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Originally posted by Jayx1 The same arguement can be used for booze. Which will most likely be the next thing they go after since the tobacco cause is almost over.

Now you're just being unreasonable and stupid. They are NOT banning smoking entirely. Yeesh. You're probably one of those conspiracy theory people that think aliens abducted Elvis and the moon landing was fake.

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Originally posted by Thracky Sure there are lots, but find me numbers that tell me that alcoholics and chronic weed smokers are outnumbering or in equal numbers to cigarette smokers. It's only a black and white issue if you're a person who can only think in absolutes, after all it's not as if they're banning smoking entirely. They are simply making it so it's a little harder for people who smoke to harm people who choose not to. I personally think DSR's were a great idea, and I'm not necessarily saying this smoking ban is the BEST thing for club business, but I seriously doubt it's going to have a *large* effect on club revenue. I support smoking bans because as a person who chooses not to shorten my life VASTLY on a daily basis, I don't want people forcing their smoke on me and i don't think I should be restricted as to where I can and can't go because of it. Call it hypocrisy if you want, but it's a fact that smoking is a much larger problem than anything else. At least when I drink I don't give OTHER people long term health problems (unless I'm stupid enough to get in a car and drive, which I am not thank you) and same when I smoke weed, I don't do things that would be detrimental to other people. Hell I won't smoke weed inside, period, not because of the smell, but because I don't want to bother other people. Unfortunately smokers don't give a shit and now claim this whole thing as some sort of huge loss of freedoms. As far as legalizing weed goes, I know why it's not legal because it has an immediate detrimental effect on how you act. And it doesn't surprise me it's not legal.

banning DSRs has no effect on second hand smoke because non smokers are already protected. Im not a smoker and i see it as curtailing freedom as well. And if losing smokers wasnt going to cost revenue why would clubs spend 100s of thousands on DSRs? No one has any need to enter a DSR unless they are a smoker.

Justify it any way you wish but you can never get past the fact that you do things just as detrimental to your health. Which is why you cant use the health care arguement. After today we may have private medicine anyways so soon we wont have to worry about this useless arguement.

And the real reason that they dont ban tobacco is because the government is addicted to taxes. Its much harder to grow and refine tobacco on your own whereas growing pot outdoors is very simple. Thus why one is legal and one is not. Thats the ONLY reason. Dont fool yourself.

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Originally posted by Thracky Now you're just being unreasonable and stupid. They are NOT banning smoking entirely. Yeesh. You're probably one of those conspiracy theory people that think aliens abducted Elvis and the moon landing was fake.

They wont ever ban smoking complete because as i said, the government is addicted to taxes.

But just wait until the zealots turn their attention to booze and fast food (more than they have already)

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Originally posted by Jayx1 banning DSRs has no effect on second hand smoke because non smokers are already protected. Im not a smoker and i see it as curtailing freedom as well. And if losing smokers wasnt going to cost revenue why would clubs spend 100s of thousands on DSRs? No one has any need to enter a DSR unless they are a smoker. Justify it any way you wish but you can never get past the fact that you do things just as detrimental to your health. Which is why you cant use the health care arguement. After today we may have private medicine anyways so soon we wont have to worry about this useless arguement. And the real reason that they dont ban tobacco is because the government is addicted to taxes. Its much harder to grow and refine tobacco on your own whereas growing pot outdoors is very simple. Thus why one is legal and one is not. Thats the ONLY reason. Dont fool yourself.

It restricts my freedom to go into a room that maybe I want to go into :P

And things JUST as detrimental to my health. Prove to me that a few beers on the weekend (which actually a beer a day has the same BENEFICIAL effects as a glass of red wine....) and a joint once or twice a month is AS detrimental as smoking 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day. My consumption of two or three beers every once in a while does NOT cause me to use the health care system, and chances are it's not going to increase the probability of me needing to use the health care system in the future. Same with the weed. With cigarettes it's almost a SURE thing that it will cause the use of more healthcare dollars per person, if not immediately then in the future as the person ages and smokes more.

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Originally posted by Thracky It restricts my freedom to go into a room that maybe I want to go into :P[/quote} really? an what business do you have being in a DESIGNATED SMOKING ROOM if you are a non smoker? thats just rubbish... [quote] And things JUST as detrimental to my health. Prove to me that a few beers on the weekend (which actually a beer a day has the same BENEFICIAL effects as a glass of red wine....) and a joint once or twice a month is AS detrimental as smoking 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day. My consumption of two or three beers every once in a while does NOT cause me to use the health care system, and chances are it's not going to increase the probability of me needing to use the health care system in the future. Same with the weed. With cigarettes it's almost a SURE thing that it will cause the use of more healthcare dollars per person, if not immediately then in the future as the person ages and smokes more.

even if you are right which i dont think u are, the healthcare arguement has already been sucessfully been proved as being null.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 They wont ever ban smoking complete because as i said, the government is addicted to taxes. But just wait until the zealots turn their attention to booze and fast food (more than they have already)

Why is it that when the government tries to improve something like health, all sorts of people assume it's motivated by money. They are PAYING 35 million dollars to help people convert tobacco crops to a different kind of crop, AND an additional 15 million to help those southern ontario communities attract different investments. Bullshit it's about taxes, it's about improving the health of the province.

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Originally posted by Thracky Why is it that when the government tries to improve something like health, all sorts of people assume it's motivated by money. They are PAYING 35 million dollars to help people convert tobacco crops to a different kind of crop, AND an additional 15 million to help those southern ontario communities attract different investments. Bullshit it's about taxes, it's about improving the health of the province.

And they take in BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in sin taxes.

Whoopie so they spent $50 million....yay...

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Originally posted by Jayx1 even if you are right which i dont think u are, the healthcare arguement has already been sucessfully been proved as being null.

It's not proven until there's fact to back it up. So far you've given me nothing but opinion and vague "pseudo" facts.

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Originally posted by Thracky It's not proven until there's fact to back it up. So far you've given me nothing but opinion and vague "pseudo" facts.

well then likewise...


There is no doubt that all of these activities affect your health. But you are ignoring the fact that you cant use health care costs as an arguement because i have already successfully contested that position.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 And they take in BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in sin taxes. Whoopie so they spent $50 million....yay...

It's not about how MUCH they're spending... it's the fact they're spending it on something that will LOSE them tobacco revenue. (because MOST of canada's tobacco comes from southern ontario) Think about it, paying crop owners to switch from tobacco (which is taxed heavily) to something else will probably make the government LESS money.

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Originally posted by Thracky It's not about how MUCH they're spending... it's the fact they're spending it on something that will LOSE them tobacco revenue. (because MOST of canada's tobacco comes from southern ontario) Think about it, paying crop owners to switch from tobacco (which is taxed heavily) to something else will probably make the government LESS money.

I guess thats why they keep raising tobacco taxes then. They are set to go up again next feb.

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Originally posted by Playa24_7 I moved into an area with clubs, the clubs are to loud, I want them shut down, even though it was my choice to move there. An example of the bullshit people do.

The best one so far, the people living around the airport who complain about the noise of the planes. Because of them, we can't land planes between 12am and 6am. Canada's busiest airport shuts down 6 hours a day.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 well then likewise... There is no doubt that all of these activities affect your health. But you are ignoring the fact that you cant use health care costs as an arguement because i have already successfully contested that position.

That's the same rationale as saying "I win because I say so"

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McGuinty said tobacco is the No. 1 cause of preventable illness in the province, killing 16,000 Ontarians a year and costing the provincial economy $2.7 billion annually in lost productivity. "It costs the health-care system alone $1.6 billion," he said.

Okay so show me numbers that say weed and alcohol cause those kinds of losses.

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Originally posted by tw1tch The best one are the people living around the airport who complain about the noise of the planes. Because of them, we can't land planes between 12am and 6am. Canada's busiest airport shuts down 6 hours a day.

how about the people in oakville who bought into a new subdivision next to a refinery and then complained about pollution. Now 400 people are out of work because they were successful.

Or the same residents who moved in next to a long extablished skateboard park and are now trying to have it shut down because of the "noise" that the kids make.

This country is out of control.

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Originally posted by Thracky That's the same rationale as saying "I win because I say so" Okay so show me numbers that say weed and alcohol cause those kinds of losses.

No i didnt win because i say so.. i won because i successfully argued my position and you had nothing to say in response. Because its a pretty ironclad arguement.

If you dont want to pay my healthcare...let me opt out. The end.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 how about the people in oakville who bought into a new subdivision next to a refinery and then complained about pollution. Now 400 people are out of work because they were successful. Or the same residents who moved in next to a long extablished skateboard park and are now trying to have it shut down because of the "noise" that the kids make. This country is out of control.

Then move. You'll find that people are the same all over the world. Like in the USA where you can sue a restaurant for making coffee too hot. It's not the country, it's mankind in general and unless you leave the planet you won't be getting rid of it any time soon.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 No i didnt win because i say so.. i won because i successfully argued my position and you had nothing to say in response. Because its a pretty ironclad arguement. If you dont want to pay my healthcare...let me opt out. The end.

If you read what i posted there was a response... NUMBERS that say how much smoking costs ontario. Find me numbers larger than that regarding weed and alcohol and I'll give up :P

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky If you read what i posted there was a response... NUMBERS that say how much smoking costs ontario. Find me numbers larger than that regarding weed and alcohol and I'll give up :P

and i said that it doesnt matter because i want an opt out and that i all of these things are deterimental.....

whether i have to pay $10 or 10 cents for your health based on weed or tobacco why should i have to pay anything? Wasnt that your original arguement? Why should i have to pay anything for smokers? Well why should i have to pay anything for weed smokers. whether its as big a problem or not its still costing me money right?

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Originally posted by Thracky Then move. You'll find that people are the same all over the world. Like in the USA where you can sue a restaurant for making coffee too hot. It's not the country, it's mankind in general and unless you leave the planet you won't be getting rid of it any time soon.

Move? why so you can win? No id rather restore my country to the freedom loving, non whiney place that it was not too long ago.

maybe the whiners i listed above should be the ones to move.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The same arguement can be used for booze. Which will most likely be the next thing they go after since the tobacco cause is almost over.

It could...although one can responibly drink. In fact, moderate consumption has been shown in many studies to actually promote health...the same cannot be said for smoking. A bar/restaurant's business is food and drink...not cigarettes.

It's unfortunate that the addiction is so strong that people can't get through a 2 hour dinner without needing a fix.

I love ragging on smokers, lol...nothing personal...just exposing this issue for what it is...a battle to keep an addiction as widely accepted as possible.

While some people are rightfully concerned with revenue losses for business...poll the anti-bylaw people and you'll see that most people don't give a shit about how any particular bar/club/restaurant is affected...they just want to be able to smoke wherever they want

mark: id love someone to poll non smoking service industry workers and proprietors. You know, the people that the zealots are crusading for.

mark: id love someone to poll non smoking service industry workers and proprietors. You know, the people that the zealots are crusading for.

I agree with you...which is why I support DSRs. I don't think any business should have to shut down because of the bylaws if they're willing to compromise in this manner.

but poll ALL the anti-bylaw people...not just non-smokers who work in related industries too...just for comparison purposes

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Originally posted by MarkT I agree with you...which is why I support DSRs. I don't think any business should have to shut down because of the bylaws if they're willing to compromise in this manner. but poll ALL the anti-bylaw people...not just non-smokers who work in related industries too...just for comparison purposes

But this new law is trumpeted at protecting workers. I dont care what 87 year old mathilda has to say about smoking in a nightclub. You know what i mean?

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