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-- terror in london
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Originally posted by Yoepus Right, I don't think there is a better term to describe these people then simply savages. They exploit the fundamental concensus free societies have made to run governments and lives in peace and respect to push a political agenda. Pathetic. Giving these terrorist any justifcation for their grievance would be equivlant to justifying a guy who kills 100 people in Spain because they were about to allow gay marriage and he disagrees with the state of Spain and the voters who elected their new president who allowed this law to pass. You'd never hear that, why hear it about islamo-facism? How can anybody be an apologist for this???? What happened in London is just a sad waste of life. What did they expect to achieve? To move one of the greatest nations this earth has ever seen by harrasing its citizen in one of the most pathetic attacks witnessed? A nation that withstood WWI, WWII, and the IRA, is going to be moved by this?? Come on.

Are you telling me they won't be?!?!??!?! WHAT?!?!?! Un-fucking-believable!

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange 3. the attacks were not against innocent civilians. the english just re-elected tony blair. they had a chance to throw him out but they didn't. )

Not even the tumbleweed wants to reply to that. If you knew anything about the UK you'd know blair is probably the lesser of 2 evils (the conservative party appealing only to stuck up rich ****s who want tax cuts) Blair genuinely cares for this country, he nearly had tears in his eyes when giving the speech.

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Originally posted by Yoepus Bah, post-whore! Got in 1 sec before me. Oh well, same analogy but mines was more eloquent Amazing how great minds thing alike eh?

Haha! mine is a bit raw, got some aggression going down! but I've had a couple of scares today with this with family, friends and work colleagues who live in or have visited London today, so I'm quite wound up a bit.

Hopefully though everyone will pull togther and get through this, it's not every countries fault who faces islamic terrorism that the enemy is faceless coward.

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Originally posted by Yoepus To move one of the greatest nations this earth has ever seen by harrasing its citizen in one of the most pathetic attacks witnessed? A nation that withstood IRA, is going to be moved by this??

Of course they will be moved, do you think they will just go on like normal or something?

The IRA's tactics were extremely successful. The worst thing is there nearly impossible to stop. If these groups wanted to bomb london regularly they could do it easily. People of london realise this. I cant see people jumping at the chance of traveling on the train or bus for a long time.

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Originally posted by Q5echo indescriminate mass murder.

Vietnam. The Iraq Invasion.

Edit: You fucking hypocrite, you support the same indiscriminate mass murder.

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Originally posted by Michael19 Of course they will be moved, do you think they will just go on like normal or something?

Yes basically, either that are more anit-islamofacist.

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The IRA's tactics were extremely successful.

I'm sorry it might just be me but I coulda swore Northern Ireland is still in the Kingdom.

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The worst thing is there nearly impossible to stop. If these groups wanted to bomb london regularly they could do it easily. People of london realise this. I cant see people jumping at the chance of traveling on the train or bus for a long time.

The fact that this is the first time that they have been sucessful in bombing London should attest to the fact that it is not as easy as it seems. It is defintely not the first time they have tried to do it, nor do I believe will it be the last one unfortunately.

But so what? 40-50 killed, not even a thousand killed will stop the country! It won't make the UK disappear off this earth and fall into ruin. The UK is a strong nation, you faced much, much worse.

The terrorist will be very sorry for what they have done to you when all is said and done.

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange 2. the attacks were not 'indiscriminate'. see above.

Indiscriminate means they dont care who they kill they just want to kill...

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3. the attacks were not against innocent civilians. the english just re-elected tony blair. they had a chance to throw him out but they didn't.

Do you know how many people get the chance to vote for Tony Blair in the UK? The only people who get to vote for Tony Blair live in his constituency. I vote Labour but I dont get to vote for Tony Blair. Funnily enuf many Labour MPs voted against the war (including the one I voted for IIRC)

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i feel sorry for the people that lost loved ones and the injured, but not the nation (if that's at all possible.)

I feel sorry for your mum and dad not knowing what a condom is

Fuck off cun.t

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Originally posted by Michael19 Of course they will be moved, do you think they will just go on like normal or something? The IRA's tactics were extremely successful. The worst thing is there nearly impossible to stop. If these groups wanted to bomb london regularly they could do it easily. People of london realise this. I cant see people jumping at the chance of traveling on the train or bus for a long time.

I honestly think people will get up tomoz and go about their lives as normal. London was bombed regularly by the IRA they're used to it. Maybe some people wont use public transport for a while but I suspect the vast majority will get on with it like nothing has happened (and I dont mean that like they dont care or anything, its just what the British are like)

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Originally posted by George Smiley I honestly think people will get up tomoz and go about their lives as normal. London was bombed regularly by the IRA they're used to it. Maybe some people wont use public transport for a while but I suspect the vast majority will get on with it like nothing has happened (and I dont mean that like they dont care or anything, its just what the British are like)

The British have balls. (and I mean that in a good way)

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Vietnam. The Iraq Invasion. Edit: You fucking hypocrite, you support the same indiscriminate mass murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
here's a history lesson for ya there little guy. college hasn't done much for you're respect for history, or lack thereof. take from it what you will.

i will not get into Vietnam and the mistakes made, here.

nor will i ask you to call a random Iraqi National Guardsman or storeowner or stock broker and find out what he thinks about standing up his own country. not here. not now.

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Originally posted by Q5echo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot here's a history lesson for ya there little guy. college hasn't done much for you're respect for history, or lack thereof. take from it what you will. i will not get into Vietnam and the mistakes made, here. nor will i ask you to call a random Iraqi National Guardsman or storeowner or stock broker and find out what he thinks about standing up his own country. not here. not now.

One last response to your response. We've had similar confrontations on this forum in the past (and always in circles). As I don't want to hijack this thread, I suggest we knock it off for now.

You really are going overboard Shaolin, parralleling acts as seen today with American, British invasion of Iraq, and Americans fighting in Vietnam. It's sick and I'm ashamed to say we are citizens of the same country.

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Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sorry it might just be me but I coulda swore Northern Ireland is still in the Kingdom.

Yes it's still part of the UK things are a lot peacefull now, however the IRA have been sucessfull, I don't agree with the tactic's they have employed in the past, I know for certain people have been scared shitless of them in past. The situation in Eire & Northern Ireland is a total different story all togther, the governments both in the Uk & Eire both have cracked down on the IRA, it's not like they have the whole west to operate in.

Al Qaida on the otherhand are a faceless enemy, they could come from one of about 30 countries, they could be taking a holiday, be an asylum seeker, be a real immagrant, or they could actually be born and raised in the UK. Their not an army or a miltary organisation that is something I know for sure.


Thing is though with Northern Ireland it's all died down a lot, about from that Macartney guy who died and the banking heist.

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Originally posted by kush paintings You really are going overboard Shaolin, parralleling acts as seen today with American, British invasion of Iraq, and Americans fighting in Vietnam. It's sick and I'm ashamed to say we are citizens of the same country.

Ok. You're going to have to elaborate on that one. How am I going overboard?

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan Al Qaida on the otherhand are a faceless enemy, they could come from one of about 30 countries, they could be taking a holiday, be an asylum seeker, be a real immagrant, or they could actually be born and raised in the UK. Their not an army or a miltary organisation that is something I know for sure.

They're even more dangerous than that as they are not actually "they"!

IIRC, none of the attacks that followed 9/11 have been proved to be actual al-Qaida attacks. All of them were "linked" to al-Qaida but carried out by separate individual groups. Al-Qaida didn't even come up with the plan to do 9/11, they just provided the funds and personel.

"Al-Qaida" is an ideology, which is why the groups that carried out the attacks often claim to be doing it in the name of al-Qaida. When the government says "linked to al-Qaida" that could mean anything and could simply mean they adhere to the same ideology. Afghanistan was a good place to start and that got rid of the training camps that a lot of these groups had gone to. But thats the problem. It was a shit load of individual groups that went to these camps to get training - all with their own aims and ideas. That is something you never here the governments say cos they need a 'James Bond-style' baddy to focus our attention on. The aim of these groups and al-Qaida is not, as we are told, the destruction of western democracies and our way of life but the overthrow of Middle Easter governments and to replace them with Islamic theocracies. That probably means a great deal of them have no intention of attacking the West. Unfortunately, as we have seen today and in Madrid, there are a significant number who do want to do that and follow in al-Qaida's footsteps. But it is in the governments interests to group them all together and say they all want to destroy our way of life. By grouping them all together I feel that we are making a mistake and not understanding (or at least what they tell us makes them look like they do not understand) the true nature of what is known as al-Qaida is an extremely dangerous mistake...

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Originally posted by George Smiley The aim of these groups and al-Qaida is not, as we are told, the destruction of western democracies and our way of life but the overthrow of Middle Easter governments and to replace them with Islamic theocracies.

I guess Israel is not part of the "western democracies" you speak about then huh?


Or are they simply an exception to this theory for some X reason or another?

I believe some of u are arguing over yet to prove facts. Yes there is a "report" that states that the al qaida group is taking responsibility for the acts, but that is yet to be proved. And personally i am still not convinced that 9/11 was also masterminded by al qaida.
I dont agree with these types of actions, but after reading up on the 9/11 attacks, and the so call "Project Northwood", which i do not know if the validity of has been proved, i wouldnt be amazed if this was, note the word, orchastrated(sp?) not executed, by a government or government agency instead of a terrorist attack as PR move for lack of better definition.

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Originally posted by venomX I believe some of u are arguing over yet to prove facts. Yes there is a "report" that states that the al qaida group is taking responsibility for the acts, but that is yet to be proved. And personally i am still not convinced that 9/11 was also masterminded by al qaida. I dont agree with these types of actions, but after reading up on the 9/11 attacks, and the so call "Project Northwood", which i do not know if the validity of has been proved, i wouldnt be amazed if this was, note the word, orchastrated(sp?) not executed, by a government or government agency instead of a terrorist attack as PR move for lack of better definition.

sounds like you suffer from asymetrical skepticism. probably brought on by acute ideological myopia combined, in part, with your mild fear of the unknown.

...or you may have syphilis. there's no telling, really.

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Originally posted by Q5echo ...or you may have syphilis. there's no telling, really.

that might more be it for him. Shit I hate Bush but damn even I wouldn't propose a government orchestration. Good griefs.

I've arrived at the conclusion that no matter what scums like these do there will be those who apologize and rationalize such acts because they are driven with so much hatred of the "imperialists" I was pissed as fuck about Iraq, but I'll be damned if this act could be justified on such grounds. Takes a sub human to appreciate such behavior of those who prostitute a religion to murder and maim in a democratic society, whose people and freedoms they exploit for as one politician remarked an evil means to an evil ends.

Firstly I offer my Condolence's for the families of the innocent dead who have lost there lives in this Terrorist Attack & those responsible receive the correct justice.

As an English citizen, I could see this attack happening ever since we joined forces with the US to fight the Illegal War in Iraq, Yes Illegal as the basis of us going to war was " The Threat of Nuclear War " which turns out to be a complete Lie but that's a complete different issue which has been raised many times before. I Believe in Religion and I believe in Freedom also I believe in Innocence which is currently the main target for terrorist to use as a weapon. I imagine that Terror is never really seen in England due to its well structured governments and law agencies. I imagine 99.9% of English people have never seen a bomb explode in there life's or have ever been in real danger, If it turn this statement round to Iraq then its a complete different story I imagine every Iraq citizen has seen bombs, and witness violence and brutal terrorism everyday of there life's. If a bomb explodes in Iraq it wont reach the local headlines and I cant imagine foreign citizens concerned unless a UK/USA troops died. When the London attack happened yesterday it was Global news in Minutes and I can imagine there will be photos, stories all over the world in newspapers, websites and of course television, The groups responsible will see this as a great victory as Innocence as before quoted has been sacrificed to symbolise these attacks. I do believe there will be arrest's made for this attack but I have to say I don't think this is the last of Al Queda.

Or you could have seen this coming as well with the fact that Abu Hamzah and all these radical Islamic clerics have a comfort zone in London for years to preach their filth on British soil about death to this and death to that, and what a great man bin Laden is, etc. Imagine listening to weekly prayers from these individuals. These radical clerics are intolerant and it's about time people see them for what they are.

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Originally posted by Yoepus I guess Israel is not part of the "western democracies" you speak about then huh? Or are they simply an exception to this theory for some X reason or another?

Well Israel can also come under "Middle Easter government"

And yes Israel is an exception - whether you like it or not - it is a western democracy but it is also special for the reason I just said - it is in the heart of the Middle East and is seen by Islamists as Muslim land. The 'West' ie N America and Europe are not Muslim land and are not considered as such (I dunno maybe there is some nostalgic old Mullah remenicing over the good ol' days when they rules Spain but I doubt it!)

Also al-Qaida are not part of the Intifada as far as I know

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange 3. the attacks were not against innocent civilians. the english just re-elected tony blair. they had a chance to throw him out but they didn't.

That's pretty scary. You're basically saying that since the free democracy of the UK didn't decide to vote out a PM that went against the wishes of the terrorist world, it's okay for those citizens to be bombed? So we should modify our voting practices to make sure they are in accord with what the terrorist community wants? And if the citizens of a country don't vote in favor of terrorists, they are no longer "innocent," and deserving of retaliation? I really hope that's not what you meant.

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Originally posted by Ian^ Blair genuinely cares for this country, he nearly had tears in his eyes when giving the speech.

A lot of people would kill for a leader like that. In spite of his problems in Britain, I have the utmost respect for Tony Blair. He was stuck between a rock (the US) and a hard place (the EU) with Iraq, but he still remains devoted to things that others nations or leaders won't. Like the good of his people. Internationally, namely what is being discussed at this year's G8. I feel sick that his international legacy that he could have carved out at this summit may be ruined. Sick not only for him, but for the good he has tried to do.

This was not just an attack against London. It was an attack against country and culture. It was an attack on the West and on Africa. It was an attack on the environment. It was an attack on prosperity. It was an attack on the concept of helping thy neighbor and not fearing him.

if a man trespasses onto his neighbor's house and property, don't be surprised if that neighbor defends himself.

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