New DJ how much should i ask to be paid?

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Posted by Allied Nations on Nov-10-2005 04:49:

Posted by Zack Roth on Nov-10-2005 05:37:

quote:
Originally posted by Derivative
very much agreed.

basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it.

the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work.

if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else.

a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing.

i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it.

i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

well said.

I understand that djs invest money in becoming a dj....buying music, equipment etc... and its always nice to see a return on that money spent. But if a bedroom dj, someone just starting out in his local scene is asked to play a gig and he immediately asks what the pay is, his priorities (in my opinion) are way off.

There is a pretty defined DJ hierarchy in the scene today...the more established djs get booked as headlinders and get paid the most money and play the peaktime slots, because they are the draw. A kid just starting out has to pay his dues, start at the bottom and work their way up to a place where people actually know who they are and are willing to pay money to hear you play.

As a promoter / dj so far, I have not thrown a party with the primary goal of making money...my goal is to throw a great party, period, and I'd like to break even. I will not name names, but I am currently dealing with a contract for an upcoming party next month with a dj who is in the top half of the Top 100 djs that were just announced...this is a weekday party and we settled on a $600 fee...a top 50 DJ for christs sake! Now, compare this djs popularity...one of the 50 most peopular djs on EARTH, to some new guy who has played out once in his life at a lounge...Do the math and based on relative dj status, how much should that new guy get paid to open up for one of the most well known djs in the world? If someone offered me that gig I would pass out, let alone ask how much I was getting paid for it.

Posted by RJT on Nov-10-2005 05:39:

Posted by mzvirbulis on Nov-10-2005 12:34:

Posted by Basilf1 on Nov-10-2005 17:49:

Well If you say so. I wouldn't pretent to know your craft. I did say ASK not DEMAND even a small amount. I actually got into DJing because I love music and I don't expect to make money. Its quite the opposite I expect to lose money. And I am willing to work for free, because I am going to be spinning at a fundrasier for hurricane katrina. But if I found out that they were going to hire someone, but got me because I'll do it for free. I would have said no out of respect for the other DJ.

Posted by Allied Nations on Nov-11-2005 03:09:

quote:
Originally posted by zizack
well said.

I understand that djs invest money in becoming a dj....buying music, equipment etc... and its always nice to see a return on that money spent. But if a bedroom dj, someone just starting out in his local scene is asked to play a gig and he immediately asks what the pay is, his priorities (in my opinion) are way off.

There is a pretty defined DJ hierarchy in the scene today...the more established djs get booked as headlinders and get paid the most money and play the peaktime slots, because they are the draw. A kid just starting out has to pay his dues, start at the bottom and work their way up to a place where people actually know who they are and are willing to pay money to hear you play.

As a promoter / dj so far, I have not thrown a party with the primary goal of making money...my goal is to throw a great party, period, and I'd like to break even. I will not name names, but I am currently dealing with a contract for an upcoming party next month with a dj who is in the top half of the Top 100 djs that were just announced...this is a weekday party and we settled on a $600 fee...a top 50 DJ for christs sake! Now, compare this djs popularity...one of the 50 most peopular djs on EARTH, to some new guy who has played out once in his life at a lounge...Do the math and based on relative dj status, how much should that new guy get paid to open up for one of the most well known djs in the world? If someone offered me that gig I would pass out, let alone ask how much I was getting paid for it.

I'm guessing i get to design the flyer for it?

Posted by skip on Nov-11-2005 11:45:

wow! can't say i agree at all with Derivate or any of you agreeing with him. but i guess people are just different then and have different opinions/views. nothing that can/should be done about it. i agree with
Basilf1 on this one.
oh and one reason i like to keep djing as a hobby only is that i've never believed in making your hobby/favorite pasttime your work as then what usually happens is that the fun of it is lost at some point. but i guess that's just me then.

Posted by Derivative on Nov-11-2005 22:08:

nah thats not just you. everyone is entitled to their own opinion and many people are looking at the subject from a different angle. and i can relate to that.

but for some very fortunate people, their professional life is their hobby. thats a wonderful position to be in where you are making money from something you love doing but as with every profession ive had experience with - this is rare. many will grow to hate it i guess, but thats the selective process in action. only the people willing to stick it out will get a pay packet from their hobby.

but really the only DJs i have any kind of interest in are the ones that bring new stuff to the table. the ones that are personally speaking, enjoyable to watch and listen to. i met raiden (underground dnb producer) briefly about 2 years back - he was in the crowd at the joiners for some no name event and me and some others managed to ID him. an aquaintance (hatty) was spinning for free at the end of the night and played 2 raiden tunes (pitbull attack and fallin'). one of the nicest people you will ever meet with all the talent in the world. but yea, he did that when he was a nobody. and hatty is also going to go far because ive seen him practice for hours in a day. and he regularly works for free around the southampton area. i like his sets and so do my friends - we turned out to all of them to see him spin. it also helped that we knew he was going to play tunes we liked. so theres already a small crowd following him around town now. give it a couple of years and ill bet that guy is earning off it. but he put the work in and deserves every success. hes a big raiden fan too so getting to play out to one of his musical heroes must have been immense.

hearing it from raiden himself just reaffirmed that.

Posted by WirelessEyes on Nov-11-2005 23:17:

I flew from VA to CA to DJ. I had to pay for my plane ticket, lodging, just about everything. I didnt get paid for my 6 hour set. It gave me something great for my resume though. I was 16 at the time.

Posted by Pinokio on Nov-12-2005 01:00:

quote:
Originally posted by WirelessEyes
I flew from VA to CA to DJ. I had to pay for my plane ticket, lodging, just about everything. I didnt get paid for my 6 hour set. It gave me something great for my resume though. I was 16 at the time.

I think That's a Little Extreme, in this case you are paying money to play.

I won't mind playing for free at the beginning, although I would like to at least get 10 dollars a Day, or whatever, anyway I think I will enjoy it, but hey at least I need money for the Taxi!! jajaja.

If I were starting wich I want to int he future, I wouldn't deny gigs becasue they don't pay me, I think it's veyr important to play so people can get to know you, and anyway I think I will enjoy it to play in front of a crowd.

I've been listening electronusic music for years, and still I don't get gigs online, I just Want to practice enough untill I feel I can go out and make and outstanding performance.

I want to prepare to give people a good show, Hopefully I expect to be ready next year =).

Posted by Pinokio on Nov-12-2005 01:04:

I have a question

Do Normal Dj's get a decent economic life?

What I mean with normal are the Dj's that are not in the top 200 poll, but they might have residences at some clubs, but they are not famous worldwide.

With Decent economic , I dont Mean Driving a Ferrari, and havign ahouse in front of the beach,

Just normal stuff or living, clothes, food, bed =), know what I mean

Posted by Euphorica on Nov-12-2005 05:58:

id probably say no. most of them have to work other jobs.

Posted by Tony Morello on Nov-12-2005 11:52:

i work as a producer for the number 1 radio station in the city
that pays my bills, i dj really for the fun since i re-invest everything back into it

but that's covering employee pay, flyers/advertising, equipment payments/upkeep and various other expenses that come up on top of constantly updating my music

one of my good friends makes good money as a dj, but he's playing 2 clubs, top 40 & electronic, 4 nights a week on top of going to college and working as a manager at a tanning salon chain

if you want to be a working dj, prepare to work... very hard
but if you're persistant and work hard, it can pay off in the end

i'm only beginning to see my hard work paying off now after a couple years really into it

Posted by Allied Nations on Nov-12-2005 11:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Tony Morello
i work as a producer for the number 1 radio station in the city
that pays my bills, i dj really for the fun since i re-invest everything back into it

DJ for fun? You are a badass now stfu.

Posted by Nemesis44 on Nov-12-2005 14:59:

The other point that people are missing with this thread, either that or I'm hijacking it, is that there is a big learning curve to playing out.
In some respects it's nothing like playing at home and just because you can spin pretty well infront of your mates, doesn't mean that you will be able to pull it off infront of a crowd.

There is great value to be placed on spinning in a club in terms of what you learn. You can DJ for 5 years and then start playing out for 1 and I will almost guarantee that you will learn more in that year then you did in 5 at home.

And until you have been playing out to people you don't really know how to DJ, you just know how to mix.

Experience playing out is valuable and sometimes you have to weigh up what it will do for your overall DJing and not just in terms of short term compensation.

It's my guess that a lot of the guys talking about money and the right to be paid, don't play out, have been very lucky or live in a place where there isn't an overflow of DJs. If that statement is not correct then my most sincere apologies.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by Tony Morello on Nov-12-2005 20:49:

i'm looking at this from an established dj's perspective

i've paid my dues, i've played the free parties in weird locations on some of the shoddiest setups
(flimsy card tables DO NOT make good tables to set gear up on)

i've earned my place and the respect that comes with it in my scene

i've been around a bit and obviously i feel my time is worth something at this point

basically, what i've been trying to say

everyone is worth something, be it if you're making a couple thousand for a 2 hour set or a couple free drinks or free entry to a future event, everyone should be compensated in some way shape or form for the time and effort put into it unless of course if the event is a fundraiser or another non-profit event

yes, it's a totally different world outside of the bedroom

quote:

And until you have been playing out to people you don't really know how to DJ, you just know how to mix.

couldn't agree more

Posted by Abhay on Nov-19-2005 04:15:

this is a really awesome thread....

i'll read up and respond later...

i never ask for money in gigs (i've never mixed at a full-on night-club yet)... i always say just "pay me whatever you want"

i go by the honour system... this way is probably the way to go. as it puts the onus on ppl to pay u, but ur not telling them I WANT MONEY.

Posted by razzi on Nov-20-2005 22:25:

quote:
Originally posted by b i n k u n
if you start playing for free for some promoter...how are you going to ask for money the next time around? that promoter will just continue to look for free DJs then...especially if you did decent, then he'll think he can find other decent DJs for free and just give up on you.

start small, be it asking for small pay or free drinks from the bar, etc. but never let things slide because it will be that much harder to put your foot down the next time.

and dun be afraid to ask what your pay is, any decent promoter will have already worked out the budget for the dj fees, but won't necessarily tell you. just make sure you do so before the night begins. being stiffed is the worst feeling ever.

good post. i am NOT an advocate of playing for free, although i do know a bunch of people who are. the worst 'deal' i got for playing in a bar was free drinks that night, and access to the vip lounge any time i went to that club. i played there a few times, became friends with the residents/manager/bartenders, and after a while i started getting some pretty nice paychecks.

if you show to them that youre worth something, in the way you act, carry yourself, your confidence, they will most likely tell you that they can work out some sort of compensation, be it free stuff or pay.

never sell yourself short.

razzi.

Posted by b i n k u n on Nov-21-2005 10:53:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
There is great value to be placed on spinning in a club in terms of what you learn. You can DJ for 5 years and then start playing out for 1 and I will almost guarantee that you will learn more in that year then you did in 5 at home.

And until you have been playing out to people you don't really know how to DJ, you just know how to mix.

spot on with this...it's a whole 'nother world. being able to capture different crowds is something that takes a LONG time to perfect. i know i'm not cut out to be a full-time DJ and i totally respect those that are and can.

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
It's my guess that a lot of the guys talking about money and the right to be paid, don't play out, have been very lucky or live in a place where there isn't an overflow of DJs. If that statement is not correct then my most sincere apologies.

i guess i will have to plead guilty on this. i am very lucky to have come into contact with EDM in the US and the UK and be able to bring it back to my hometown (Taiwan) where there is an extreme lack of good local trance DJs. as expected, there does exist a big difference in the supply and demand of DJs as well as the level of talent.

however, while i totally understand why a DJ would play for free, be it cuz he loves the music or cuz its the only shot he has at showing the promoter what he has, i still stand by what i say...respect the occupation of a DJ and those that DJ. i'm not saying be a dick and ask for a paycheck before u have earned it, but whenever there is money involved, it is best to be professional about it.

it has become quite silly that a dj can earn upwards of 20,000 USD a nite for 2 hours, but if u are providing a service, u should get some sort of compensation. it could be money, drinks, or just a good network opportunity to meet someone in a place to help you...just dun let yourself get run over.

Posted by Allied Nations on Nov-21-2005 11:14:

quote:
Originally posted by b i n k u n

it has become quite silly that a dj can earn upwards of 20,000 USD a nite for 2 hours,

Not if the market will bear it.

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