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-- What song has had the most detrimental effect on trance & electronic music?
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Originally posted by DJ Cinos Isn't it weird that something so good has a negative impact? All the copies it spawned... eurgh...

Yeah, that's the odd part. Children itself isn't that bad (though it's not especially great, either); the trend it accidentally spawned is what brought such misery.

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Did this one get popular enough to have any impact? I like it though.

Well, in itself, no. But along with tracks like Oceanlab - Satellite, it was a symbol for the trend in 2003 that made shit vocals acceptable in Dutch trance.

Until late 2002 epic trance had held itself somewhat separate from vocal eurotrance like Alice Deejay and Ian van Dahl. There was some crossover, but it was meant for different audiences. Epic trance DJs played the original Synesthesia, pop radio stations played the vocal mix. You never heard the original on radio, and you never heard the vocal in headliner playlists.

Burned With Desire and Satellite finally broke down that barrier, making the epic trance "mainstream" the same as radio play. Although the commercialization of trance had been well underway for years, Burned With Desire represented the final chapter.

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Originally posted by DJ Intrigue Markus Schulz pres. Elevation - Clear Blue

Macschulz indeed

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Originally posted by WirelessEyes 'Anacrutity ... Negative.....' remember that song? Sasha - Xpander BT - Dreaming & Flaming June All I can think of for now

Your saying these tracks ruined trance??


Dude you have got me kidding me.

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Originally posted by PETRAN A BIG +1 to your statements mate!!! True, synthplay and quality melodies is the only thing that matters, who cares about blips and booms anyway! If you feel that nowadays "trance" doesn't musically "covers" you or is not doing it for you anymore, perhaps... maybe its time to move away from EDM and start searching a bit for more melodic styles in general. Now im sure that there would be a lot of stuff you could like if you want energetic and powerfull emotional synth-lines so... why not try the following album: M83-"Before The Dawn Heals Us". Its an album under the label "post-rock/experimental" but for me its much more than that!It has collosal reverbed quitar lines and synths alltogether and generally it is quite spacey, trippy and emotional. They have described as a cross between a shoegazer rock group called my bloody valentine and ulrich schnauss. Actually, it is like a more energetic and artistic ulrich schnauss. If you haven't heard of the later artist than same on you! Its almost like layered and complicated trance with no 4/4 rhythms. Ulrich schnauss is generally known to create a quite beautifull melodic "big room ambient" music.Try the following albums: Ulrich Schnauss- "Far-Away Trains Passing-By" Ulrich Schnauss- "A Strangely Isolated Place" Because i've mentioned the label "post-rock before, well... its generally a quite strange-but-good type of rock which actually doesn't sound at all like...rock! Well yes it's played with quitars and yes it has energetic drum play blah blah blah but its deadly melodic (almost ambient sometimes)its very "orchestrated"(layered, symphonic) and almost always voiceless(they don't sing!). Typical examples are: Godspeed You Black Emperor!-" Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven" (Loooong complicated symphonic tunes) Mogwai- "Happy Songs For Happy People" (Quite good) Explosions In The Sky- "The Earth Is Not A Cold Dead Place" (almost ambient played with quitars BUT with energetic dramatic crescendos) although , a very very strange band that has made a large impression on arty circles lately its a band from iceland called Sigur Ros. Very very strange music. Typical resposes after listening can be as follows "This is boring and strange crap" or "This is angelic music made by non-human beings!" Try listening to samples in amazon or their website: www.Sigur-ros.is Their latest album "Takk" is simply an outstanding piece of art in my opinion although their previous efforts "( )" and "Ageatis Byrjun" are also good. Because we mentioned a lot of rock bands and abandoned synth lines well, why not try the grandfothers of trance? Im talking about Vangelis, Jean Michael Jarre and Klaus Schulze! They have Big symphonic synth-lines and romantic melodies as good trance is supposed to have: Here are some reccomendations: Vangelis: "Opera Sauvage" (My all time favorite synth-album!) Vangelis: "Blade Runner OST" (An absolute must. Contains Blade Runner end-titles anthem!) Vangelis: "Voices" Vangelis" "Direct" (A very good synth-album") Vangelis: "Antarktis OST" (another good synthy soundtrack) and of course the forst two trance albums made in the 70s! Vangelis: "Albeido 0.39" and "Spiral" Of course Jarre's work Jean Michael Jarre: "Oxygene", "Equinoxe"(His best album in my opinion), "Rendezvouz", "Magnetic Fields". They all contain energetic synth-play! If you want to explore minimalistic powerfull melodic music (trance is like that you know. ) why not go further and explore 20th century minimalistic symphonic (classical) music that started it all! Steve Reich actually( a famous composer)made music that sounded like making trance (and sometimes techno!) played by a real orchestra. Try: Steve Reich-"Different Trains" Steve Reich-"Early Works" Philip Glass-"Qoyanisqatsi" Philip Glass- "Symphonies no.2 and 3" Philip Glass- "Glassworks" John Adams-"On The Transmigration of Souls" Well, there i gave you some more avant-gardy solutions to trance and EDM in general. Well you know i used to like trance very much and i kinda found myself in a similar position. I feel that the genres i mention have something in common. Try Amazon or other places for samples of these things! Good luck in further musical explorations.

omg thank u!

recomendations that I haven't tried yet, this is friggin fantastic!

To me the trend that formed around the Gabriel and Dresden songs around 2003 or so was what I felt had kept trance alive during those years. I always saw that sound as something that had saved trance from extinction, at least for that brief moment before McProg replaced it as the sound that all the clubs were pushing. I enjoyed the Gabriel and Dresden music very much including beautiful things and ATRC and the like. I think ATRC has some neat inspiration to it, maybe it is just all in my head, but to me there is an interesting contradiction in the song. Most of your songs about rolling on extasy are so overwhelming, they take the disneyland approach to pleasing people, which means that they are sooooo busy, there is so much stimulation in them that it is nearly inpossible to get sad or bored. But As the rush comes was no ordinary disneyland trance track, complete with busyness and overwhelming you with its sounds. The song was very noticably NOT BUSY, only one synth and some drums, so beautifly clear, you dont find many songs about extasy that are so bare, but somehow it still managed to sorround you and overwhelm when you heard it, that is why I still consider that song special, the armin van buuren remix simply added the disneylandish sounds back to it.

I had alot of fun partying towards the end of 2003 thanks to that gabriel and dresden sound, it was a very magical time and I hate to admit but I havent had as much fun partying since every song started having a coldharbour remix.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You cannot seriously claim ATRC actually has somehow more intelligent/inventive lyrics & melody than any of that pop drivel you "hate". They didn't even bother writing proper lyrics to it, ffs! It's just some random bird picked off the street wailing a couple of lines she could think of (and surprise surprise, they're about drugs!) and then they added a 5-note supersaw sweep over it. That's your "FUCK YEAH! FINALLY!" right there!

I understand your point of view, and Motorcycle's - ATRC release wasn't nearly as aspiring as the other releases I mentioned. I know that Jes's lyrics and vocals aren't nearly as good as someone like Sarah McLachlan or Evanescence and I do know the song was about drugs even though I would never do it or recommend it to anyone. The reason I said FU*K YEAH was because that was the first time I actually heard a trance track on a very popular radio station. ATRC was a very catchy tune to me but that my opinion, I never said this one had great lyrics, but it wasn't super cheese like most of lasgo's and milk inc. releases. Just read my old post and check out the link, you'll see what I mean.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 It really makes me wish I was lucky enough to be a part of some musical following that hasnt been corrupted by its own success... And the circle of bitching will continue through eternity... I for one wish we could just all peacefully coexist instead of saying that one persons music is ruining the scene for another person, nobody is forcing anyone to listen to their music.

+1

We're all on these boards because we love EDM, be it any of it's styles. Animosity breaks out when we break it down into debates on narrow subjects. It's not just the EDM scene either, you find the same debates in any music genre. It's impossible to avoid it though, because as Zombie0915 said, it's all cyclical.

Nothing against this thread though, I think it's a good idea. I guess it's just certain reactions to it.

IMO,there isnt ONE particular song that destroyed dance music. It happened over time, as one got released people released similar idea's and it just grew to shit. 2005 is a shitty year for dance music really, but thats my opinion.

People are ignorant when it comes to music, they hear one song by like DJ Sammy and they involve the entire dance scene with him. Another thing that pisses me off is how people associate all forms of dance music with "techno". For the love of God the majority of the little wankers that say "OMGZ I LOVE TECHNO" dont even know what techno sounds like. They think its the usual UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ, cheesey sound.

It pisses me off.

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Originally posted by jupiterone IMO,there isnt ONE particular song that destroyed dance music. It happened over time, as one got released people released similar idea's and it just grew to shit.

Agree mostly. And the songs that destroy EDM a lot are vocal trance tunes (ahem: songs). Vocal trance as such *can* be Trance and good EDM as well. The Blank & Jones tune from my sig is vocal trance and it is well done. However, it depends on the way how the vocals are arranged. Vocal trance can easily sound like Pop (or NeoPop). For example Lasgo. In cases like this I ask myself: where is the difference between Vocal Trance and Pop?

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Originally posted by jupiterone It pisses me off.

Me too.

Children.

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Originally posted by digitul punk Your saying these tracks ruined trance?? Dude you have got me kidding me.

I reply to the BT - Dreaming track. I dont know all the facts specifiaclly. Lets keep in mind though, BT I think made that track in 1998. It was entirley created with softsynths, which really helped revolutionize software composition. I dont remember much Electronic music being produced with soft synths before then. 'Dreaming' had much more than the typical trance or electronic song back in that time, still today too! Seeing BT perform this past summer was a pleasure, when he played 'Dreaming' is a sight to see, amazing to hear. and at the height of the breakdown, with the stutter and all that madness, then the kick and everything came back in, I had NEVER seen a crowd react the way they did. Out of seeing Oakenfold playing all of his classics, Luke Fair doing sexy house, Dieselboy with the pumpin MC, even Mr. Fontaine talkin whatever about progressive, etc. etc. etc. , the dreaming track defined that night, and has a definition in electronic music history one way or another.

FYI - I was happened to by browsing my iTunes radio stationes, tuned into Top/40 pop. On Club 977 'The Hits Channel' I am listening right now to some sort of remix/smash up: Paul van Dyk vs. Tiesto - For an Angel/Silence ---- I have to say... Its very cheesy, with that horrible sounding, non realistic synth.

Duran Duran - Ordinary World 1993

Alpha Breed - Epic Future
Aurora - Ordinary World (Above & Beyond Remix)
Orion - Eternity
Traveller - Bright Sign (Trance Mix)
Active Sight - Out Of Our Lives
Factoria - A Legends Legacy
Marcos & Jk Walker - Apache 7
Lingen & Moore - Passion (Robert Nickson Vocal Mix)
Ian van dahl - i can't let you go
armin van buuren - serenity

There are probably more, but they all have the "same" lead...

And thats whats wrong with trance

There's not a shittier mainstream menace than Sandstorm.

What song has had the most detrimental effect on trance & electronic music?

quote:

Originally posted by WirelessEyes Sasha - Xpander

????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Originally posted by WirelessEyes 'Anacrutity ... Negative.....' remember that song? Sasha - Xpander BT - Dreaming & Flaming June All I can think of for now

This Makes no Sense, Can�t Understand.

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Now I'm really surprised no one's mentioned Crazy Frog yet. Like I said, cheese isn't nessessarily a bad thing, but jeeze, there are limits! This song is just purely idiotic - and every copy in existance should be burned and the remains sprinkled with holy water. And don't even get me started about the video! Ugh.

damn right

quote:

Originally posted by WirelessEyes I reply to the BT - Dreaming track. I dont know all the facts specifiaclly. Lets keep in mind though, BT I think made that track in 1998. It was entirley created with softsynths, which really helped revolutionize software composition. I dont remember much Electronic music being produced with soft synths before then. 'Dreaming' had much more than the typical trance or electronic song back in that time, still today too! Seeing BT perform this past summer was a pleasure, when he played 'Dreaming' is a sight to see, amazing to hear. and at the height of the breakdown, with the stutter and all that madness, then the kick and everything came back in, I had NEVER seen a crowd react the way they did. Out of seeing Oakenfold playing all of his classics, Luke Fair doing sexy house, Dieselboy with the pumpin MC, even Mr. Fontaine talkin whatever about progressive, etc. etc. etc. , the dreaming track defined that night, and has a definition in electronic music history one way or another. FYI - I was happened to by browsing my iTunes radio stationes, tuned into Top/40 pop. On Club 977 'The Hits Channel' I am listening right now to some sort of remix/smash up: Paul van Dyk vs. Tiesto - For an Angel/Silence ---- I have to say... Its very cheesy, with that horrible sounding, non realistic synth.

Lol indeed.. I love BT's music - honestly I think he's one of the most gifted artists (both technically and musically) if not THE gifted musician in the whole music business.

BUT we're talking about tracks that ruined the trance scene not defined it.

i think one thing that is bringing trance down is the over produced sounds coming from the asot trance label just because it seems like theyre all the same thing. i think that people are trying to create the same style and sound in their own productions these days and that trance is losing some of its originality.

sure they got some good ones but please. it seems like every song is the same thing rehashed. like every producer shares the same preset sounds. i like being able to tell a producer when i listen to the track.... but gimme some variety at least.

sorry about the whinning. the easy answer is to go to a different label and turn the other way. i just got to look harder now.

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Originally posted by basd Yet you mention Filo & Peri in your signature.

Not even CLOSE to the aformentioned, C'MON

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Originally posted by eRRaTiK what track(s) can we blame for the start of the ASOT revolution?

Let the "revolution" continue

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Originally posted by digitul punk Lol indeed.. I love BT's music - honestly I think he's one of the most gifted artists (both technically and musically) if not THE gifted musician in the whole music business.

Also recall he's gifted in money making as well.
After all he produced for N'Sync.

I for one, refuse to spin his post-MISL crap at all anymore...

Speaking about a different thing, ATRC has to be one of my most beloved tunes of all time. It's really a shame it got so overplayed, but so did X-Pander and by no means do I consider any of these tracks to be a blatant example of making trance music garbage.

Here in Mexico City, the destruction of the concept "Trance" can be traced back to a very famous Acapulco club (Paladium) where a f*ckin' g@y "aztec" idiot danced half-naked all covered in silver painting to the rhythm of:

------
666 - 6th Gate (Dance with the Devil)
------

People went nuts about it... I believe they were all american spring breakers under the age of 18 and their mexican counterparts, which has led to the fact that nowadays you can still hear that piece of royal shit played in many mainstream clubs and even some "EDM" parties... whenever that happens, I leave the place immediately.

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Originally posted by Metronome Also recall he's gifted in money making as well. After all he produced for N'Sync. I for one, refuse to spin his post-MISL crap at all anymore... Speaking about a different thing, ATRC has to be one of my most beloved tunes of all time. It's really a shame it got so overplayed, but so did X-Pander and by no means do I consider any of these tracks to be a blatant example of making trance music garbage. Here in Mexico City, the destruction of the concept "Trance" can be traced back to a very famous Acapulco club (Paladium) where a f*ckin' g@y "aztec" idiot danced half-naked all covered in silver painting to the rhythm of: ------ 666 - 6th Gate (Dance with the Devil) ------ People went nuts about it... I believe they were all american spring breakers under the age of 18 and their mexican counterparts, which has led to the fact that nowadays you can still hear that piece of royal shit played in many mainstream clubs and even some "EDM" parties... whenever that happens, I leave the place immediately.

ha i remember when i used to like those 666 wankers. a schoolmate stole my 666 CD and i chased the guy for it for like 2 years. nowadays i'm happy he got that piece of crap

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Originally posted by Metronome Also recall he's gifted in money making as well. After all he produced for N'Sync. I for one, refuse to spin his post-MISL crap at all anymore...

He produced for N'Sync when N'Sync approached him a couple of times after being rejected 2 to 3 times. And the track he produced "pop" doesn't exactly sound poppy either. Your telling me that if you had an opportunity to produce for N'Sync you wouldn't?? I produce music as a hobby and I sure as hell would jump up to that oppportunity in a heartbeat. I don't think anyone in their right mind would pass up anything like that especially if he/she is producing electronic music. That right there is publicity to the max and a great way to get your name out there production wise. As fas as post MISL tracks go.. I'd say listen to his stuff again then and make a judgement on whether tracks like Knowledge of Self and Paris are good or not.

Regarding the topic.. I believe we (trance listners) need to chill out for a second. We gotta realize the fact that everyone has anything/everything to say about every track that comes out. People want newer sounds.. a newer sound breaks out .. then people start bitching about how other producers start imitating the sound. I mean common for cry out loud .. we need to give the producers a break too .. they are not geniuses - there is no way in hell that every track or every other track even is gonna be mindblowing - I'd say goodluck finding a genre like that. The Producers are just like us trying to make things better or earn their living (except for the ones that put out cheesey shit like lasgo and whatever the fuck not). If people think they can do better in production then go ahead and give it a try. Most people I came across wanting to give production a try were just staring at the seqeuncer screen not knowing where to start.
I'm not sayin that every shitty single should be spared by critical judgement but I think we should ease up a little bit on the over analitical judgement of every tune out there nowadays.

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Originally posted by TheVrk Not even CLOSE to the aformentioned, C'MON

I honestly can't see why Filo & Peri are so much better than the acts you've mentioned before.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You cannot seriously claim ATRC actually has somehow more intelligent/inventive lyrics & melody than any of that pop drivel you "hate". They didn't even bother writing proper lyrics to it, ffs! It's just some random bird picked off the street wailing a couple of lines she could think of (and surprise surprise, they're about drugs!) and then they added a 5-note supersaw sweep over it. That's your "FUCK YEAH! FINALLY!" right there!

Haha yeah, +1.

Suggesting that ATRC's lyrics are good is just unbelievable. Maybe I've been listening to Radiohead for too long or something, but if ATRC is an example of "good lyrics" then trance really has nothing going for it. It's a shame.

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Originally posted by Cobalt Children - inadvertantly founded a decade of pop-driven drivel Out Of The Blue - established the Dutch epic trance model Burned With Desire - merged Dutch to vocal eurotrance, "the final betrayal"; pure antithesis of trance as a concept

Hmmmm.... some very valid points there.

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