homeless because of drug use, distrust in the system, or believe it or not, a preferance in that lifestyle.


Karim

And I guess Jayx1's gone.

Anyways, I had fun having this debate. It burned time while I was waiting for my laundry to finish. I look forward to meeting you in person Jay.


Karim

while we're on the subject, back in the day people had to make a choice between going to university or going to the army...education was indeed free and was VERY tough!

To this day I laugh when on the news they are reporting that "poll suggests students are too stressed, students get too much homework, students are overworked"... bull crap

quote:

Originally posted by karim Here's something to think about that applies to us. The Ecstacy trade. Alot of the chemical drugs are produced in post communist nations after communism collapsed, because many of these educated, qualified scientists were out of employment and wouldn't be hired by alot of the first worlds pharmacutical companies. In turn, they use their skills in illicit drug manufacturing. Karim

They are out of employment because there was no need to build up the military after the collapse of the USSR. Do you really want employment at the expense of war?

Im not syaing that any nation is guilt free of this, but that is the reason those scientist are out of work. it has nothing to do with communism vs capitalism.

quote:

Originally posted by karim Absolutely no leg? Are you kidding me? Poland only recently started charging for education. My 2 cousins (one a judge, the youngest female judge in poland, and the other a doctor) both got their educations for free. And I know nothing about it because I didn't live htere? Karim

werent you the one saying that "i have a friend that lives there" arguement has no creedence?

So which is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 werent you the one saying that "i have a friend that lives there" arguement has no creedence? So which is it?

I wasn't giving credibility to somebodies ideological belief based on their residence in a communist nation. I was simply stating a fact that said nation offered free education. 2 VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 They are out of employment because there was no need to build up the military after the collapse of the USSR. Do you really want employment at the expense of war? Im not syaing that any nation is guilt free of this, but that is the reason those scientist are out of work. it has nothing to do with communism vs capitalism.

Once again I'll bring up a fact about Poland because it is the meth haven of europe (in terms of manufacturing). And Poland really didn't have that much military expansion back in its days of communism.


Karim

military buildup and scinetists are quite far apart...true, many scientiest did work for the military...but many of them now work for the US military instead that's fact #1

Fact #2 - who said there is no need for military after the collapse of the USSR..do you really think they just stopped developing new things? As far as I understand the only way to get to and from space at this point in time is through Russia They don't have things falling apart (courtesy of the capitalistic approach of building cheap - ex North American cars...)

Anyway...don't get the military involved there are very different things....actually now that I think about every single peson in my family (from my mother's side) were scientiests - still are...none did anything for the military

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