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-- another dz1200 or cdj1000mk2
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quote:

Originally posted by alligator my simple statment is that the addition of such features wont' make you a better dj if you still don't know how to beatmatch. therefore unless you know the basis of mixing, and using tt's, or cd players the effects will be more damaging than helping to you. bring in your cued song - mix in the next song... to disaprove with your theory that pioneers are in clubs everywhere, all over where i live denon's 3000 or 5000 are currently used in clubs, why because mostly all the djs that play there know how to beat count and can't mix a song in to save their lives without an addition of flagger, break or whatever else. back to my point, because this is dragging on without any purpose, the effects are useless if you're a shity dj, and if you can mix well without them then they will help you in your set. but that doesn't mean you must buy a cd player with build in features (you can get an efx).

Just jumped back into this thread and had to respond...

Who the hell is going to buy a AU$1500 x 2 setup if they dont know how to beatmix. The arguement that fx and features are useless unless the DJ doesnt know how to beatmix is bit pissweak.

Hands up who here in these forums out of those of you who call themselves "DJ's" dont know how to beatmix??


anyone?


Bueller?


last Chance....


c'mon... we wont laugh...





I'm happy to debate the features, feel, pros and cons of Pio vs Dennon, but dismissing the features on a deck because you are ussuming that DJ's dont know how to beatmix...

dude... WTF???

Its the basic element if knowing how to mix. Its not that fucking hard, and anyone who can tell debate difference between the feel and features of Vinyl, a Pio deck and a Dennon deck would 9 times out of ten be a fairly proficent beatmixer I imagine.

So, yeah enough of the "fx and features are useless cos if you use them your some sort of tourist who cant grasp themost basic element of mixing" bullshit... ok

Lets keep the debate to facts and figures, not pointless conjecture.


=)

[EDIT] doh... just realised this thread is a week old... oh well...

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl =) [EDIT] doh... just realised this thread is a week old... oh well...

i think everyone gave up on this thread, but thanks for adding to it...

there's a reason why the pioneer decks are industry standard, and it's not because of the name...in the end is up to anyone what they like to use when they mix...

quote:

Originally posted by alligator i think everyone gave up on this thread, but thanks for adding to it... there's a reason why the pioneer decks are industry standard, and it's not because of the name...in the end is up to anyone what they like to use when they mix...

The reason they are standard is because Pioneer are part of the illuminati and have a secret agenda with Bill Gates and the Catholic church.

Seriously... if you look at the underside of the CDJ 1000 there is an imprint of the freemason symbol!! Its right there!!

quote:

Originally posted by Tygon Well I figure... if I buy the 800 I can get used to them over time even if they're not as realistic. If a club has 1000s, it'll be an easier adjustment than the other way around. Nah I don't use mp3 CDs... I burn 1 track per CD... which is also a reason that CD Text is useless. Currently my resident club has these CD decks which I've become quite comfortable with. If I can get used to these, Pioneers will be a breeze!

My old residency had those too. It was a real upscale lounge too so I was surprised by their choice in equipment. I hated using them. So much so that I brought my own DZ1200's in and used those from then on.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl The reason they are standard is because Pioneer are part of the illuminati and have a secret agenda with Bill Gates and the Catholic church. Seriously... if you look at the underside of the CDJ 1000 there is an imprint of the freemason symbol!! Its right there!!

but we all love bill gates!

look through the thread, since i've already stated i do like the denon 5000, just i enjoy working with the pioneer a lot more.

quote:

Originally posted by Dirk W. My old residency had those too. It was a real upscale lounge too so I was surprised by their choice in equipment. I hated using them. So much so that I brought my own DZ1200's in and used those from then on.

how are the DZ1200, i loved they way the looked but never got to really enjoy one.

quote:

Originally posted by alligator how are the DZ1200, i loved they way the looked but never got to really enjoy one.

i really love them. i love the way they feel over any other option. my only two complaints are the pitch accuracy which is .05 at +/- 8% (compared to the pioneer's .02 at +/- 6%) and the lack of cd text readability. other than that - i love them. i would still take them over anything else and don't regret the purchase at all.

i've heard very mixed reviews from people. how does the jog wheel feel? what is the response rate (accuracy wise) of the options you have on it.
i guess the accuracy does tend to disapoint, but 0.05% is still pretty good. (i know most of the tt user will jump on me for saying that, but we're not comparing a cd player to a tt).

quote:

Originally posted by alligator there's a reason why the pioneer decks are industry standard, and it's not because of the name...in the end is up to anyone what they like to use when they mix...

Yes, basically it is the name.

The CDJ1000's are used for scratching competitions because they're "industry standard"

No.

The Denon S5000 or The Numark CDX is clearly top for the scratching.

The CDJ 1000 doesn't have the platter for it. People lift up the vinyl and do tricks with faderless scratching...you can do that with the S5000 or CDX.

For regular mixing...the S5000 is basically the same thing as the CDJ's, just a bunch more features that'll spice up your mix (same with numark cdx's). If you can play on the denons or numark cdx's, you can pick up the CDJ1000's in a second.

Hmm...I went to guitar center for the first time when it opened. They had a CDJ1000mk2...of course I had no clue how to mix on it because I don't have one at home. At the time I had traktor only and no real equipment. I picked the 1000's up the FIRST TIME I tried mixing. Retard-Proof.

any cd player that you would buy (at the moment) digitally imitates scratching compared to a tt.

i don't scratch, except every now and then when i'm ask to play some hip hop for some odd fellow that walks in and expect me to play the same song that he's heard on the radio 3 times that day. anyhow i use it sometimes when i just want to change the tempo.

here's an example, since everyone has been on my ass for saying effects don't know a sucker dj. because in the real world not all "dj" know what they're doing. i was working with this community center for a while to develope their entertaiment, and there was another guy that was supposed to be the dj during their nights. tried getting the 800's for the gigs, but he did not approve of them. why? simply because they have no effects, which means you must beat match, and play with your mixer during your set. so we get denon's and he was using the flagger and break buttons insanely. he over used them. he also couldn't beat match to save his own life, let alone realize you can't just cut a song and press play to the cued song.
i've seen this in a couple of places, they have good equipment, but are not trained for the job.

my $0.02 on the topic is that effects won't help you fake that you're a dj.

quote:

Originally posted by alligator any cd player that you would buy (at the moment) digitally imitates scratching compared to a tt. i don't scratch, except every now and then when i'm ask to play some hip hop for some odd fellow that walks in and expect me to play the same song that he's heard on the radio 3 times that day. anyhow i use it sometimes when i just want to change the tempo. here's an example, since everyone has been on my ass for saying effects don't know a sucker dj. because in the real world not all "dj" know what they're doing. i was working with this community center for a while to develope their entertaiment, and there was another guy that was supposed to be the dj during their nights. tried getting the 800's for the gigs, but he did not approve of them. why? simply because they have no effects, which means you must beat match, and play with your mixer during your set. so we get denon's and he was using the flagger and break buttons insanely. he over used them. he also couldn't beat match to save his own life, let alone realize you can't just cut a song and press play to the cued song. i've seen this in a couple of places, they have good equipment, but are not trained for the job. my $0.02 on the topic is that effects won't help you fake that you're a dj.

And whats some guy who absolutly knows nothing about how to beatmatch...have to do with this thread?

Why's it matter if he couldn't beatmatch? I would use EFX if I had good EFX to play with. I LOVE the CDJ 200's...if they had scratching, they would be on my desk right now. The Cue button how fast it is...the efx...omgosh, I love it.

The CDJ 1000's wouldn't have anything for him to play on...he would be FORCED to beatmatch and it would sound like balls all the way through with straight up music. At least with the denons you can do something about it.

Infact, I could do a whole mix on the denons and piss all over your 2 CDJ1000's you bought for $2500 when I bought one DenonS5000 brand new on ebay for $650

woo hoo... this thread never dies.

The Dennons do EXACTLY the same things as the pioneers aside from stop playback when you push down on the platter. The also have a waveform readout which admittedly the Dennons dont. Personally I find it completely useless ... but its there...

And just because the Dennons have more features than the Pios... that makes them LESS of a usable turntable because you ASSUME that anyone who prefers having access to these features DOESNT know how to beatmatch?

Hmm... yeah... thats logic...


So by the same token you would assume DJ shadow or DJ Q-bert dont know how to beatmatch because they prefers turntablism to straight out beatmatching... ??!?

besides the simple fact that i stated "
effects don't help you fake your talents " i never said everyone who preffers a more effected rich cd players doesn't know how to dj...it is left to each person individually to chose their own medium to express himself. each player has some features that make it unique.

the choice between these do do not mean anything, but if you chose one player with tons of features because you have not grasped the technique it will not help you.

turntabalism, how did that get invovled in this? i have great respect for people who practice turntabalism, but what they do is not the same

quote:

Originally posted by alligator besides the simple fact that i stated " ...it is left to each person individually to chose their own medium to express himself. each player has some features that make it unique.

I think that is an educated and well balanced statement and sums it up nicely. DJing is about expression. If simple yet solid beatmixing is what does it for you, then fair enough. Pioneer is the one to choose. Simple, straight forward and good at what they do.

quote:

Originally posted by alligator the choice between these do do not mean anything, but if you chose one player with tons of features because you have not grasped the technique it will not help you.

Agreed. Beatmixing is the basis of mixing dance music. I can-not see how one would mix trance, techno, house or DnB without having a solid grasp of it. And infact, this furthers my point, I would say that to utilise fx within a set, you need to be VERY quick with the beatmatching. For the first 6 months, I used hardly any of the the features on the DNS5000s. Its only now after a lot of practice am I seeing the potential of these decks to do very cool and expressive stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by alligator turntabalism, how did that get invovled in this? i have great respect for people who practice turntabalism, but what they do is not the same

Because I brought it up Its not exaclty the same, but its relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Just because someone doesnt mix their whole set A to B to C beatmixed seamlessly, doesnt mean you can assume they dont know how to beatmix. Trance DJs seems to be obsessed with beatmixing and while thats all good and well, theres a whole other world of options available that are only limited by your creativity.

OK, peace now...

If we skip the part "i owe them so they're the most bestest"

I'm looking for a good pair of cd-players/doubledeck cd-player for homeuse. I don't need no advanced fx buttons (i can buy an external efx unit for that), i don't need scratching plate (i have 3 sl12xx tts for that), what i need is relyable unit(s) which won't break in a year or two, something good for beatmatching and basic homeuse. So what would you suggest?
2x cdj-200
2x cdj-800
2x cdj-1000
2x dn-s3000
2x dn-s5000
dn-d6000
dn-d9000
cmx-3000
2xdnz1200
and why? Money isn't the issue relyability is.

I normally mix hard dance (hardstyle, hardtrance, hardhouse, hardnrg, freeform, hardtechno, schranz, acid techno) with tts, but recently i've bought several (pogressive/)trance cds just for alternation and it would be really nice to be able to mix them aswell.

if money isn't an issue get 2 cdj 1000s

Double units are a bit cramped to use.

I'd say the CDJ-200's are what you want. They are very accurate with .02% pitch resolution, no scratching or built-in effects, and they are nicely priced.

quote:

Originally posted by Specimen303 If we skip the part "i owe them so they're the most bestest" I'm looking for a good pair of cd-players/doubledeck cd-player for homeuse. I don't need no advanced fx buttons (i can buy an external efx unit for that), i don't need scratching plate (i have 3 sl12xx tts for that), what i need is relyable unit(s) which won't break in a year or two, something good for beatmatching and basic homeuse. So what would you suggest? 2x cdj-200 2x cdj-800 2x cdj-1000 2x dn-s3000 2x dn-s5000 dn-d6000 dn-d9000 cmx-3000 2xdnz1200 and why? Money isn't the issue relyability is. I normally mix hard dance (hardstyle, hardtrance, hardhouse, hardnrg, freeform, hardtechno, schranz, acid techno) with tts, but recently i've bought several (pogressive/)trance cds just for alternation and it would be really nice to be able to mix them aswell.

quote:

Originally posted by Tenshi if money isn't an issue get 2 cdj 1000s

Money is ALWAYS an issue. Why spend all that extra cash on something you won't use? Buy more music

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Because I brought it up Its not exaclty the same, but its relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Just because someone doesnt mix their whole set A to B to C beatmixed seamlessly, doesnt mean you can assume they dont know how to beatmix. Trance DJs seems to be obsessed with beatmixing and while thats all good and well, theres a whole other world of options available that are only limited by your creativity. OK, peace now...

depends on your creativity...

there are as many different types of mixing as there are dj's, as each one of us does it his own way. yes you learn by watching others, but you improve yourself as you see fit. different types of music do ask for different styles...you are totally right in trance the basis is beatmatching...

quote:

Originally posted by Specimen303 If we skip the part "i owe them so they're the most bestest" I'm looking for a good pair of cd-players/doubledeck cd-player for homeuse. I don't need no advanced fx buttons (i can buy an external efx unit for that), i don't need scratching plate (i have 3 sl12xx tts for that), what i need is relyable unit(s) which won't break in a year or two, something good for beatmatching and basic homeuse. So what would you suggest? 2x cdj-200 2x cdj-800 2x cdj-1000 2x dn-s3000 2x dn-s5000 dn-d6000 dn-d9000 cmx-3000 2xdnz1200 and why? Money isn't the issue relyability is. I normally mix hard dance (hardstyle, hardtrance, hardhouse, hardnrg, freeform, hardtechno, schranz, acid techno) with tts, but recently i've bought several (pogressive/)trance cds just for alternation and it would be really nice to be able to mix them aswell.

if you like a double deck then so be it, but i think most of the ta's would agree that if you can afford get to separat players. makes life so much easier
second: if you can afford them then the decision should be easy either cdj 1000mkII or denon 5000. yes as this whole thread was about debating which player is better. i believe that the denon 5000 is about $400 less expensive (here in canada) for a brand new one.
if you can't afford this, then try the cdj 800. similar model, will definetly do the job. i think either model will be reliable enough to suit your needs.

as an addition, since you're obviously used to tt's, then the pioneer models will be a great addition. the vinyl option will make that transition easier (yes i know the denon's have it, but he did mention he doesn't care for effects on the players). the small jog wheels on the dual players are not as accurate (in my opinion) and i always have a bit of trouble adjusting if that's all i have available.

hope this helps

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Double units are a bit cramped to use. I'd say the CDJ-200's are what you want. They are very accurate with .02% pitch resolution, no scratching or built-in effects, and they are nicely priced.

I'd reccomend those also. Very good decks. Only 2 built in EFX (Nicely chosen which ones too), the beat cutter, cue, .02% pitch resolution. It's basically a CDJ 1000 without 3 hotcues and scratching. Very much cheaper, very nice deck for pure beatmatching.

I'm not sure what the big debate is about... most mixers available on the market today have a wide variety of effects. It's only since digital media has become more accepted that effects were incorporated into the CD Deck... Most young DJs choose CDs as their primary media because it's much more cost efficient... which means that perhaps they can go cheaper on a mixer too (which won't include the effects I'm referring to).

Also, I think you guys are harping on the whole effects issue way too much... mixing skill aside, effects are FAR TOO OVERUSED today... when I listen to demos I get sick of hearing the same flanger/modulation/delay used in a majority of the transitions... as it was said before, there's more recognition for a DJ that can be creative without the use of these stereotypical effects. BE CREATIVE PEOPLE... BE UNIQUE... effects are pure cheese and don't do much for your mixes especially when you play in clubs and even more so in your demos!

quote:

Originally posted by Specimen303 If we skip the part "i owe them so they're the most bestest" I'm looking for a good pair of cd-players/doubledeck cd-player for homeuse. I don't need no advanced fx buttons (i can buy an external efx unit for that), i don't need scratching plate (i have 3 sl12xx tts for that), what i need is relyable unit(s) which won't break in a year or two, something good for beatmatching and basic homeuse. So what would you suggest? 2x cdj-200 2x cdj-800 2x cdj-1000 2x dn-s3000 2x dn-s5000 dn-d6000 dn-d9000 cmx-3000 2xdnz1200 and why? Money isn't the issue relyability is. I normally mix hard dance (hardstyle, hardtrance, hardhouse, hardnrg, freeform, hardtechno, schranz, acid techno) with tts, but recently i've bought several (pogressive/)trance cds just for alternation and it would be really nice to be able to mix them aswell.

You really need to do the research and decide which features you want on a deck and purchase based on those. Do you want a moving platter? How many loop points do you want? Are you looking for samplers or fx on board or are you planning to get an external unit later?

Personally I find the ability to sample and do spinbacks advantageous, so the Dennons were an obvious choice for me. Up to you though what you want in a deck.

Other than that I think everything has been stated in this thread already. Most decks do pretty much the same thing and all the ones you've listed are pro quality and arnt likely to need servicing for quite a few years.

I would avoid getting a double player. They dont feel as nice as two separate decks and if your playing at home for enjoyment only, its nice to be able to walk up to your decks and mixer, set up in your bedroom and simply have the space to have some fun.


Good luck with your purchase, let us know what you end up getting

=)

Wow I started this thread a while ago and it blew up! hehe... well here is something to fuel the fire. bought 2 cdj1000mk2's, had a gig 4 days later...everything going fine until about 3 hours in my set. went to put a cd in one of the pioneer's and bam, shuts off. i turn it back on and the display is all corrupt. so there you have it, a 4 day old unit just died on me. now there was some power surge issues earlier and I'm wondering if this may have contributed to this but I was confident the surge protector I had on the booth was enough. anyway, i'm awaiting my replacement, should have it this week.

quote:

Originally posted by WeasiL Wow I started this thread a while ago and it blew up! hehe... well here is something to fuel the fire. bought 2 cdj1000mk2's, had a gig 4 days later...everything going fine until about 3 hours in my set. went to put a cd in one of the pioneer's and bam, shuts off. i turn it back on and the display is all corrupt. so there you have it, a 4 day old unit just died on me. now there was some power surge issues earlier and I'm wondering if this may have contributed to this but I was confident the surge protector I had on the booth was enough. anyway, i'm awaiting my replacement, should have it this week.

Let me guess, you walked into the store, looked at the CDJ 1000's, bought them. Correct?

Pioneer dying when you put a CD in

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