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-- Reasons not to pay for music
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quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij What's the difference? It costs me money and effort and hardware to make my product just like BMW does.

So we're going to stuff the pockets of some random guy who downloaded Reason off some warez site to make the next ASOT hit? No thanks.

Huh? That's the weirdest reason for free download i have heard so far!
But what if he does have legal license?

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij Huh? That's the weirdest reason for free download i have heard so far! But what if he does have legal license?

You're missing my point. We don't know if a person actually spent time, effort and money to make a track, so your argument doesn't cut it.

Ah okay I missed that clearly!
But what about the guys who buy their gear and don't use warez for producing?

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij But what about the guys who buy their gear and don't use warez for producing?

And how do we know that? And what about those that do not?

hey Benno...thanks for stopping by...


here is my opinion on this whole thing...


personally of course i've used illegal peer 2 peer exchange in the past, i think most of us have. however, i fall into that category of people that use it to preview and search for what i want to buy. and actually...i've grown out of that habit entirely...i can't remember the last time i downloaded a tune, literally probably over a year and a half ago. i think the main reason for that was because i found it so much more conveinent to listen to samples of tunes at online record shops ala juno etc. so that's how i find tunes these days...much better than peer 2 peer because i literally can sample and listen to just about everything that is ever released instead of what is popular with the majority of people and that suits my purposes great.

as far as the topic of legal mp3s and the like. i've always held a position against it, but who knows how i'll feel in the future. i guess i've always taken the attitude that i like to buy something tangible and of course i am just a record collector. i think that also has a lot to do with my thoughts on djing. am i against pros like yourself or sasha or ritchie hawtin or zabiela or anyother successful dj using software programs like ableton or final scratch? no...not at all, i've recently seen sasha and zabiela among others and they were great shows, but i kind of feel that someone starting out should learn to dj with vinyl. and that's really just my personal preference because i think there is something to that...sort of once you know how to dj with traditional means, well, you can kind of do what you want...but like i said that's just more a personal opinion...

anyway...thanks for stopping by the boards. its good to get some professional opinions on the subject...

That's an argument like: hey i can steal that X5, because the owner might be a thief too.

I try to do the right thing, what others do is their business.

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij That's an argument like: hey i can steal that X5, because the owner might be a thief too.

Actually, it's more like "why should I give that guy my money when he has done nothing to deserve it?"

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Actually, it's more like "why should I give that guy my money when he has done nothing to deserve it?"

If you enjoy it you apparently like what he does! So he IS doing something right IMO. And how much time he spent doesn't interest me much. If Bono write's a good song in 5 minutes, I'll praise him even more!

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij If you enjoy it you apparently like what he does!

Who says I am?

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Who says I am?

Okay let me rephrase: Reasons not to pay for music you like

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij What's the difference? It costs me money and effort and hardware to make my product just like BMW does.

It costs you money and effort to create the original. The rest is a process of copying. However with cars the cost is multiplied by the ammount of units being produced. So to follow your analogy, if you could find a guy on the street who has a BMW, and somehow copy and paste that car without using any new materials or effort, considering you wouldn't have had the money to buy your own straight from the manifacturer, then you're not taking anything from them. If you were going to buy one and decided to copy one instead, then you're taking potential profit, but not in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij Okay let me rephrase: Reasons not to pay for music you like

Personally I see no reason for that either. If I like music, I buy it. But the posts in this thread so far (Ishkur's post to name one) should be enough of a clue of why things aren't that cut and dry. And I think a vast amount of the business needs to realize the positive promotional effect (illegal) downloading has, and instead of trying to combat it (which is futile), try to use it to their advantage.

i think it's pretty stupid to try and argue this point. i think we all know it's wrong...it really just comes down to whether or not you care. trying to justify it with arguments like "well i don't like it" or "the corporation gets all the profit" don't really seem to valid in my opinion. i mean i think it comes down to something if i may quote a little jane's addiction here:

"well its just a simple fact...when i want something man i don't wanna pay crap!"

hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Who says I am?

you keep contradicting yourself..

if u dont enjoy it then u need not buy it or download it illegally. why would u download something u dont like?

if u like something, then the artist has done something right by producing it. if they have downloaded their software illegally but they still make good music then the only people who should care are the manufacturers of the software who loose millions because of pirating. if like it then buy it, if u cant find it anywhere to buy then download it, i dont really give a fuck, i would probably do that if i couldnt find a track to download or buy legally. stop whining.

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian It costs you money and effort to create the original. The rest is a process of copying. However with cars the cost is multiplied by the ammount of units being produced. So to follow your analogy, if you could find a guy on the street who has a BMW, and somehow copy and paste that car without using any new materials or effort, considering you wouldn't have had the money to buy your own straight from the manifacturer, then you're not taking anything from them. If you were going to buy one and decided to copy one instead, then you're taking potential profit, but not in this case.

So BMW sold one car less right? And they didn't gave you permission right?

But i get your point, but i think thats only a benefit for end users.
If i ask u2 to play at my birthday party it will cost me loads, if we do it in a stadium and share the concert and divide the costs everybody is happy.

This applies to music too. The price is a divided one, or did you really think making a tune costs only 1 dollar if i would calculate all the costs for a producer including say a minimum salery?

Now you don't buy one BMW, but a lot of people buy a fraction of the BMW but get the whole package!

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Personally I see no reason for that either. If I like music, I buy it. But the posts in this thread so far (Ishkur's post to name one) should be enough of a clue of why things aren't that cut and dry. And I think a vast amount of the business needs to realize the positive promotional effect (illegal) downloading has, and instead of trying to combat it (which is futile), try to use it to their advantage.

that post makes alot more sense than ur last ones

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij So BMW sold one car less right? And they didn't gave you permission right? But i get your point, but i think thats only a benefit for end users. If i ask u2 to play at my birthday party it will cost me loads, if we do it in a stadium and share the concert and divide the costs everybody is happy. This applies to music too. The price is a divided one, or did you really think making a tune costs only 1 dollar if i would calculate all the costs for a producer including say a minimum salery? Now you don't buy one BMW, but a lot of people buy a fraction of the BMW but get the whole package!

yeah �30,000 wont get u a custom designed one off exclusive car from bmw, itll get you one of millions of identical cars. a bmw is not �30,000 worth of material! the money goes to the designers, production costs, etc etc etc.. just like with music.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle you keep contradicting yourself.. if u dont enjoy it then u need not buy it or download it illegally. why would u download something u dont like?

Because downloading something is a good way to find out whether I like it or not. Surely that is blatantly obvious?

Some artists are going the "Weed" route if you have heard of that crazy project.

This is what I want to see happening. Direct music purchase from the artist him/herself. Some posts so far have pointed out that the middle man blows. Why not start encourging this system or a system like it.

http://www.weedshare.com/

quote:

Lifted from weedshare.com PLAY complete songs up to 3 times free BUY your first Weed files with a free $5 SHARE Weed files and earn money

It's a very good concept. And last time I checked however it was WMA only. However, artists can weedify their files if they get the right paper work and can essentialy become their own label. Promoting their music across the web, AND everytime you buy their song, you have partial rights to it as well. So like the tagline says you could distribute the artists song you like like MAD and actually make some money if people buy it.

That to me seems like the future. We all know file sharing is never going to go away. And many people are screaming back and forth "IT'S ILLEGAL IT'S COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT" or "IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THE CORPERATIONY CORPORATIONS ARE TAKING MOST OF THE MONEY"

I'm frustrated by that kind of bickering, mainly because it reminds me of some dumb classmates of mine back in highschool who did the "I don't download music" as a satus statement, and probably downloaded anyway, or couldn't figure out how.

God. If someone says "It's just wrong!" or "Durr.. corporations!" again, I will just slap them. Virtually of course :P

benno...what do you think about this?


i've argued on here before that record labels are becoming in a way obselete. i mean other than promotional value, they have no real significance. don't you think aritsts such as yourself could just as easily sell legal mp3 downloads from say an artist website than through a label? sure it might take a lot of initial start up, but once it was running it wouldn't be hard to update and maintain. then you could contract with sites such as beatport on your own if you wanted to allow people to download from those sites as well...so really why the need for the middle man anymore? you would get more of the profit that you deserve and people would feel more like they are supporting the artist and not just some corporation...

EDM artists/djs main source of income is NOT cds or vinyls, their main source of income is gigs = clubs, festivals. I asked Judge Jules one time on his website and that's what he answered.

quote:

Originally posted by eltomas EDM artists/djs main source of income is NOT cds or vinyls, their main source of income is gigs = clubs, festivals. I asked Judge Jules one time on his website and that's what he answered.

not all producers dj or perform...

anyway im bored now. at the end of the day its illegal, so unless u really have to then dont do it. alot of people think that murder is justified in certain cases, but its illegal so people dont tend to do it. its not up to you guys to decide whether or not downloading copyright music is ok or not, so just accept it and get on with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Because downloading something is a good way to find out whether I like it or not. Surely that is blatantly obvious?

u dont have to download illegally to find out if u like something, any decent online record store will have samples

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